<p>“and that each student should make their own individual choice in the matter and not be swayed by any silly arguments as to why Duke is better than XXX or YYY.”</p>
<p>OK. The students who had made their individual choices this past year or two without reading this thread 75-90% are going to Duke over these schools.</p>
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<p>Whoa. Please read carefully what the Cornell folks are saying. We’re not saying we are superior, we’re just saying that life is a hell of a lot more complicated than the black and white false truths that EAD espouses day in, day out.</p>
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<p>he didn’t even know we had a medical hospital, more less so the reputation we had as a research powerhouse. how would he ever know Duke has more of these “individuals” than Cornell? he’s just being delusional, not to mention a huge snob. </p>
<p>if such attitude represents that of the whole university, i can seriously see you guys succeeding in a long run like you guys think you will compared to other <em>inferior</em> college graduates from JHU, Cornell, etc etc.</p>
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<p>Even if you could prove those numbers, which you can’t, then so be it. Maybe the students who were cross-admits to Cornell and Duke already favored Duke from the start. And the students who enrolled at Cornell never even applying to Duke, even if they could have gotten in.</p>
<p>I’m not certain what cross-admit data tells you about the quality of the student or educational experience.</p>
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<p>What you said still stands, and my argument against it still stands.</p>
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<p>I’m not certain what it means either. I don’t doubt many of them favored Duke: I favored Duke from the start as well, and I am glad I got to visit Ithaca and learn more about Cornell because it is a great school. I do think though that we should be able to believe the Dean of Duke Admissions, especially when other schools have had the chance and have not refuted this data.</p>
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<p>And you have no proof that the dean’s figures are accurate. The general consensus about voluntary response data is that it’s inaccurate; as soon as you can cite the scientific study that your all-knowing dean conducted to figure out the cross-admits, don’t use it as support for your specious claims.</p>
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<p>I’m sorry you can’t see the difference between “facts” and “likely erroneous projections.” (Hint: one’s real, the other isn’t.)</p>
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<p>So now you’re pulling facts out of thin air? Since when was that consensus reached?</p>
<p>And by “we,” I mean more or less every person on this thread, minus the Duke cheerleaders like you.</p>
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<p>You act as though Cornell is “weak” in those areas–and it isn’t. The differences between Duke and Cornell are minute.</p>
<p>just please don’t do it in the future, thank you for accurating quoting me in boxes the past few messages.</p>
<p>The dean of admissions does not have access to the information that determines the exact cross-admit percentages. His infomation is probably gathered from the responses that students send in about where they were accepted (there’s not other way to get it). Colleges that I turned down don’t know I’m going to Cornell, so there is no way that their admissions deans can say they win over this percentage of cross-admits with Cornell, and the same goes for Duke (they have no way of knowing where students who didn’t respond with that card are going to college). </p>
<p>And on a side note, how would you know weather or not Cornell disputed this with Duke. Maybe they privately contacted Duke, because a public argument is entirely unnecessary. Or maybe they let it slide, because it doesn’t even matter.</p>
<p>“The dean of admissions does not have access to the information that determines the exact cross-admit percentages.” </p>
<p>Those numbers may not be exact but certainly a margin of error would not propel Cornell to suddenly win over Duke in cross admits. </p>
<p>I really can’t believe you’re arguing with the Director of Admissions…Any reasonable person who has not been engaged in this “thread” would unquestionably take the Director’s words to be true.</p>
<p>lol guys, can you give it a rest? This thread has only been here for four days and it is already one of the longest on the college search and selection forum. It’s almost as bad as an AA debate! (Also, everyone who’s viewed it has posted)</p>
<p>Except that one is more interesting and meaningful.</p>
<p>my bad xjis, It was brown man who was confused.</p>
<p>Sigh… because you Duke students continually make the same fallacious arguments after we countered many of them… Here is yet another rebuttal.</p>
<p>1) This cross admit statistic is stupid. First of all, the statistic you provide is flawed, as it is self-reported. Second, even if it weren’t flawed, it suggests nothing. What was the statistic you provided? I believe it was that 75% of the students who got into Duke and at least one of the following schools (JHU, Northwestern, Cornell) chose Duke. Since individual cross admit rates are not given, this statistic is essentially worthless. It could be that 100% of Duke/Cornell cross admits chose Cornell, 0 percent of the Duke/ Northwestern cross admits chose Northwestern, and 0 percent of the Duke/JHU cross admits chose JHU, and no one would ever know. Hence the statistic is useless.</p>
<p>2) Duke is not better than Cornell for premed, or prelaw. Cornell premeds with a 3.4 GPA or higher had an 88% acceptance into med school (I’ve said this at least 5 times). So, when you remove the grade deflation out of the picture, Cornell is at least as good as Duke for med school placement:
Cornell University Undergraduate Admissions Office - RESOURCES
Cornell’s prelaw acceptance rate is 90%. 90% of students get into a law school. I’m sorry EAD, you can’t dispute this and say the law school our students go to matters because 1) They go to many top law schools (Harvard is one of the most represented law schools among grads) and 2) this is the definition of law school acceptance rate- how many kids get into any law school. Show me Duke’s and then we’ll talk.</p>
<p>3) EAD,
Your Wall Street Journal citation is ultimately flawed. It takes the number of students from a university that get into top schools and divides that number by the total number of students (14,000 for cornell vs 6000 for duke )at the university, to obtain its rankings.</p>
<p>Cornell’s class is well over double Duke’s, and hotel, architecture, and agricultural students have no interest in going to top med/law schools. These kids don’t even apply to top med/law/b-schools, hence lowering Cornell’s rating! If this statistic were the number of kids who go to top schools over the number of kids who apply, then I would concede this to you. If you can find this new statistic, do so, and I guarantee you there will be virtually no difference between Duke/Cornell. This shouldn’t be too difficult to understand, you are a brilliant genius of Duke student after all.</p>
<p>4) No rational argument can be made without anecdotal evident about which school is more prestigious or which school more people have heard of so stay away from this topic. I’ll admit I’ve tried to make one before, but it can’t be done.</p>
<p>Jeez everyone is so tied up with the fact that the DEAN of Admissions said that. News flash: he’s human. Look at MIT’s Dean of Admissions - she was forced to resign when it was discovered that her resume was fake. But, she was the DEAN of Admissions. Can you believe that? The actual Dean of Admissions made a mistake!! </p>
<p>And I’m not implying Duke’s Dean deliberately lied. I’m just saying his statistics are not correct - there’s no possible way he could accurately know those stats.</p>
<p>“This cross admit statistic is stupid. First of all, the statistic you provide is flawed, as it is self-reported. Second, even if it weren’t flawed, it suggests nothing. What was the statistic you provided? I believe it was that 75% of the students who got into Duke and at least one of the following schools (JHU, Northwestern, Cornell) chose Duke. Since individual cross admit rates are not given, this statistic is essentially worthless. It could be that 100% of Duke/Cornell cross admits chose Cornell, 0 percent of the Duke/ Northwestern cross admits chose Northwestern, and 0 percent of the Duke/JHU cross admits chose JHU, and no one would ever know. Hence the statistic is useless”</p>
<p>What you say makes no sense to me here. The Director noted that for JHU, Northwestern, and Cornell, the cross-admit is around 75% in favor of Duke. (For all three schools). How is that number ambiguous?</p>
<p>How could it possibly be 100% or 0%?.</p>
<p>Coolman.. read my first point in post 422. Even if the statistic is true, it carries no weight.</p>
<p>“And I’m not implying Duke’s Dean deliberately lied. I’m just saying his statistics are not correct - there’s no possible way he could accurately know those stats”</p>
<p>College Directors of Admission DO know what they are talking about. Especially the directors of these top universities since they continually seek to win over cross-admits from peer schools. These numbers are highly important, and they are certainly not trivial enough to forge these numbers out of thin air. At the very least, these numbers are just as reliable as the WSJ survey.</p>
<p>Hallowarts - the cross admit rate is for all three schools combined. Duke can have done really poorly with Cornell Cross admits but done really well with the cross admits of the two other schools mentioned, hence bringing the rate at which Duke wins cross admits AMONG ALL THREE SCHOOLS to 75%</p>
<p>last time i checked, princeton adcom tried hacking into Yale and other school’s admission database to see which of its applicants cross-applied to other schools. (it was big in the news so you guys prob’ly heard of it as well – it might not have been princeton but it was one of HYPSM)</p>
<p>so these school officials have no idea which kids applied to which colleges unless they <em>voluntarily</em> give out the information to the school. and like someone else pointed out earlier, any statistical information build up by <em>voluntary data</em> is “useless” as stated by a certain professor in cornell (he wasn’t talking about admission data anyway- purely some statistical study). now, if you want to dismiss what our stat professor thinks, be my guest cuz i won’t be surprised.</p>