The Big Ten Expansion

College Search & Selection
1

<p>So, I've seen topic(s) related to the Ivy athletics on this board which prompted me to start a thread in light of the recent developing story concerning the Big Ten (CIC) conference expansion. Schools such as but not limited to Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, Missouri, Syracuse, Rutgers or even Texas have been brought to the discussion as the possible candidate based on the academics, athletics, and $TV markets (Big Ten Network).</p>

<p>Current Members of the CIC (Academic Big Ten)
ranked by USNWR 2010 / PA Score</p>

<p>Chicago #8 / 4.6
Northwestern #12 / 4.3
Michigan #27 / 4.4
Wisconsin #39 / 4.1
Illinois #39 / 4.0
Penn State #47 / 3.8
Ohio State #53 / 3.6
Purdue #61 / 3.7
Minnesota #61 / 3.6
Michigan St #71 / 3.4
Indiana #71 / 3.6
Iowa #71 / 3.6</p>

<p>*Possible Expansion Candidates</p>

<p>Notre Dame #20
Texas #47
Pittsburgh #56
Syracuse #58
Rutgers #66
Missouri #102</p>

<p>(Sorry, I don't have their PA Scores)</p>

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<p>So far as I am concerned, I am all for TEXAS based on factors such as the TV market, the value of Longhorns athletic program(s), the academic prestige which includes but not limited to the AAU membership as well as school's endowment (even though geographically, Texas might not be the most ideal scenario for the Big Ten in this case). </p>

<p>What's you take??</p>

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<p>My first choice would be Texas. Great university (on par with Michigan, UIUC and Wisconsin), great endowment and a great college town. Unfortunately, its location and affiliation with the Big XII make this one unlikely. </p>

<p>My second choice would be Pitt. It is not as strong academically, but it is a good university with excellent research and a natural rivalry with PSU. </p>

<p>My third choice would be Notre Dame, primarily because of its football tradition.</p>

3

<p>I doubt ND would join a conference. ND likes keeping all of its TV revenues to itself. When you join a conference, you have to share your revenues with the conference.</p>

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<p>My first choice after ND is Rutgers with the assumption that Texas is just a pipedream. I’d also look at Maryland. The number of good choices is very limited.</p>

5

<p>I would think that schools like Boise St, Utah, and TCU would be interested in changing conferences.</p>

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<p>notre dames current contract with nbc pays $9 million a year, less than HALF of indiana or northwesterns piece of the big ten pie. think about that for a second. indiana FOOTBALL is generating TWICE the tv revenue of notre dame football. alas, for notre dame alums, its comes down to their sense of superiority (…or respect for tradition, if you want to be kind). the money would be far better in the big ten.</p>

<p>texas would also see at least an additional $10 million annually by joining the big ten. but again, that likely wont be enough to overcome other (in this case, cultural, geographic, and possibly political) concerns.</p>

<p>every other school being considered (with the possible exception of maryland) would leap at a big ten invite. the financial incentive is that large. </p>

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<p>from the big tens side of things, the criteria for such an invite will certainly include an academic component. however, make no mistake: this move is about money. more precisely, this move is about getting the big ten network on basic cable in new households. pitt adds no households, as penn state is already delivering the pittsburgh market. rutgers and syracuse will add some, but there are significant questions about how much of new york city they will ultimately be able to deliver. without significant inroads there, neither adds as much as missouri, which is why mizzou is probably the odds-on favorite at this point.</p>

<p>it will be interesting to see what happens if missouri does get the invite and colorado bolts for the pac 10, which is also being rumored. that would leave the big 12 with ZERO top 40 media markets outside the state of texas and no real options for adding one in its entirety (if colorado bolts, utah is likely headed to the pac 10, too. consequently byu could only add half of salt lake city). such a shakedown would put severe constraints on big 12 revenue growth going forward, which would hurt even the mighty texas in the long run. (its only in this kind of scenario that i see texas bolting for greener pastures.)</p>

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<p>mind you, its this kind of tv revenue calculus that must be done when thinking about ANY major conference expansion possibility. tcu has a good football team right now, but what do they really add to the big 12 bottom line? like pitt in the big 10: nothing, as fort worth already watches texas and oklahoma on saturdays. boise state adds nothing to either the big 12 or pac 10 as the market is simply too small. adding them simply divides the dallas/houston or la/sf markets one more way. and as a result, everybody (except the new guy) loses.</p>

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<p>Alex, great minds think a like - even for the rival fans!! :p</p>

<p>mom2collegekids, I believe ND’s NBC deal worth ~9 million. On the other hand, ‘each’ Big Ten school makes equal share of ~$22million. Boise St, Utah, and TCU that you mentioned… maybe the Pac-10 would consider adding them. The CIC presidents would definitely turn these schools down based on the existing criteria.</p>

<p>barrons, yeah I forgot to include Maryland as well as UConn as the possible candidate!! I reckon that Texas would most likely be a pipedream. Nonetheless, last night’s news still brings me hope… -.-</p>

<p>[Include</a> Texas on Big Ten expansion list - chicagotribune.com](<a href=“http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/ct-spt-0212-big-ten-expansion--20100211,0,4739233.column]Include”>http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/ct-spt-0212-big-ten-expansion--20100211,0,4739233.column)</p>

<p>ericatbucknell,
Indeed, Mizzou has been the most aggressive of all the candidates since the expansion announcement late last year. The Missouri governor, school president, AD and coaches are all strongly pushing for the inclusion thus far.</p>

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<p>I agree the desire for more TV revenue is what’s driving a lot of this, but frankly I just don’t see that Missouri adds much. It’s a small market—2009 state population of just under 6 million, rank 18th—and not a particularly affluent one, ranking 35th among the states in median household income. With 8.7 million people New Jersey is about 45% larger than Missouri in population, and it perennially ranks first, second, or third in median household income (along with Maryland and Connecticut), with a median household income more than 50% higher than Missouri’s. In addition, far more New Jerseyans are college-educated: New Jersey ranks 6th in that category with 33.3% having completed a bachelor’s degree, as opposed to only 24.3% in Missouri, good for 34th place. In short, there are just a lot more eyeballs in New Jersey, and far more of them belong to the college-educated upper-middle-class professional demographic the Big Ten Network promises to deliver to advertisers. Any viewership Rutgers draws on the east side of the Hudson is just gravy—and undoubtedly there would be some. There will also be a lot of pressure from Big Ten basketball and football coaches to break into the New York/New Jersey market, because they want the television exposure to open up those markets for recruiting purposes. Missouri? Not so much.</p>

<p>Also, keep in mind that several Big Ten schools—notably Michigan, Wisconsin, Northwestern, and Penn State, but others, too—have very large numbers of alumni living in New York and New Jersey, probably numbering in the hundreds of thousands all told. Add to that Rutgers’ own alumni base which is heavily concentrated there—and Rutgers is a significantly bigger school than Mizzou, meaning a larger alumni base. That creates a natural market for the Big Ten Network in the NY/NJ region on a scale that Missouri just can’t match. As a Michigan alum, I’d estimate that maybe 1 of every 10 people I knew in college ended up in New York/New Jersey—many of them returning home, others venturing there for professional opportunities. I can’t think of a single person I knew in college who ended up in Missouri.</p>

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<p>Here is an article covering the candidates most often mentioned. He makes a strong case for Texas. As a UT student, I am all for this. </p>

<p>[The</a> Big Ten Expansion Index: A Different Shade of Orange FRANK THE TANK’S SLANT](<a href=“http://frankthetank.■■■■■■■■■■■■■/2009/12/27/the-big-ten-expansion-index-a-different-shade-of-orange/]The”>The Big Ten Expansion Index: A Different Shade of Orange – FRANK THE TANK'S SLANT)</p>

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<p>UT would be the best addition to the Big 10. One can always hope I suppose.</p>

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<p>Fiyero, yeah, not sure if Big Ten officials would be willing to add TAMU in order to get UT… I would rather see TAMU, go to the SEC and have UT play them and OU as OCC games. However, I personally am willing to consider expanding the conference to 14 members instead of a dozen if TAMU (USNWR #61 with $6.7 billion endowment) has to be part of the UT package in exchange for the ~24 million TV sets in Texas!! Statistically, I read that UT was also the most profitable athletic program in the country at $78 million in '08 closely followed by tOSU. Go Texas!! Hook’em Horns!! lol</p>

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<p>Notre Dame would be a terrible fit in the Big Ten. Sectarian and not in any way a noted research University, unlike all other members. And their fans would make Michigan’s seem humble. ;)</p>

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<p>Yeah, the Texas argument is pretty compelling, on both sides. Hard to see how the Big 12 competes with that. </p>

<p>I still don’t buy the “Rutgers can’t deliver NYC” argument though. I lived in the city for many years. Rutgers gets a lot of attention there; it would get more if it were in a more prominent football conference with a natural local rival in Penn State and other nationally recognized brands like Ohio State and Michigan. The argument that Penn State is already more popular in the NYC market than Rutgers has a grain of truth, but if the Big Ten had TWO “local” teams in the NYC market, plus that NYC alumni base from other Big Ten schools, I think it quickly takes hold as the most-followed college athletic conference in NYC, and maybe even generates some genuine excitement with college football cracking that market in a big way for perhaps the first time ever, and the Big Ten cashing in.</p>

<p>Texas still has several advantages. First, there are more Texans than New Yorkers. Second, Texans are already in the habit of watching college football; in fact, most are die-hard fans, whereas New Yorkers are more into pro sports. If the Big Ten expansion is +1, Texas probably makes the most sense. If it’s +3, Texas, Notre Dame, and Rutgers would be a blockbuster, a game-changer that establishes the Big Ten as the first truly national athletic superconference.</p>

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<p>Interestingly though, this whole expansion issue will finally be decided by the Presidents of the CIC. So basically, when it’s all said and done, Jim Delany will present his case to the Chief Academic Officer of CIC - Dr. Lou Simon (President of MSU), she then will be joined by the other 11 university Presidents in a meeting, which means that the University of Chicago (though no longer athletically affiliated with the Big Ten) will also have a voice / vote in determining this matter.</p>

<p>On a personal note, my UM cousin just found the job in Dallas last year and is now a practicing lawyer in Texas!! Apparently, Michigan’s bar license is reciprocal in TX (but not in CA or NY). This undoubtedly gives me another reason for trip to Texas if UT is admitted to the Big Ten. :)</p>

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<p>As to ND’s academics. I think most people outside the academic world would see it as a big positive addition to the B10. Highly ranked undergrad would add to the academic luster of the conference and what exactly does another big research school add–just another competitor for scarce resources. I don’t see that much CIC type cooperation going on outside sharing some items. ND has the capability to increase the grad platform much as USC and NYU have done over the same 20 year period. But like UT, I doubt it’s a real option. Go RU. We’ll shame the state into building you a decent campus to support the football team.</p>

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<p>Rutgers. Rutgers. Remember that the Empire State Building was lit up scarlet on two occasions in honor of Rutgers athletic events.</p>

<p>Both ND and Texas are making too much money based on their current athletic arrangements.</p>

<p>What do you think about Utah and Colorado (and BYU?) to the Pac 10?</p>

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<p>This topic has been covered a no. of times already.</p>

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<p>RU doesn’t bring much to the table aside from a potential TV market. </p>

<p>I have my doubts that including RU would result in NYC metro area cable providers paying the BTN carriage fees on expanded basic since the trifecta of RU, SU and UConn can’t even deliver the NYC market.</p>

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<p>Again, a school like Northwestern ($22 million) gets about twice as much in TV revenue as ND ($10.1 million) and Texas ($12 million) and that amount continues to grow; the B10 conference gets more in TV revenue than the B12, ACC, BE and Pac10 combined.</p>

<p>As for Utah and CU going to the Pac10.</p>

<p>Utah just doesn’t have a big enough pop. base (and probably doesn’t have the requisite academics) to warrant an invite.</p>

<p>No way that BYU ever gets an invite.</p>

<p>CU is a possibility but in order for expansion to really make financial sense for the Pac10, a school like UT would have to be added to the mix (tho, CU and TAMU may be a viable alternative).</p>

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<p>Tom Osbourne, HoF coach and current AD of Neb recently stated - “If the Big Ten calls, we’ll listen.” </p>

<p>It’s talk like this that may very well get UT to become proactive.</p>

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<p>“I have my doubts that including RU would result in NYC metro area cable providers paying the BTN carriage fees on expanded basic since the trifecta of RU, SU and UConn can’t even deliver the NYC market.”</p>

<p>Amen to that! When I was living in the east coast, it was mostly about the YES Network besides the sporadic media coverage of the Mets and the Giants in NJ/NYC area. Likewise, the entire New England area is all about the Sox and the Patriots. SU & UConn are known as the Bball schools and not many would track their Fball games besides the students, alumni and affiliates. Though out of the three, RU has the most recent Fball success with Schiano and Orange has the most Fball history. These schools’ athletic success just do not translate into the NYC TV market imho.</p>

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<p>Tom Osbourne, HoF coach and current AD of Neb recently stated - “If the Big Ten calls, we’ll listen.” </p>

<p>Maybe if he cries that his school deserves a share of the Big Ten conference, it just might happen. It did work before when he successdully lobbied for a national football championship in 1997. Honestly though, there is no way the Big Ten would ever contact Nebraska. It’s just not that great of an academic institution.</p>

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<p>The NY market covers about 20 million people so you do not have to deliver the entire market. I agree that Rutgers, Syracuse or Connecticut do not now deliver the market- it really is not about anyone of those schools which will bring the market. It is about the allure of the Big 10 itself that will bring enough of the market to make it worthwhile. The northeast is going to be in play with the Big 10 or the ACC.</p>