Thats exactly it. Its frustrating. It seems like a way for teachers to arbitrarily adjust the grades to whatever they want. This is not my daughter’s only A-. Its just the only one I find frustrating. Obviously, I am not in class with her, so its possible that she is a shy and retiring kid in this one class, but I know her. She is a very enthusiastic participant. She never gets less than full credit for participation. Apush is a difficult and demanding class. D did so much work to make sure all her grades were in the A range and now gets knocked down for something she feels she can’t control. I’m not going to go storming into the school, but I think it can’t hurt for D to ask about it.
In any case, it certainly does seem unfair to kids who are shy or quiet.
D has doctor shadowing, hospital volunteering, medical research… all of it. I have thought about what would happen if she changes her mind in college after getting into one of these programs. But I don’t think that will be a problem. All of the ones she is applying to are decent, reputable undergraduate schools in their own right. She can always change gears.
My kid received 2 B+s and many A minuses (actually around 35 to 40% of his classes) and in fact was a master of barely pulling out A minuses from B+ level because in some semesters, he was in danger of getting all B+s unless he did very well in final tests or projects; but that did not stop him from getting into Stanford and all other schools. He also had only 33 on ACT even though he surprisingly made NMF in CA. I actually thought all these made him a more interesting applicant. We joked that no one would consider him a perfect Asian American student applicant so he had a better chance to get admitted; and sure enough, that’s what happened.
You can go to not so good UG and still be a great doc and vice versa.
Different take - I like the participation grades. Of course if a student has an issue like depression, there has to be concessions for that. But otherwise, kids need to learn to contribute and participate, even the quiet ones. About midway through a term one of mine had an F in participation, pulling that shiny A way down to a B- or maybe even a C. Usually participation was never an issue, but they admitted to not really being into this class. Well get into it, or get a crappy grade. Participation can be the easiest points to get. I don’t enjoy my meetings at work everyday, but I can’t choose to not be involved and just sit there like a bump on a log.
Grading scales at high schools are all so different. That is why there is the High School Profile that accompanies each application. It shows the grading scale. At one school a 93-100 is an A (assigned 4.0) and 90-92.9 is an A- (assigned 3.7). At others 90-100 is indicated by A at 4.0. At others, it shows A- or A, but given a 4.0. The college AOs know this. I actually heard that getting a grade lower than a straight A might show that the kid is “normal”…where a kid has a record of straight As. The problem these days is kids having straight As and then going to college and expecting the same. Huge wake up call Do not fret if she doesn’t get an A.
I understand what you are saying. Hopefully, when my D talks to the teacher she will get an idea of what she was doing or not doing that affected her grade. Possibly, its something she needs to be aware of and this will turn out to be an important learning experience. Its not what I am predicting, but I may be pleasantly surprised.
I also understand what you mean by participation being an important skill. It might help the shy kids more if there were some kind of format to follow. IE: Kids need to answer a certain number of questions each week, etc. My daughter says she raises her hand, but the teacher rarely calls on her and this is also frustrating. Of course, this may be untrue, but it does happen. Sometimes a teacher will inadvertently be drawn to some students and not others. Of course, that is true in life too – so maybe just another life lesson.
I don’t like participation points as it could be easily abused by teachers who tend to play favorites. (Disclaimer: My DS used to be the one who would speak out without being called out, so too much participation often is accused of him, bad manner aside, I am a true believer that “the moment you open your mouth, you close you ears”). And participation often unfairly “punish” students who are shy/more introverted.
One thing I liked about his HS was they had many presentation projects, and this helped our initially shy and reserved kid become a pretty good presenter, so I did think he learned some useful skills. But I am a believer whether you are shy or outspoken, you need to participate and share in classes. After all, colleges or societies don’t just look for kids who are smart but smart kids who are willing to share. Having said this, I don’t think participation should make up more than 20% of grade in the class.
@galentjill. The best revenge is getting a 5 on the APUSH exam!
Seriously, beyond her approaching the teacher to see how she might improve, it sounds like this is beyond her/your control. One A- is unlikely to make a difference in her admissions chances for these highly competitive programs. It sounds as though she has the requisite shadowing, etc. in the medical field to make a case for herself as a convincing and committed candidate, which is probably more relevant to her chances than an A/A- in a history class.
I get it, though. My second child is interested in some ambitious schools and competitive scholarships and my level of, um, “interest” in her progress has increased although I’m trying to keep it to myself!
As a side note, my kid’s school gives them straight percentage grades, which I love. Then there is less at stake between a 92/93 and if your kid crushes a class with a 99, it is there to see.
You have to draw the line somewhere. Personally, I liked the way our high school did it in New York State, where we used to 100 point scale. You get more granularity that way.
Ha! Tell me about it. Once S19 received his 1560 SAT score, the stakes went way up. I couldn’t tell you who any of his teachers were last year, but now that he’s targeting a tippy top school, I’ve been all over the kid. He’s sitting at an A- in AP Lang and for his last assignment, his Dad and I were freaking out about him making sure he didn’t tank it and drop his grade down to a B+ I’m regretting prohibiting him from taking AP Human Geo in 9th grade because I thought it would be too much stress, and it turned out to be an easy class and now his not having taken it affects his class rank (trying to get to that magic top 5% number). With this last assignment he said it was freaking him out that all of a sudden I care about his grades when I never did before. Ugh.
On the plus side, his participation grade hasn’t been entered yet, and that’s usually very high. Lol.
Time to take a deep breath. They will end up where they are supposed to be.
Vent away. Participation points are super subjective. My d22 has been furious the entire year with her French teacher for not giving full participation points. My d had said she participates more in that class than any other, more than almost anyone in the class. Her participation is quality participation to… as in on topic, makes sense and correctly answers questions. She had her oral speaking test with the teacher and the teacher asked my d what d thought she should get for participation. D said 100%. Teacher asked if d had noticed anyone else participating more… d says yes, one kid, the one who never raises his hand and just shouts out questions and comments all class. The teacher said that is the one she had planned to give 100% to for participation this term.
Would have been great at the beginning of the year if the teacher had just let kids know to be rude and loud if they wanted full participation points.
D19 took chorus in 6th grade and one reason she didn’t take it again was that the teacher seemed to cap the grade at 94% for anyone who wasn’t a stand out soloist singer. It just ruined the experience for her.
@websensation Is your son really an example of an unhooked kid with a 33 and less than perfect GPA getting into Stanford? If this is really an example of holistic admissions working as it should? Honestly, i would love to hear more about it because it would be an example of how I hope college admissions works.
“Would have been great at the beginning of the year if the teacher had just let kids know to be rude and loud if they wanted full participation points.”
@momtogirls2 - It’s French class, shouldn’t that be understood? :)) (I guess I’m still not over that rude waitress in Paris from 25 years ago)
If it helps at all (and for my kid, it wouldn’t, because kids, man), the consensus as I understand it is that the kids who get into and are successful in BSMD programs are kids who are virtually certain to have less expensive / higher ranked options available to them for both undergrad and med school. Some kids really like the certainty of BSMD, but some find themselves having to choose giving up a guaranteed acceptance in hopes of getting in somewhere they feel to be a better fit.
We have talked about this too. Of course, its all premature until the decisions come in a year from now. My kid is definitely in the “certainty” camp. That said, she won’t be applying to any BSMD programs where I think she will be miserable and we are not following the general consensus of applying to 15 programs. She will be applying to 4 or 5 that meet other criteria that make them at least a decent fit. If none of them come in (which is likely) she will have plenty of undergrad choices she really likes.
My D2 thinks her “smudges” (lower grades in French, a fair number of A-s) helped her applications. She didn’t seem like an automaton. Got in everyplace, including top ranked schools. More on the strength of her “march to her own drummer intellectual” personality than anything – interested and interesting showed up strongly in her ECs and recs.
I feel like a broken record – I tell it all the time. She got in everyplace she applied, including a top 5 ranked university (which she didn’t end up picking – she picked the school that fit the best, and was very happy there).
Freshman year, D had A+ for Drama listed in school loop - internal grade reporting software. When final grades were released, it showed A- instead of A+. To this day I don’t know if it was a typo while transferring grades from one internal system to the other, or D did so poorly on final presentation that she brought her grade down to A-. Since she is not involved in theater in any way and did it just to fulfill the arts requirement for graduation, I thought it won’t make a difference either way.
Do not fret if she doesn’t get an A.