<p>
There is a great deal of truth to this–the only thing wrong is that it doesn’t necessarily take you all the way to the very top of the pile.</p>
<p>"Other fields are different from medicine, though. "
-not to argue, but to point to couple “other fields” in addition to medicine and I am sure there are more. I am specifically familiar with CS / IT and engineering. Vast majority in these fields are hired locally. I have been in IT for over 30 years (switched from engineering, which I did not like) and my H. has been an engineer for his entire life. OK, another field - “Graphic design”, both my S. and his W. are Graphic Designers. No any kind of elite schools in our family or families of all Programmers, Engineers and Graphic Designers (very many) that we know.
I heard that UG school might be important for Law, but again if you do not get great college GPA and decent LSAT score, I do not think you will get accepted to a Law School. Well, one more example, my nephew was teaching math to sophomores at U of Chicago and is a math prof. currently somewhere else. His degree is not even from American college altogether. Do not know any more exmples, no investment bankers or plumbers,…etc. in our family</p>
<p>She’s lived here for how many years and hasn’t figured out that many people achieve middle to upper middle class success without a HYPSM degree? Is she not aware that a lot of people in this country live quite nicely based on what they make from owning small businesses (say, a chain of restaurants, hair salons, car dealerships, etc.) where an elite degree is irrelevant? How does she reconcile what she grew up with, with the reality that is in the front of her eyes?</p>
<p>I mean, to me, this sounds like if I moved to China and felt strongly that my kid’s volunteer work helping little old ladies cross the street would be of tremendous relevance to their admission to Chinese universities. I might feel it, but it wouldn’t be congruent with reality.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl, my only disagreement with what you are saying is that I think you have a too generous opinion of the ability of many people to perceive reality. I think there are plenty of people born in this country who don’t, won’t, or can’t perceive the reality that’s in front of them.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Another way of putting this is - there is work ethic in finding out how to solve problems that have already been solved quicker / more expeditiously than anyone else, which is reasonably well-measured with standardized testing (“look how many I got right”!), and there is the creativity in inventing new things and solving problems that people didn’t know they had.</p>
<p>IMO, it’s those people who combine work ethic with vision, creativity and insight who get to the top of the pile. Dutiful work ethic alone doesn’t cut it.</p>
<p>
But sometimes it does, or seems to. Even Harvard takes some high-stats kids without great ECs. This probably feeds the idea that this is the path to success–whereas it’s really a spin of the roulette wheel.</p>
<p>PG, she knows that the state university can provide middle to upper middle class success. But she didn’t move to this country to have children who were middle to upper middle class. She could have had that back in her home city in China, which is today very vibrant economically. Her BIL and sister own a medium-sized business there and live in a luxury condo. She took the gamble to move to the US to hit it big and I think she was far from alone among Chinese immigrants in that regard.</p>
<p>^Hey DIL got promoted to VP, work ethic does got it. This is also my D’s strongest side, very hard worker, always has been according to every single teacher/coach…looks like another one is coming up also - GrandD. Talent is nothing without developed skill. But skill many times will outreach the talent. We do not have millinons of Bill Gates’s, but we do have millions of very hard working people who are very successful. And again, talent is given to you, skill you have to develop thru hard work. And which one you can control? I was amazed at my D’s voice (never had any, not a single voice class in her life) after she graduated with Music Minor. Yep, just practiced singing in duets with some very talented people in Music Major. She is not pursuing music carreer but many definitely noticed her ability developed thru hard work.</p>
<p>
austinareadad-
If Americans are viewed with such distain, why do the Chinese want to move to America?</p>
<p>^ To rise to the top of that pile and take advantage of all of that wealth.</p>
<p>Thanks, austinareadad.
Bear with me as I try to understand this. The US has great wealth, great educational institutions, and great opportunities, but somehow these were all created by a bunch of lazy, stupid people? This is a serious disconnect to me.</p>
<p>My W didn’t believe that Americans were always stupid and lazy, just that they had become so, as people in wealthy societies often do. The Chinese have the benefit of studying thousands of years of Chinese history, and they are very aware of how societies rise and fall over time, much more so than Americans.</p>
<p>Do they believe that only those having a cultural history of many centuries can understand the history of the rise/fall of societies? Apologies if this sounds crass, but is sounds like there is a belief that they can come to the US, take advantage of all the benefits of the country and in essence pull a fast one or take advantage of the stupid, lazy people here now, rise to the top of whatever vocational area they aspire to, skim the funds for their own wealth development… and then what? In the meantime, they’ve spent several decades living amongst these lowerlings who they look down upon, purchasing their (US’s) goods, houses, paying US taxes, and spending the bulk of their (Chinese) lives in a country they look down on. Who is the stupid one? I guess I just dont get it.</p>
<p>
Well, in fairness, that is pretty much what Americans did to a bunch of other countries (and the British, even more so).</p>
<p>What countries are you referring to, Hunt? Are you referring to colonizing countries or missionary work or what?</p>
<p>^^^ My W thinks we are moving towards a situation where political boundaries are less and less important. So people would be able to move freely in the future and take advantage of whatever different environments have to offer them. It is critical to her that our S maintain some Chinese cultural heritage wherever he lives. Of course she also hopes that someday he marries a Chinese woman who maintains that cultural heritage, regardless of the woman’s citizenship or residence. I would guess that many other Chinese people hope that their children maintain their cultural heritage regardless of where they live.</p>
<p>Certainly Chinese history is not the only history of note, and W understands that Europeans and many others share a deep appreciation of history, but Americans in particular seem wilfully ignorant of history.</p>
<p>Well, I’m primarily referring to stripping their natural resources, cheap labor, etc. I just don’t think we’re free of guilt when it comes to thinking people in other countries are stupid and lazy and taking advantage of them.</p>
<p>And the British really did it to China, as in the opium wars.</p>
<p>I see your point, Hunt, as far as going to another location to access their resources, but it seems that it is more for a group gain (e.g. corporate) than a personal gain. The comparison of pursuing opportunities that are present makes sense, but the attitude that the well developed (as opposed to natural) academic, vocational, financial and other resources are here thanks to past generations, now being overseen by stupid, lazy people is hard to swallow.</p>
<p>I don’t want to get into politics, but the idea that America has “gone soft” has some traction domestically as well.</p>
<p>Agree that politics is not relevant to this discussion. And from what I am hearing, the belief system, to take advantage of the educational, vocational and financial opportunities in the US as described by austinareadad is at least a generation old.</p>