Help: give me some reasons she should get A's in college

Parent Cafe
1

<p>Hello everyone. Well, today's the big day. AluD comes home for a few days. She's just finished her midterms. Grades look to be in the B+/A- range so far. Here's my question.</p>

<p>Do I care?</p>

<p>She had never gotten a grade other than an A in her life, except in PE when she got an A- because she refused to play soccer one day. Now here she is at Princeton and she is spending more time hanging out and having fun than ever in her life. And less time studying.</p>

<p>And I told her to do it:). Figuring all experience is good, and the time had come to experiment with not being the nerd.</p>

<p>But now that we see the results of partying - not that they are a disaster or anything, don't worry I'm not a COMPLETE maniac - I find myself a little uneasy.</p>

<p>I know if she wanted to be a doctor or a lawyer she should get top grades to go to a good med or law school. But I doubt either of those paths are what she wants. For any kind of business, even IB or consulting, as long as she went out and worked and got into a good B-school and did well there, she'd be OK. </p>

<p>So can someone please tell me what other reasons she needs to get As for? Other than because she loves the subject of course. </p>

<p>The missing piece of data all you smart people need is this. What does she want to do after school. And the thing is, she doesn't really know. And me, I can't help her, since I completely stumbled in my career and even now classmates from college when they find out what they do either drop their jaw in astonishment or start laughing. And while it always mattered that I had gone to Princeton I highly doubt anyone ever cared I graduated magna cum laude. </p>

<p>Psych is her favorite class hands down and the thing she wants to major in. So maybe she'd do grad school but who knows. </p>

<p>Help. Those of you further down the path, help a poor parent who has suddenly looked up and said to herself, OK, now what? While I struggled as all of us do to be a good parent in the phases to date, through whining and pouting and arguing and rudeness and grammar school and girls and boys and high school and more girls and more boys, now as she prepares to face the world I find I am lacking conviction. I don't know what guidance to give her as far as college grades go.</p>

<p>I find myself wanting to tell her that it's now her time to find her own goals and her own self, but I don't want to fail to give her facts on the impact of college grades just because of my ignorance.</p>

<p>Thanks in advance for any and all thoughts.</p>

2

<p>Alu:</p>

<p>There are so many issues involved here. First, A- and B+ are fine grades, especially for the first semester. Second, do you think the B+s are due to too much socializing or are they the natural consequence of being surrounded by students as excellent as she is?
3. Princeton has been in a deflationary mood, so your D is caught in that.
4. It's not unknown for profs to grade more harshly on midterms than on finals--to prevent students from being overconfident. Midterms are a bit of a wake-up call. For freshmen, it may work as a signal that it's time to buckle down and do the heavy lifting.
5. It depends what kind of courses she is taking. Would she be better off taking easier courses and getting easy As or taking more challenging and interesting courses but struggling a (tiny) bit? Each student reacts differently.
A couple of B+s on midterms will not hurt. So please don't start worrying about her chances for grad school now.</p>

3

<p>"Grades look to be in the B+/A- range so far"</p>

<p>Her grades sound fine to me. Yes, she is on track for graduate and professional programs.</p>

<p>I think that you should back off, find something unrelated to your D to put your time and energy into (Isn't there some volunteer work or a class that you'd like to do?") and let your D continue to fly. She's doing great!</p>

4

<p>Northstarmom --The scary thing is that I already work fulltime (except of course the time I spend posting on cc:)). And I'm already on the strategic planning committee for my kids' old grammar school:). I think I just need to exercise more...And yes, of course I need to back off. But that is what cc is for in the lives of cases like me. To provide the handcuffs and duct tape keeping me off my kids' backs. So far it's working acceptably. Especially since D is not shy about telling her mother when to leave it alone...</p>

<p>Marite -- It sounds from what she says that the classes are at the right level for her. She herself talks about not focusing on her studies much until midterm week and that it felt good to dive back in. As for point number two, that's the interesting question. I am not sure what grades she would be getting now, if she studied the way she did in high school, given that it's Princeton. I'm just wondering if there's any real-world-can't-go-back type reason to urge her to work that hard, given that there are many parental relationship and child responsibility type reasons to stay out of it.</p>

5

<p>She's doing great! I'd say nothing about grades for two reasons: 1) It is time for her to be in charge of that domain of her life and if you become the watch-bird now it become less clear when in college you give that role up
2) It is good to get some not-As in life sooner rather then later. I know way too many adults who became burdened by the sense they were required by life to have "all As" and it quickly underwrites a drive for perfection that really undermines good mental health (and usually then good relationships). To be happy and doing that kind of work in a seriously competetive insititution is definitely good-enough in life and I think should be celebrated. Once she sets her site on a career goal I'm sure the competetive focus will set in again-and highly ranked schools have plenty of interesting, successful students who had worse than B+ in their freshman year...Let her fly (and enjoy having her back in the nest).</p>

6

<p>Try to restrain........ALL kids I know at school are well aware of graduate school requirements, discuss it more than you could ever worry about it and have ideas that you aren't hearing about. The grades and social life sound just fine to me, nice that you graduated w/ honors and I'm bettin your daughter knows you did and will probably do the same. Don't apply pressure at this time, ice is what you need to apply.</p>

7

<p>From what I can tell, my D is in the B range and I am happy. I would be even happier if she were more towards the B+/A- range, but it is still earlier in the year. (Actually, I did not think she was supposed to get any grades first semester, but it appears the double major means she gets grades.)</p>

<p>The more I think of it the more I believe my D is right where she should be. If she started off with A's, that might mean she was not challenged enough. How would be maintain the motivation for 4 years?</p>

8

<p>Hi, Alumother. I think it's natural for you to worry a teeny bit that she's not getting all A's. However, it's important for kids to find balance in their lives and learn not to crumble if they get some B's. Many kids, especially those at HYPS, usually have been pushing themselves throughout high school and "playing the game". The important thing is that she's studying, making friends, joining in activities so she's "connected", and loving to learn for learning's sake (not necessarily for the grades). One of my kids, who was #1 in high school, is now at a top school. We are thrilled that's he's engaged in his classes, took up a new sport, and is trying totally new subjects. At first we worried about his mixed grades of A's and B's but he's totally happy and thrilled with his educational experience. As an aside, involvement in a completely new extracurricular activity led to leadership positions, new friends, starting a successful business, and a brand new/never considered area for work/graduate school. It's fun to watch these kids as they find themselves, and it will happen with your daughter.</p>

9

<p>Alu:</p>

<p>If the classes are right for her and it feels good to dive back into the work, she will do well for the rest of the semester. Plenty of freshmen spend the first few weeks enjoying the heady feeling of being in college. As I said, midterms are a wake-up call.<br>
I think the best thing to do with midterms is to treat them as learning experiences. Something you and she might discuss is whether the prof/TA gave good feedback, so that your D could see where she might done better. This kind of feedback is a useful guide for preparing for future tests. Was it the content--argument, evidence--or the presentation--organization, style--? But don't make her feel badly over a couple of B+s. These are good grades!</p>

10

<p>Your daughter's grades are fine. At DS's orientation at Boston University, parents were told NOT to expect their students to get all A's (BU is well known for grade deflation). The speaker said that A's are not liberally given out at the university, and that students and families should not expect that just because a student got all A's in HS that they would get all A's in college. My son says that he works for every single grade he gets there (A's and B's for him). He says the grading is fair, not inflated, and he feels he is earning his grades. I would guess, or hope, that Princeton would be dealing with grades similarly. I agree with the above poster who indicated that most of the students your D is surrounded by are students who came to Princeton with the same academic credentials as hers. PLUS for first semester freshman year, there is usually an adjustment to the rigors of college. Let it go...these are great grades.</p>

11

<p>My D would tell me "get a life, Dad." When she asks, I try to help. Otherwise, her own interests are what motivates her, not mine.</p>

12

<p>uh Alu, maybe you should get a dog or a cat!
She's doing fantastic for 1st semester P-ton; let her find her way.</p>

13

<p>I see absolutely nothing to worry about. Her grades are absolutely fine in a top quality school, and she sounds happy.</p>

14

<p>if she loves psych and wants to go to grad school, she needs to get mostly As- doctoral programs in clinical psychology (masters degrees in psych are pretty worthless) are EXTREMELY competitive (worse than med school), and wont have a chance at most schools with anything lower than a 3.6.</p>

15

<p>B+/A- at Princeton?! Sounds like she's doing pretty well, particularly for mid first semester freshman year. I can't imagine too many doors that would be closed to her, particularly with all the publicity P is getting about countering grade inflation. I honestly think you should be celebrating!</p>

16

<p>I agree. They are terrrific grades, especially at P. First term is so hard. Completing the core requirements is difficult. Later on, she'll br able to focus on whatever subjects she most likes, and wilol build rapport with professors in her major. Grad schools look at where a student comes from, more than just GPA. With all the professional schools in psychology churning out graduates, in 1/2 the time as PhD programs, one wonders if the scholrships to the latter are worth the extra years and intensity of study.</p>

17

<p>Alumother - get a grip! Those are fantastic grades for any freshman in college, but especcially Princeton. I had a friend whose daughter graduated from P with a solid B average and was admitted to one of the top medical schools in the country. And that was before grade deflation.</p>

<p>Also she's not in high school anymore. Half the high school students in this country have "A" averages in high school. College "A"'s are much harder to come by. I'd be thrilled if my kid had those kind of grades, especially at midterms.</p>

18

<p>alu, one of my close HS friends (by far the smartest person I knew in HS) is a psych prof at Princeton! :) </p>

<p>Your D is clearly doing beautifully. Mazel Tov.</p>

19

<p>1) "Now here she is at Princeton and she is spending more time hanging out and having fun than ever in her life. And less time studying.</p>

<p>"And I told her to do it"</p>

<p>Been there, done that, Alu. ;) Actually your d is getting the "semi-rude awakening" first semester, which is good, because it brings her face to face with reality. Mine got all A-range grades first semester last year and then ended up with more of a mixed bag in the second semester. Now that your d and her friends "get it," they will all probably focus more, so you don't need to get on her case. </p>

<p>2) A few words about distribution. A flat A grade at Princeton is a rare and blessed thing. They are few and far between; I can tell you this because I've seen the distributions in quite a few classes. As Marite notes, the admin is into grade deflation -- and the poor frosh taking survey courses get hit hardest because it's all about a curve. ** The top quintile of the class of '08 included students with a 3.65. ** Think about it: if your d takes a physics class and there are 5 students in it who were on the U.S. physics team, the ones who have done research, etc., they get the As. The exams will be made harder and harder so that the truly spectacular achievers will be outed, and they set the curve. Even when these top students are placed in a more advanced section of a particular course, they still set the curve. Makes no sense to me; they ought to have their own course, but then unfortunately (because of the infernal curve) they'd be eating one another for lunch gradewise. Be an ally to your d. She has been thrust into a system that has been poorly thought out and is considered by many people to be unsound. You have seen my rants on the P board.</p>

<p>3) Keep in mind that as your d fulfills the distribution requirements and chooses courses in different subject areas -- those with which she is less familiar -- she is likely to get the occasional flat B or worse. This is what I hear from my d's friends, even those who went to elite private schools. Bad idea to make her feel bad about this. Good idea to encourage her to ask around and choose her courses carefully. No point in enrolling in courses whose profs favor the whip and chain. ;) Seriously, some announce that only 20 percent of students will get an A-range grade in their class. </p>

<p>4) Grading in freshman seminars tends to be more generous, fwiw. And in junior and senior years as students take small seminars in their major, and as they get graded on the junior and senior theses, the effect on the GPA is usually positive.</p>

<p>5) I talk to a lot of P students and all agree that the most amazing thing about P -- the superb faculty notwithstanding -- is the other students and the campus life they create. There is way too much to do. Most ECs are incredibly demanding. Some, such as the dance and theater companies, the newspaper, and sports, are practically a full-time job. However, as you know, P students are a very personable lot, and the social and organizational skills they develop as well as the contacts they make through these ECs are well worth the time they subtract from studying. But most students seem to be doing a balancing act.</p>

<p>6) We don't know yet whether a kid from P who wants to go to Yale Law School and has a 3.65 is going to have a shot. My d's class will be testing those waters. However, what is very common for P students is to take a job or an internship immediately after college and then apply to the top professional schools a year or two down the road. There are amazing internship opportunities available to them. As for consulting and i-banking, they recruit heavily on the P campus and they are eager for young women with many qualities, not just a certain GPA. </p>

<p>6) One thing my d learned from the grading is to see herself more clearly. In hs she was good at everything. On standardized tests she was good at everything. At P there are classes that have helped her realize that she has some real gifts. In other classes she has seen that she is, well, a good student but not the one who might win the Nobel prize one day. The deflated grading has helped her in the process of forming her identity. Likewise through EC participation she has discovered what she enjoys and where she feels most fulfilled. In the end it all adds up to much more than a number. </p>

<p>I'm sure things will turn out fine. Not sure what you think of the grade deflation process but as an alum you have a powerful voice...</p>

20

<p>"Now here she is at Princeton and she is spending more time hanging out and having fun than ever in her life. "</p>

<p>Isn't that just as much a part of college as grades? Don't we want our children to be thriving socially as well as academically? </p>

<p>So your daughter got a B+ on a midterm in her first semester at an Ivy League school? At some point she'll probably get a less then stellar job review, or have her heart broken by someone, or have everything not go exactly her way. Isn't it better that she learns to accept a little disappointment now than later? </p>

<p>I'd be thrilled if my Ds had grades like that. Relax and enjoy your time with her.</p>