The Bush Regime

Colleges and Universities A-Z Naval Academy - Annapolis
101

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By the way, did you mean for the double entendre here?

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<p>:D</p>

<p>So, if you have nothing to do with a SA, and only wish to point out "silliness" and "zealotry" in other's posts, please go somewhere else. We only want people here who can add to the discussion. Thanks for trying, though.</p>

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As for UCLAri, at least you have not seriously ruined your reputation among the SA people yet by resorting to childish tantrums

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<p>Can't argue with that. :)</p>

102

<p>UCLAri...I wasn't tryin to start a fight. All my posts have been completetly respectful unlike Zaphod and some of the other right-wing fascists. In my first post i even said how i respected and support the men/women in our military, i just wanted to know if the students in the Naval Academy really believe in Bush's propoganda. It was simply a question.</p>

103

<p>well looks like you came to the wrong spot to ask such an ignorant question.</p>

104

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i just wanted to know if the students in the Naval Academy really believe in Bush's propoganda

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<p>It is obvious most of us support our commander in chief. The next comes those who are indifferent. And a small percent who are against him but they exist.</p>

105

<p>And those who exist never forget that they are PROFESSIONALS; that they have sworn an oath to defend the Constitution of the United States, which states that the President is the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces. As such, when he says pack up and go, they pack up and go.</p>

<p>"Ours is not to reason why. Ours is but to do or die."</p>

<p>When I was in, and Bubba "Depends what the definition of 'is' is" Clinton sent me and my brothers in arms off to that little turd of a country called Haiti, we packed up and went, despite the fact we KNEW we were wasting our time and resources. We were right and Clinton was wrong, of course. Take a look at Haiti: it's still a putrid rathole.</p>

<p>I simply wonder if anyone on the left really believes the idiocy they espouse. Lord knows, they certainly drink the Kool Aid by the gallon. :rolleyes:</p>

106

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...some of the other right-wing fascists...

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<p>Doesn't sound too respectful to me, man. If you want to be listened to, don't generalize and if you want to ask the question, by all means do so, but be careful that your wording doesn't come off as an attack because people will attack you right back. That is what happened here. Your question is perfectly legit, but the wording is the thing that set it off.</p>

<p>By the way, just by saying that you "respect the men and women in our military" doesn't mean you are asking a respectful question in a respectful manner. Talk is cheap. Hell, most of America claims to "respect the men and women in the military." But do they really mean it? That is debatable. Same idea here...</p>

107

<p>"Right-wing fascists"?</p>

<p>ROFLMAO!</p>

<p>Is that the best these idiots can do? :rolleyes:</p>

<p>It's a shame they've never lived under REAL fascism. That would teach them one hell of a lesson. :mad:</p>

<p>Forget it, Fiterace. They are so consumed with hatred (for their country, for our military, for those who disagree with them, and even for themselves) that they cannot carry on a coherent, reasoned conversation.</p>

<p>Ignore them.</p>

108

<p>True that. I'm moving on to bigger and better things. ;)</p>

109

<p>Zaphod,</p>

<p>No offense man, but you're getting pretty silly yourself, telling me to just pack up because I don't have a direct connection to the SAs. It's fairly obvious that this particular thread, though it's in the Annapolis section, isn't about Annapolis, but about how ab_med is just trying to stir up trouble (and then act innocent afterward.) I would think you'd want otherwise reasonable people around to at least provide a few reasoned arguments, whether or not they agree with you (that is, if you're as Millsian as I am.)</p>

<p>I myself respect the armed forces as far as they serve the needs of the nation (for example, I don't think that every contract given out to Northrop is always a good thing, even if it may lead to a good [in the economic sense] for the military.) The problem I have, at least philosphically, with giving undying and unquestioning support to any military, even our own, is that it is in many ways its own interest group which can and does on occasion run contrary to the interests of other citizens. </p>

<p>At any rate, I just suggest that even if you guys are right, your arguments are far more effective if you cut out the ad hominems and "liberals are bad, mm'kay" sort of rhetoric. After all, do you really want to be that which you're arguing against?</p>

110

<p>And that pretty much sums it up, folks.</p>

<p>The armed forces don't just serve the needs of the nation. They are the reason you're able to do the things you want to do. You're alive because someone with more love for their country was able to follow orders without wondering about the philisophical implications of their support. The U.S. is the way it is because someone said, "I'm going to give my life to my country to use as it so chooses. I will swear to defend this Constitution and only question orders when they subvert this Document."</p>

<p>So enjoy your freedom. Lords knows someone else earned it for you.</p>

111

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Zaphod,</p>

<p>No offense man, but you're getting pretty silly yourself

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No doubt. I like having fun here as well as helping out.</p>

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telling me to just pack up because I don't have a direct connection to the SAs. It's fairly obvious that this particular thread, though it's in the Annapolis section, isn't about Annapolis, but about how ab_med is just trying to stir up trouble (and then act innocent afterward.)

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Hence my comment. If you are here to have a political discussion, and you have no attachment to a SA, then LEAVE, as this is not an open political forum.</p>

<p>If, however, you have questions about the SA's or simply wish to learn about them, then by all means please come on in and make yourself comfortable, but STAY ON TOPIC. </p>

<p>Sorry, but we have been infested lately by mindless trolls who are doing absolutely NOTHING other than stirring the pot for their own sexual fantasies, and I and the rest of us regulars here are pretty damned sick of it.</p>

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I would think you'd want otherwise reasonable people around to at least provide a few reasoned arguments, whether or not they agree with you (that is, if you're as Millsian as I am.)

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Yes, but not here. I am not afraid of having my positions reasonably challenged because I am quite confident in them and willing to adjust them if convinced otherwise (don't try to make me swing left, because I was already there a long time ago and came to realize just how stupid it is).</p>

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I myself respect the armed forces as far as they serve the needs of the nation (for example, I don't think that every contract given out to Northrop is always a good thing, even if it may lead to a good [in the economic sense] for the military.)

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What does respecting the military have to do with Northrop contracts? How about respecting the military because they volunteer to get shot at so you can sit at home all nice and comfy behind your computer? Why does EVERYTHING have to be political with you people? Can't you just appreciate the sacrifices the PEOPLE in the military make, and THANK them for it on that basis alone?</p>

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The problem I have, at least philosphically, with giving undying and unquestioning support to any military, even our own, is that it is in many ways its own interest group which can and does on occasion run contrary to the interests of other citizens.

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That requires the assumption that our military is corrupt and a political force unto its own. IT ISN'T. We take care of our own and PUNISH our own when they screw up, and we take our orders from the CIVILIAN leadership. I never once, in all my ten years in uniform, heard ONE military person call for the military NOT to report through the CIVILIAN authorities. NOT ONCE. As such, I trust my military and give them the benefit of the doubt. It's that whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing that liberals are so keen to use in support of rapists, murderers, and purgerers. Wish they'd do the same for us.</p>

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At any rate, I just suggest that even if you guys are right, your arguments are far more effective if you cut out the ad hominems and "liberals are bad, mm'kay" sort of rhetoric. After all, do you really want to be that which you're arguing against?

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We simply reply in kind. It is INVARIABLE that the first insult thrown comes from the left. All you have to do is simply disagree, and you are IMMEDIATELY labeled a bigot. After that, it goes downhill.</p>

<p>Besides, modern liberalism IS bad, and in my opinion it the greatest threat to the future of this country. If that offends liberals, GOOD. I'm sick to death of being offended by them and then being told to STHU because they have "freedom of speech". Well so do I, and the difference is that I have actually worn the uniform and defended that right. I'll be damned before I let some ****ant highschooler (not you) attack the Service and everything else I hold dear and just stand idly by.</p>

112

<p>Now we need to learn how to argue?
Flemming, get off the computer now. <br>
We wear the uniform, whether it is whiteworks or bdu's, because no one else will. Good job TacticalNuke for summing it up.</p>

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the difference is that I have actually worn the uniform and defended that right. I'll be damned before I let some ****ant highschooler (not you) attack the Service and everything else I hold dear and just stand idly by.

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<p>If only I could have interviewed you for my role model paper for leadership class. darn. you are AWESOME</p>

113

<p>Nah. You're too kind.</p>

<p>I'm jus zis guy, you know? ;)</p>

<p>Thanks, though. :o</p>

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Now we need to learn how to argue?

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Better than needing to learn how to THINK, which is THEIR problem. :rolleyes:</p>

114

<p>lol something tells me fleming would be loving this discussion right now. he might even get inspiration for his next book.</p>

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<p>Hey, Wheelah! Clear out your IM box will ya?</p>

<p>Sheesh! They climb Herndon and discipline goes out the window! :rolleyes:</p>

<p>:D</p>

<p>Who the heck is fleming? :confused:</p>

116

<p>prof. flemming, whose highly controversial book annapolis autumn or something similar is detested pretty much by everyone affiliated with the academy.</p>

117

<p>Ah..... </p>

<p>Professor where?</p>

<p>Berkeley? :rolleyes:</p>

<p>Glad I missed it. Harry Potter sounds much better and more realistic.</p>

118

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Hence my comment. If you are here to have a political discussion, and you have no attachment to a SA, then LEAVE, as this is not an open political forum.

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<p>Call me crazy, but what difference is it if you make political remarks or I make political remarks? I don't see why I can't be interested in the issues surrounding the military and the SAs as much as you. I may not have attended one, nor will I ever, but I do plan on working in security policy, so this is an issue that matters to me. </p>

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If, however, you have questions about the SA's or simply wish to learn about them, then by all means please come on in and make yourself comfortable, but STAY ON TOPIC.

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<p>But the topic is the Bush regime, and then swung to the issue of liberal attitudes regarding the military, so how is this so off the mark?</p>

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What does respecting the military have to do with Northrop contracts? How about respecting the military because they volunteer to get shot at so you can sit at home all nice and comfy behind your computer? Why does EVERYTHING have to be political with you people? Can't you just appreciate the sacrifices the PEOPLE in the military make, and THANK them for it on that basis alone?

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<p>Because everything is inevitably political, whether we like it or not. I understand that the military serves a vital, admirable, and altogether honorable function in society. But, I also recognize that the armed forces are also an interest group (check out what Eisenhower said about this) who will make appeals to improve their situation (this is one of the reasons that the Founding Fathers feared a standing military).</p>

<p>Now, like I said, in today's world a military is necessary and a good. However, it's a good that costs us a lot of money, lives, and capital to maintain. </p>

<p>I tend to apply the same standards to the military as T.R. suggested be applied to the Presidency (respect as much as is deserved.) Up until this point, that means that I give almost 100% respect and support. But would I support the military during a coup (knock on wood that it never happens)? No. Of course, that's just a silly hypothetical, right? </p>

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I never once, in all my ten years in uniform, heard ONE military person call for the military NOT to report through the CIVILIAN authorities. NOT ONCE. As such, I trust my military and give them the benefit of the doubt. It's that whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing that liberals are so keen to use against rapists, murderers, and purgerers. Wish they'd do the same for us.

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<p>I agree that there is definitely an absurd anti-military streak that warrants countering. However, I suppose I tend to be a bit too clasically liberal (think Founding Fathers) to really believe that we should swing to the too-forgiving side either. If the current executive is making poor strategic decisions, there SHOULD be an outcry from the soldiers. After all, they're the ones who have to go and fight, not the lumps in Washington. Remember, the military has interests (one is not to die for frivalous wag-the-dog sorts of military actions) that it should see to. And this shouldn't be Pentagon-level only decisions. It should be grassroots level statements. </p>

<p>Am I calling for mutiny? Of course not. But neither should anyone be held to the standard of fighting without questioning. If you believe that an executive makes poor decisions (and Lord knows some can and do), then lobby against it! Vote them out! Be as active a citizen as your station will allow you to be.</p>

<p>But like I said, maybe I bought into the whole libertarian idealism of the Founders too much.</p>

119

<p>Why do you guys, especially Zaphod, seem to hate Berkeley so much? Im sure you dont know too much about the school. I dont know much about the naval acaademy and thus i do not make comments about it.</p>

120

<p>ab_med,</p>

<p>Probably because people like you burst into threads and start attacking things that they hold dear. Once bitten, twice shy...</p>