That IVY Mentality drives me nuts - why IVY doesn't = $$

While I’ve found this forum to be extremely helpful during my high school years and college application process, although I find I continue to run into the same mindset no matter what the subject. A simple statement from one poster sums it up
“well the best kids wouldn’t apply there”. Now what these posters are insinuating and at times directly saying is that “the best kids” would only apply to an IVY league or top rated school and if you are applying to a school ranked under 10 or 20 your “not one of the best kids”. Please define for me what “the best kids are”. I find this mindset sad and find myself thinking these are parents living through their children because if your kid is “one of the best kids” then you must be “one of the best parents” also. Thank god my parents do not think like this … but many of my friends parents do. I find it insulting when I speak to parents of my friends (one in particular) who know my class rank and ACT scores and say the schools I’m applying to are “beneath” me cause I can do better. I love the schools I’ve applied to and would not be interested in applying anywhere else.

This mindset seems to be saying that top ranked schools equal success … and well, if you apply and accept a school that is ranked lower than 20, get ready for a life of mediocrity. Not every student who has IVY grades finds a fit at an IVY school. Not every kids who applies to an IVY school is going to be accepted to an IVY school and IVY schools don’t equal big paychecks.

My parents have taught me that success and high income comes from dedication, long hours and hard work not by what rank you school is on US News and World Report.

I’ve got no idea what you’re talking about.

Every successful person in the history of EVER has gone to an Ivy. Do you really expect a… STATE school to give an adequate education? The horror!

According to the reputable folks over at The Onion, a private education will open 16.3 more doors in a graduate’s lifetime… that’s a lot!

Now that I’m done with sarcasm, you’re completely correct. What you DO is more important than where you GO, and it’s more about personal fit than prestige.

Many students apply, are accepted to, attend, and thrive at Ivies. And there are many students with Ivy-caliber stats who choose to attend state schools or LACs and have wonderful academic experiences at those types of schools, as well. It is all about fit, and where you can be your absolute best self.

My W went to a near-Ivy that last year had 30,000 applicants, and rejected approximately 25,000 of them. I went to one of the CTCL LACs that last year had roughly a 50% admit rate (and then to a state school for a graduate degree). We both received incredible educations. Our D is applying to a range of schools (reaches/matches/safeties), all of which she has visited and all of which have excellent programs in her areas of interest.

I have personally observed that when it comes up in casual conversation, my W’s degree from a prestige university does have a certain “wow” factor in some instances. In general, though, most people are more concerned with what a person has done with their education once they have received it.

So, to answer your question specifically, I don’t know who “the best kids” are. But the best decisions on where to attend are made with careful thought, thorough research, and in consultation with people who know you best.

Are you guys serious.

It’s obvious who the best kids are. Someone who has made the effort to pursue research, have relevant volunteer service, etc. all while excelling academically at a public magnet like Stuyvesant is obviously better than the standard “robotics club” application from his/her town high school.

By any measure of actual competency, student 1 is OBJECTIVELY better.

I think you are missing my point about the post though. Even if you think those are the best kids entering college … They don’t equate to “the most successful” students after college so it is silly to act as though going to any particular college should gives you a “golden ticket” in life. As if every Ivy league student makes millions.

My mom was a party animal at WVU and my dad was an average student at Widener. No amazing academic records to speak of. My mom started her own web design/marketing company and sold it for well into the 7 figures 5 years ago. She and my dad now work together at his business. He is one of the top 5 largest customer home builder in our area… his company builds 60 to 120 homes a year. Maybe because they both had such basic college educations and became so successful they always told me pick a school you will love with all your heart, want to return even after you graduate and and have a passion for as an alumni. They always stressed the work after college is what makes you successful.

I have people all the time making rude comments that I applied to schools “beneath me” … although these are schools I really loved.

Although Michael Dell went to University of Texas Austin so I think I’m in pretty good company since I applied and got in. I guess Michael Dell wasn’t one of the “best kids” either.

Right. Obviously the school you apply to doesn’t HINDER your success in most cases, but some schools ,especially top schools in a field for which you are passionate, like proteomics, will simply be a better choice.

It is true that successful people will succeed no matter where they go to college and that unsuccessful people will not success no matter where they go. That said, top schools tend to admit top students, so they are usually quite successful. It is a positive feedback loop. They are the most successful students -> they go to a school with the best resources -> they have the best opportunities -> they are the most successful students. There’s a reason almost 11% of the America’s billionaires went to Harvard. Also, for certain fields, such as Banking, there is a huge benefit to attending a top tier institution. That doesn’t mean you NEED to go to a top school to be successful, but odds are if you do go to a top school you are more likely to be successful.

(assuming for simplicity’s sake that financial success=success)

I usually despise charlatans like Malcolm Gladwell but I believe he has good points on Ivy League and college admissions in general:

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2005/10/10/getting-in
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2011/02/14/the-order-of-things

As for entrebusecon’s assertion that “almost 11% of the America’s billionaires went to Harvard,” that’s also partially due to the fact that a lot of people who went to Harvard came from billionaire families to begin with. Not everyone starts off on an equal playing field as soon as they graduate. I’m not saying that Ivy League schools don’t bestow certain advantages in some circumstances, but don’t make the mistake of confusing correlation with causation. The fact of the matter is that most Ivy League graduates will not go on to be famous and/or billionaires.

Harvard didn’t make its students intelligent any more than a gynecologist makes her patients female.

It’s truly what you do at your school that counts. Ivy league institutions can provide a lot of opportunities that larger state schools simply cannot for each student because of resource limitations, but it’s up to you to take them.

I’m glad I found this. I applied ED2 to a school I felt was the best “fit” for me and have been feeling a tiny bit of regret because it isn’t as selective as some of the other schools on my list.