<p>I never went to a selective college and my husband didn't either, so I really don't have a lot of experience with Ivies and other selective schools. My daughter, a Junior, is very ambitious and wants to get into a good college. She has been looking up information on line about admissions and extracurriculars etc., but I really want to be able to help her in any way I can with this process.<br>
I think that she honestly has what it takes to be admitted into some of these colleges (Princeton, Stanford, Columbia, NYU, Vassar...) and I just want to know the basics of how to help get her there. Specifically, I could use information about applications, interviews, financial aid, scholarships etc. This would be so greatly appreciated!</p>
<p>NYU is less selective than Princeton, Stanford, or Columbia. But its need-based financial aid has a reputation of being significantly worse.</p>
<p>Each college has a net price calculator on its web site which will give you a financial aid estimate to help you determine if it is financially realistic.</p>
<p>For the most selective schools like Stanford, she probably needs top end high school record (top grades in rigorous courses), top end test scores, and high achievement in some extracurricular (e.g. state or national level recognition).</p>
<p>The most important school to put on the application list is the safety. This must be a school that she is certain to get into, certain to be able to afford, and which is academically and otherwise suitable for her. In-state public universities are commonly used as safeties, but you need to make sure that they really are safe.</p>
<p>VW, you now have 3 threads going on this… you are going to get similar info on all of them. You might want to go to the different forums and read the “stickied” threads at the tops, then formulate more specific questions.</p>
<p>P.S. - We all understand the stress of this and why you want to ask for so much general advice, though. :)</p>
<p>There are many excellent books available- too many, actually- that can help you answer most of the basic admissions questions.</p>
<p>[Amazon.com:</a> college admissions](<a href=“http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=college%20admissions&sprefix=college+adm%2Caps&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Acollege%20admissions]Amazon.com:”>http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=college%20admissions&sprefix=college+adm%2Caps&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Acollege%20admissions)</p>
<p>It’s worth buying a couple of them and learning the lay-of-the-land. Check out the reviews and see which ones other parents found most valuable.</p>
<p>How can YOU help her get there? Well, actually, she has to do the work. Her SAT scores will need to be TOP. Her GPA will need to be TOP. Even with that, (except for NYU which is not as competitive as the others you have listed)…about 5% of applicants get accepted. In the 95% who do not get accepted are mostly well qualified students. Just make sure your daughter also has choices outside of these highly competitive schools. There are some excellent colleges out there that could be possibilities.</p>
<p>You indicate elsewhere that your daughter has a 31 ACT score. Is she planning to retake this test? In my opinion, that is a lowish ACT score for a Student applying to Princeton, Stanford and the like. But that is my opinion.</p>
<p>As noted above, there is a net pice calculator on each college website. Use it. However if you have a business you own, are self employed, own real estate outside of your primary residence, or patents are divorced…results might not be so accurate. </p>
<p>There is a stickie at the top of the financial aid section that has guaranteed merit awards. You might want to get that.</p>
<p>Re: what YOU can do…hmmm. Do you have several million dollars to donate for an endowed chair? Can you quickly get yourself elected as President? Of course I’m kidding, but these things would certainly raise your daughters chances of acceptance.</p>
<p>Yes, a 31 is too low for top schools without some major hook. Even a 33 can be “low” at those schools. That said, a 35 or 36 is no guarantee.</p>
<p>Your D needs to get her scores up, have a top GPA, top rank, meaningful ECs, leadership, etc.</p>
<p>That said, the best thing YOU can do is encourage your D to include OTHER schools on her list since even with tippy top scores, admission is a lottery win. </p>
<p>Explain to your D that there are few (very few…maybe 1-2 careers) that require a degree from a tippy top school.</p>
<p>Also, figure out how much you can afford to spend and tell your D. Those TOP schools (HYPS) do not give merit scholarships. Aid is based on your finances.</p>
<p>When you run the NPC calculators, do NOT just rely on HYPS calculators. Those schools give super aid. Run the NPCs on other privates as well, and on some state schools.</p>
<p>Your D may also want to include some schools where she’d get a lot of merit scholarship money as back ups.</p>
<p>Also help your D identify a couple of financial safety schools where you know FOR SURE she’ll get enough merit money to make those affordable.</p>
<p>NYU probably isn’t going to give enough aid.</p>
<p>It’s your daughter who has to build up the record that would make her a realistic applicant for the kinds of colleges you describe.</p>
<p>But there are things you can do.</p>
<p>First, finances are your responsibility. It’s important to have a thorough understanding of what you can afford, how financial aid works, and how merit scholarships work. And you need to share your understanding with your daughter so she can make realistic choices.</p>
<p>Second, you can familiarize yourself with the application process. If both you and your daughter are researching this and keeping up on all the details, things are less likely to fall between the cracks. For example, both of you should know when deadlines are, what standardized tests are required for admission, etc.</p>
<p>Third, you can work with your daughter to pick out less selective schools that she likes and your family can afford. She is considering applying to some of the most selective colleges in the country. The vast majority of applicants to these colleges (especially Princeton, Stanford, and Columbia) are rejected. So students who apply to these schools also need to apply to other, less selective colleges as well. And they need to choose those other colleges carefully because they will probably end up at one of them.</p>
<p>Also, unless she is at a top prep school her class rank is really low for the type of colleges you are suggesting. The best thing you can probably do to help her at this point is to look at accepted student profiles for the schools she is interested in and show her where she stacks up. Also, for a dose of harsh realism check out some of the “Results” threads and read the phenomenal stats of kids rejected by the schools you mention. Additionally, when you look at the GPA/class rank/scores of the lower 25% of accepted students you can be pretty sure that that 25% had something extra-legacy, diversity, athlete, famous, significant national awards, extreme adversity…don’t fall into the trap of thinking that because your daughter may fall into that lower quarter that she really has a significant chance. Sorry.</p>
<p>There is a lot of information on all this on websites. You/and or your daughter can start a list with info from websites that covers some of your questions.</p>
<p>I really like Loren Pope’s books: “Colleges that Change Lives” ( which is now a website as well, and there are “Colleges that Change Lives” fairs around the country), and another one entitled “Looking Beyond the Ivy League.” These books are chock full of information on colleges throughout the college, in a format that is easy to absorb.</p>
<p>Of course, the Fiske, Princeton, Barron’s etc. guides are helpful too.</p>
<p>My main advice would be that your daughter should get to know about a lot of schools, not just these well-known ones, and maybe focus on quality of fit rather than prestige.</p>
<p>Let us know more about location, size, academic interests, vibe, finances, to the extent you want to disclose, and we can be more helpful with specifics.</p>
<p>Most schools now use the common application, which is online. Each school has some supplementary questions or essays, but otherwise the common app goes to all of them. There is also the possibility of an arts supplement if relevant. It is great to visit schools if you can. Interviews aren’t all that important, most of the time, and are often done by alumni/ae living near you. Private schools often have aid, either financial (if relevant) or merit that can make them as affordable as public. Check the net price calculators on each website.</p>
<p>My kids always checked distribution requirements: they would prefer more freedom in choosing classes than some schools offer. There are also more alternative schools like Bennington, Bard, Hampshire, Marlboro that offer a lot of independent and interdisciplinary work.</p>
<p>This is kind of random rambling, but hope it helps.</p>
<p>The most important schools on anyone’s lists are the ones sure to accept the student, that are definitely affordable and have the courses that the student wants. If the student likes the school as well, it’s gravy, but in my experience, it’s difficult to get kids’ heads out of the clouds when they have their sights set on the lottery ticket schools. It’s far more fun to research, visit, discuss, dream about and say the words “Princeton, Harvard, Yale” than discussing local options that may be far more realistic.</p>
<p>As a parent, it’s important to determine what is affordable to you as a family, and also what the schools will expect you to pay. Though many of the most selective schools guarantee to meet full, need, they also define what that need is, and many a parent has been flabbergastered at the number. You may think you are lower middle class, or middle class, but the calculators may indicate otherwise. </p>
<p>It’s time to visit with your student’s GC, with your student. Have questions ready about what schools accept kids with your DD"s stats. The GC will likely be your best source for local, and state options as most kids will have gone that route. FInd out who has been getting into the schools like PRinceton, NYU and others that your DD has cherry picked. Is she truly a contender for the schools? HOw many get in each year? Does the school use Naviance? Can you get access to that info so that you can see where your DD is in the accept clusters for various schools? </p>
<p>Without a strong hook, something a college has on its wish list, it takes the very top numbers to get into these most selective schools If you come from a state that is highly under represented, that is a a bit of tip in your DD’s favor. A school like NYU, in particular, would be interested in that. The HPYMSC schools, tend to have enough kids applying form every and anywhere, that it isn’t much of a big deal. But NYU, BC, BU, Emory, Johns Hopkihs, that might make more of a difference.</p>
<p>Make sure your daughter researches what the schools have to offer. Wanting to be a business major when that is not an option is not a good start on the app. She will need to show that she has researched the school and is not just picking names off a prestige list. It’s importnat to show in some of the essays and short answer that she has done her homework and that there is good reason to want to go to the school for its offerings.</p>
<p>To be accepted on academic excellence, the top schools generally will look at the difficulty of the curriculum that your DD has taken in high school in most all disciplines, including the maths, sciences and foreign language. THey will look at grades and class rank. They also will look at the test scores,usually requiring some SAT2 subject tests. AP classes and test scores are important in that they show the student is taking the most difficult courses at the high school if that is the most difficult track. If she is not taking more than one or two such courses before senior year, the school track record on AP test scores will be important. Your daughter not only has to be one of the best 1-3 students in her class , but is also competing agains all of such students from all over the world. Even then, the chances of getting into the very top school , with less than a 10% accept rate are very small, because you have to understand that included in the accepts are those with a foot in the door through legacy, athletic, development, celebrity, special skill, URM considerations that any particular school vaulues.</p>
<p>Once the top 20 or so schools in selectivity are checked off, it becomes a bit more of real chance of getting accepted. Do look at those schools that are not world renown in name. Many are very good school. URochester, Bard, Case Western, Boston College, American U, all excellent schools Just going by name brand is not the way to go, as really the most important thing in picking a colege is how much your student is going to enjoy and be able to tolerate ( bottom line here and yes, it is important) the school. I had to learn this the hard way when the student and school was not a good match. My neighbor’s joy was shortlived upon her student’s acceptance to Colgate, when in a few months, it was clear that she did not like the school at all. Not one bit. Couldn’t get involved, couldn’t enjoy, couldn’t tolerate and then couldn’t perform which compromised transfer possiblilties. So this is not something to take lightly.</p>
<p>Good luck in the process.</p>
<p>Thank you all soo much I really appreciate it. As far as more specific information, I don’t have a whole lot, but here is what I do know. She is really interested in the East Coast and schools in that area but I’m really not sure that she knows what it’s like because she hasn’t been there since she was 10. She also really loves California and we have visited there a lot so I know she gets the ‘vibe’ of it. She’s also interested in Washington and Oregon although we’ve never been there. And, of course, schools in or around Utah would also be preferable. So that’s a pretty wide map, but that’s what I know. She has never told me a preference on size, but I would guess something with small-medium classroom sizes? I will have to ask. Her favorite subject has always been Language Arts; it’s definitely what she is best at as well. However, lately she’s been more into Business. Her dream job is to work as a writer for a newspaper or magazine, or to be an entrepreneur. I don’t really know what ‘vibe’ she wants. She’s definitely more academic and is not a partier. Finances… For the last seven years, my husband operated a small construction business but last year he got a new job as a manager so we have been more well-off. We are still pretty lower-middle class though. So preferably somewhere where she will be able to get financial aid. If she stays in Utah, she will get at least a $5K scholarship so I’m not to worried about her not having options here. And she is interested in U of U and Westminster. I’m just worried about these higher tier schools. I will run the calculations today though and see what would be reasonable. Thank you again.</p>
<p>Wow I realize that paragraph looks pretty scrambled, sorry!</p>
<p>“I think that she honestly has what it takes to be admitted into some of these colleges (Princeton,…” - Keep in mind that many Ivy qualified students (even some with perfect scores) are rejected from Ivies. There are lots of talented students and a limited number of slots. So cast a wide net. </p>
<p>Lots of good advise above. Definitely get a level set with net price calculators Good luck!</p>
<p>VW - has she visited any colleges yet? If not, she should tour some colleges close to home that vary in size and that might help her figure out if she wants a small, medium or large college. Hopefully there will be some public and private colleges nearby that you’re able to visit so she can see if she has a preference for public/private as well.</p>
<p>If she is interested in journalism (or whatever it may be) have her sit in on a class that interests her on the visit. Most colleges let students sit in on classes during their visits (at least that was the case for the colleges we toured). She should also research schools that are good in her preferred major but she needs to make sure any other things she might be interested in are also available at that school in case she changes majors. My oldest daughter has changed her major four times and the most recent change was during Christmas of her junior year. She’s now a senior and scheduled to graduate on time . . . IF she doesn’t change her major again. My youngest changed majors over the summer (before she started college) but stayed in the same department of the school she’s attending.</p>
<p>We didn’t visit three of the schools my daughter applied to before she applied because they are on the East Coast and we are on the West Coast. Since one was an extreme long-shot and the others didn’t have the odds in her favor, we waited until she was accepted to visit the East Coast schools. She was accepted to two but not the long-shot school. She’s at one of the East Coast schools now and loves it. </p>
<p>All colleges have different minimum requirements and different deadlines for the applications and financial aid so one way you can help her, other than taking her to tour colleges, is to make a spreadsheet with all the deadline information for the schools she’ll apply to so she can keep on top of the deadlines. Once the acceptances come in, you can add financial aid and AP credits to the spreadsheet to assist in making the final decision.</p>
<p>One other thing to look at are the school profiles for the freshmen class. That will show you and your daughter what the average GPA and test scores are for the latest freshman class. If your daughter’s stats are way below the stats of the freshmen class, her chances of being accepted are not very good. My daughter took Carnegie Mellon off her list because she knew there was no way they would accept her. Her scores and GPA weren’t terrible but they weren’t up to Carnegie Mellon’s averages and she figured it would be a waste of time and money to apply.</p>
<p>My last piece of advice is to let your daughter apply to a few long-shot schools (where her stats aren’t too far off the freshmen class averages) if she wants to but make sure she knows the odds aren’t in her favor so not to be too disappointed if she doesn’t get accepted (and it WILL still be disappointing for her) and if she does get accepted, but the financial aid isn’t sufficient, she can’t attend. We were fortunate with my younger daughter to get great financial aid offers at the two private schools she was accepted to so they became choices for her but she knew they would be off the list if we couldn’t afford them.</p>
<p>Good luck! You’ll be happy when all of this is over :).</p>
<p>Books that I liked for the general overview of college admissions:</p>
<p>A is for Admission</p>
<p>New Rules of College Admissions</p>
<p>[url=<a href=“http://www.amazon.com/Is-Admission-Insiders-Getting-Colleges/dp/0446540676/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1380480101&sr=8-3&keywords=college+admissions]A”>http://www.amazon.com/Is-Admission-Insiders-Getting-Colleges/dp/0446540676/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1380480101&sr=8-3&keywords=college+admissions]A</a> Is for Admission: The Insider’s Guide to Getting into the Ivy League and Other Top Colleges: Michele A. Hern</p>