First some background: back when my daughter was only applying to nice schools where she was likely to get merit aid and almost guaranteed admission, I was the most laid back parent around. I never stressed about her grades, never pushed about extra curriculars and was thoroughly enjoying the college search process.
Well, D has a dream of getting into a BSMD program. I thought it was almost entirely impossible so I didn’t think much about it or let it impact our choices or behavior. Then she took the ACT again and raised her score from 33 to 34. Its not a huge jump but 34 seems to be sort of an invisible threshold for many of these programs. She already has great medical related ECs and community service and all that. Suddenly the fantasy has a tiny chance of being realistic and now I’ve become the grade obsessed helicopter mom I never wanted to be!
D informed me that she is heading towards an A- in APUSH this quarter because the teacher is dinging her in class participation! Her essays, tests and homework grades are all A, but this teacher is bringing her down on this??? Its killing me. Its also killing me that although her average is close 92.3 and she needs 93 for an A, this will show up on her transcript as 3.7 vs. 4.0. How is the fair??? Why can’t the colleges just look at the actual grades???
And yes, for these crazy competitive programs, it does matter. So here I am, fuming over grades. I have to keep reminding myself that even if she had perfect grades the chances are still minimal. But still…
"the teacher is dinging her in class participation! Her essays, tests and homework grades are all A, but this teacher is bringing her down on this??? "
I know you are venting but I just have to say that participation is about the easiest thing ever to work on and alter. Not sure how many weeks your daughter has left but now is the time to kick participation into overdrive.
Also, the difference between an A and an A- in one single class will not be the deciding factor in whether your daighter receives acceptances or rejections to the colleges and programs she applies to. Don’t let yourself go down the destructive path of that kind of obsessive thinking.
This happened to my older D once and she did push back. Teacher gave her a B for class participation and calculated that as an 83, the lowest numerical grade for a B. But after pleading her case which was stong because she had scored a high A on the final, the teacher while keeping the participation grade ar a B, used an 85 which was enough to bump the year end grade up.
@doschicos thanks for the thoughts. Honestly, I’m not sure whats going on this class. My D is generally an enthusiastic class participant. She has never gotten less than an A in that. I’m not sure whats going on in this class though. I really do want to limit the obsessive thinking though. Its why I’m venting here and trying not to do it in front of D!
@wisteria100 I think D will speak with the teacher. A bump like your daughter got would push the grade from A- to A. I think this is also a lesson in self advocacy. There is no harm in politely asking.
If your D plans to speak to the teacher she may want to focus the conversation more on how she can improve her level of class participation over the last few weeks of school rather than asking for a higher grade.
@lookingforward I know! I always feel so badly for the kids freaking out about one A- and here I am doing the same thing. Honestly, its not the A- itself but the fact that its coming from class participation. It feels so arbitrary. She is also really disappointed because she feels like she has been doing all she can in that area. In the end, I’m sure it won’t be the deciding factor in her admission or rejection, but it feels like her grades and test scores are just balanced on the bubble. Also, I swear, I’m freaking out here and not in real life. So thank you all for listening.
In terms of direct involvement, she has it - tons of it. The thing is, she has it because its what she loves to do. None of it was designed to get her in anywhere. At some point we realized that she had built a record that could get her in and now she is suddenly dreaming of it. I’m working on keeping expectations low at the same time as trying to maximize chances. Its a difficult line to walk.
Class participation is super important at my child’s school (in one class, not fully participating can take you from an A to a C!) and I think it can be very difficult for shy kids…or if there are some real jerks in the class to snicker at “dumb” remarks. Was this something she knew bout from the beginning? Maybe there is a way she can pull that part of her grade up in the last few weeks to stand out before final grades are submitted?
In any event, an A- is a very good score and it is unlikely to hurt her overall application.
Back away slowly. What if your D doesn’t get into one of those programs? Her odds are very slim no matter what her grades, and logically you know that. She can still go to med school. Still be a doctor. Or maybe she will change her mind, and do something else with her life. In the long haul, she’ll be fine. At least you know you are becoming “that parent”. That is the first step to stopping it.
@intparent I know the odds and she knows the odds. I’m actually annoying her by reminding her of the odds in my vain attempt to keep her expectations low. She says she understands, but in her eyes I see how much she wants it. But yes, admitting I have a problem is part of the solution.
My son received two "B"s by the college application time – both extremely unfairly, far worse than your case – yet in the end these two "B"s made no difference in the admission outcomes. The point is, relax and allow your kid to take charge of the situation, not you. Let her make the decision as to what to do about her situation.
D2 had the dream and it was nice, sure. But this mom knew kiddo’s field would be psych, not medicine, and counseling, not peds. I just had to wait for her to take that first psych class.
I agree that talking to the teacher about how to improve her class participation… is the way to go. You also have to recognize that some students are more outspoken in class than others… embrace your daughter for who she is ( not saying you are not). Some kids ALWAYS lead the conversation… while others soak it in and participate on their own time. The world needs both.
Next I will give you some advice: it’s time to chill ( easier said than done) and pull back a little. She can apply to some BSMD programs and maybe get in, maybe not. They are super… super competitive - my daughter was invited to apply to one and noticed that almost every applicant had undergraduate research… and the application specifically asked about it. If your D doesn’t get in, she can apply to medical school the traditional route. This will give her time to craft a competitive application. Also recognize that your daughter will change over the next few years… maybe she will stay in medicine, maybe she won’t.
It’s hard to chill… but it will all work out. My D may go to med school… or maybe not. She tells me she intends to be a “change maker.” WT** is that? I have no clue… but I am 100% sure she will do it and I have learned to enjoy watching the process unfold ( I won’t lie…it can be tough).
I agree that admitting you are “that parent,” is the first step! =D>
An A- should not be killing you. It’s hard not to magnify every little thing. But, the A- in APUSH will not be a distinguishing feature in her application.
My kids routinely got dinged for lack of participation. I know it’s frustrating. But, it’s the teacher’s prerogative to value participation. Sometimes, it is seen as a way to help some kids boost their grade. And it’s fixable. It’s probably a good thing to practice since it pushes her out of her comfort zone. Consider it a growth opportunity : ).
I would suggest to her that she force herself to raise her hand a few times each class period.
“Why can’t the colleges just look at the actual grades?”
I am pretty sure that colleges do look at the actual grades.
GPA is computed so differently at different high schools that it is basically meaningless. For example, some high schools rate a 90 in a CP class as a 4.0. Where we live, a 97 in a CP class is an A+, but only counts as 3.7 towards the student’s GPA.
Most doctors did not attend a program like that. Students can major in anything and go to medical school. It doesn’t matter if she gets into the super competitive BS/MD program for her future goals. And as someone else said and others have implied, many kids want to be doctors but change their minds. Sometimes they don’t know that much about the work world and have watched tv medical shows. (Not saying that is the case with your daughter.) It might even be better NOT to get into a program that commits you so early to the medical path.
My son has been battling depression this year…something his dean, counselor, and teachers are all aware of. His English teacher decided that clinical depression is “just an excuse” for lazy and gave him a C in participation. All of his class work is a 100% (one 95%) …but she weighted the participation heavily so he is sitting at at low B right now. Fortunately my son went to the Counselor who I think (hope) will intervene. His top choice requires him to have a B+ in English each year and his teacher knows this. Frustrating.
Did your daughter shadow? My D shadowed at the pediatrician and did not love it. She said she spent half the day listening to coughs, and the other half of the day doing “insurance stuff.” It was eye opening for her and made her realize that that type of work was not for her… although they were busy all day, she did not particularly love it and did not find it as stimulating as she imagined ( although it obviously can be quite stimulating). She also shadowed at the obgyn … she was not permitted in the room while the actual exam was going on, but was permitted to be present for everything else ( discussions etc) and once again… did not enjoy it.
Last summer she worked at a major hospital and loved it… it really depends. And of course there is the issue of being in school… possibly until you are into your 30’s.
Your daughter may go full speed ahead with medicine, and never look back… or she may change her mind. It happens.
Don’t know whether this will make you feel better or not (probably not!). at my DS’ hs, the grading is based on a 6-point scale, so 94 is A-, DS has gotten a few B/B+ because his grades were 93/92. I don’t know whether these grades would become in the 80s if a more lenient grading scale was used (I would assume it wouldn’t have that huge an impact but people with more math brains might think differently). And I truly don’t understand the point of “translating” 100-point grade to letter grade then assign letter grade into the 4-point GPA (I grew up in a culture that only actual points (100) were used.
That being said, I doubt your D’s apush grade will make or break her bsmd dream. Vent away, relax, as I bet there will be more stuff to worry about soon.
That is the first step to stopping it.