<p>It’s not as simple as engineers make more than liberal arts majors. Engineers actually have real careers. Liberal arts degree holders play musical chairs for $12/hour dead-end office jobs. If that doesn’t work out they work at Wal Mart as retail associates.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I don’t think anybody denies that lots of liberal arts degrees enrich people greatly, and should be offered to those who want them. The reason some of us take such vehement stances is that it’s a lot easier to feel high and mighty and feel like one loves learning until it’s time to support a family.</p>
<p>A certain good amount of money lets you pay for good early education for your child from the early years (even if it’s very expensive), lets you have more of a say what neighborhood you live in, pay for basic comforts without thinking, etc. I know someone who had some health issues during college and had to transfer schools, and spend much longer in school - paying for everything became a big reason she had freedom.</p>
<p>The reason people are so extreme at times on this topic is that people give really bogus counter-arguments like “money isn’t everything” - of course it isn’t, and you shouldn’t aim to make it everything unless it really is everything to you. But that’s different from shooting for a well-paying vs. poor-paying job – there are practical, very unselfish reasons for doing that.</p>
<p>One should ENJOY the liberal arts and be ENRICHED by them, but that doesn’t mean one shouldn’t try very, very hard to start developing more marketable skills early on. If that means forcing yourself to take some classes in stuff that you don’t love, do it. You can do a lot of what you love while still doing things you don’t like so much, which could help you support a family later on. The “do what you love” philosophy, frankly, makes it sound like it’s all about you. </p>
<p>Yes, people can support a family on lesser-paying jobs, and live fulfilling lives, but one should seriously consider that basic well-paying jobs <em>do</em> buy you quite a bit.</p>
<p>A liberal arts major who has a concrete plan to develop a good career and support a family is on the right track, but one who just naively enters “doing what (s)he loves” is probably somewhat selfish, naive, and deluded.</p>
<p>^^What an unbelievably ignorant and unfounded statement.</p>
<p>As to mathboy, I don’t really think anyone is arguing that one should blindly sail through life only doing things they like; I think the reaction that brings about the “money isn’t everything” response are the responses that basically say “money is everything”. You can see a lot of responses in this thread that basically write off a liberal arts education as utterly useless, and that by taking “a few writing courses”, one will have achieved the depth of education and thought that are found in traditional liberal arts majors, and the fact is that really isn’t true. Taking an engineering major is laudable and a great choice to make, but it is not the same as completing a long four year study of philosophy or reading the classics in detail, and those skills that you acquire in these majors cannot be replicated by taking a few liberal arts courses on the side. </p>
<p>I’m not arguing that the liberal arts are “better” than engineering, they’re different; engineering is certainly a far safer choice with more assurance in job security, but some people here act like it is the ONLY path to a productive and happy life.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I would normally be fine with your post, but it makes me shudder a little, because you’re presenting only one side of the point, at least to my knowledge, and I don’t like that.</p>
<p>There are very good reasons to be alarmed and frustrated at the tendency to major in the liberal arts without a strong view towards what you can do in the future. People who do it knowingly and know what they’re doing are fine, but I am extremely against a one-sided post beginning with “I don’t understand why people…” when you really should understand. Of course, banning liberal arts is probably not a majority of people suggest - try to take the bitter point home.</p>
<p>100% what Classicskid said!</p>
<h2>Taking an engineering major is laudable and a great choice to make, but it is not the same as completing a long four year study of philosophy or reading the classics in detail, and those skills that you acquire in these majors cannot be replicated by taking a few liberal arts courses on the side ~ Classicskid</h2>
<p>Who is trying to replicate the major or those skills? Why would we replicate something that isn’t useful? A few college level writing courses provides exactly enough depth for a engineer (or some other practical major) to succeed in 99% of business environments. </p>
<p>Everything else is just over-kill.</p>
<h2>You can see a lot of responses in this thread that basically write off a liberal arts education as utterly useless, and that by taking “a few writing courses”, one will have achieved the depth of education and thought that are found in traditional liberal arts majors, and the fact is that really isn’t true ~Classicskid</h2>
<p>Nobody has made that argument, and nobody is saying that a few writing courses equal a writing intensive major like English.</p>
<p>What we are saying is that a few writing courses provides more than enough depth to equip people for the demands of the working world.</p>
<p>I was a Poli Sci major, which is very writing instensive. None of that sort of writing is used in real life and it really doesn’t have a practical application upon graduation. Unless you want to become some sort of professional writer.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I actually agree with this statement, which is something, because as bigeast can tell you I push the usefulness of the Classics major in particular, and humanities majors in general. Most humanities majors should be seen as prep work for grad/professional school. There are ways to be successful in life with a plain BA, but it will take a lot of work.</p>
<p>I push the Classics major to people who are undecided because of its versatility when it comes to what you can do (Med, Law, MBA, PhD), and as such I think it is a great major for those who do not have much of a plan. At the same time I think it would be foolish not to at least have a general idea of what they want to do after undergrad, and certainly after sophomore year they should have some sort of plan ready. For those who do not want to do more than a BA, the definitely need to have a more solid plan ready when thinking about this or any humanities major.</p>
<p>I’m surprised that everyone is ignoring the 800 pound Gorilla in the room. Most of the jobs in the US economy are created by small companies. Businesses started up by people tired of working a “job” for a “boss”. The best way to become self employed is to keep your eyes open for new ideas at all times, and be willing to take a risk once you hit upon one. </p>
<p>This is where a Liberal Arts education would come in handy. Being able to think outside the box and incorporate ideas from a number of disciplines would provide a better base than a narrowly focused technical degree. I’m in no way casting engineers as being unproductive, but it is important to know that simply creating something new will not get it sold(plus, most businesses now being created are in the service sector anyways since we as a country have abondoned our manufacturing base to cheap overseas suppliers). It takes a creative and outgoing person to make the connections necessary to get the ball rolling. Having a background in economics, finance, psychology, sociology, marketing, advertising, communications and a general understanding about what makes businesses and consumers tick are all required for success. Simply “building” a better mousetrap will not work. Less that 4% of the patents written generate enough income to even cover the cost of the patent. It takes a strong willed and open-minded person behind it to push it to success. </p>
<p>I speak from personal experience. I graduated from a large state university in 1985 with a BA in Finance. I worked in my field for about 6 years, then out of the blue I was struck by an idea for a new product. Because my education included many of the “soft” classes, I was able to draw together from these various fields a working plan to get my invention out to market and the passion to make it a success.</p>
<p>And speaking of success. For all you young 'uns that want to simply measure it in monetary terms, the richest people I know are all self employed plus they have the flexibility in their lives to truly enjoy their wealth!</p>
<p>^^^ There is no correlation between creativity and college majors.</p>
<p>Some of the most innovated new businesses and sectors are being started by people with tech backgrounds.</p>
<p>Many successful entrepreneurs have no college education whatsoever, so saying that the liberal arts is somehow more beneficial for self-ownership is silly. </p>
<p>Also, I don’t consider Finance, Econ and Business to be a humanities - which is really the core of this discussion I think.</p>
<p>^I would argue that a business degree from anywhere but the most elite schools is probably the least useful degree out there. It has essentially become the general studies major.</p>
<p>Economics is a social science, which I would lump with the humanities, though there is a distinction, and it is far more useful than business.</p>
<p>Finance isn’t really one of the humanities, or a social science, and I would put it in a category of its own, maybe with accounting, and again, is far more useful than business.</p>
<p>This isn’t discounting business degrees from elite institutions like Wharton, McIntire at UVa, and even Kenan-Flagler at UNC, but saying that a general business degree from a no-name state school won’t do an individual that much good.</p>
<p>^^^ Business provides a much better background for students who wish to work in the private sector than a humanities degree, which provides zero practical knowledge.</p>
<p>For jobs in HR, sales and other business units a business major is as good as anything else, far more practical than a humanities degree.</p>
<p>Also, at least in my school, Econ was in our School of Business, along with Accounting, Business, and Finance. </p>
<p>I mean if you were going to hire for an entry level position in sales, would rather have a Business major or a Classics major? A Business major or a History major?</p>
<p>A Business major combined with a good internship can put students on a pretty good track, and prepares them well for a future MBA or other business related master programs.</p>
<p>Most of the job postings I’ve been seeing require a degree in Business, or other related field - marketing, for example. I never see business job adds requesting Classic, History, Sociology, Poli Sci, or other humanity degrees, at least not for your typical private sector jobs. I guess those degrees might be better looked at in the non-profit area, at least in position that require to work directly with your cause (homelessness, mentally ill).</p>
<p>Keep in mind that I mentioned small business. I’m not just thinking about billion $ high tech companies. There are 1,000’s of companies with million dollar annual sales that provide a fantastic life for their founder. </p>
<p>Without a broad understanding of business principles, the chance of upstart success diminish greatly. “Cash flow is King” is tought in Econ not Physics.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>There’s a very stark, distinct difference between the humanities and social sciences, such as economics. Economics provides the framework and a set of powerful, quantitative tools to analyze multitudes of ideas, interactions, and systems. The humanities do not do this. I think it’s very disingenuous to lump economics (a social science) with the humanities.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I don’t know what economics courses you have taken, but I’ve never heard that before. Cash flow is an idea central to finance, not economics.</p>
<p>Keep in mind that I mentioned small business. I’m not just thinking about billion $ high tech companies. There are 1,000’s of companies with million dollar annual sales that provide a fantastic life for their founder. </p>
<h2>Without a broad understanding of business principles, the chance of upstart success diminish greatly. “Cash flow is King” is tought in Econ not Physics. ~ Lawrenzo</h2>
<p>Your choice of college major has little to do with success in business, so making that argument is silly. However, you mentioned you were a Finance major, which I think does a good job at providing practical skills. The degrees we are discussing are things like Classics, History, ect. - not the business related majors which I think are useful.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>The one that has the most personality. Most entry level jobs simply require a degree, it can be in anything. The Classics major who can make the HR guy laugh will have a much better chance than a dull business major and vice-versa. This is because in most jobs, you pick up the skills on the job.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>To have any major success they will still most likely have to go back and get an MBA, which a humanities degree prepares an individual just as well for. Don’t take my word for it take the word of the co-founder of Adobe (Classics), the CEOs of American express and Barkleys (BA in history), Carly Fiorina (ex CEO of HP, BA Philosophy). </p>
<p>And yes, I know that there are more people with business, finance and econ degrees as CEOs. My point is that a humanities major can get an MBA just as easily as the business major.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Most jobs require a degree, and recommend some sort of business experience. A humanities major at No-name-state-school has just as good a chance of an internship or some job related experience as the business major.</p>
<p>On another thread I believe it was you who noted how science/math majors run to the humanities because it is too hard. Look at your average universities majors with the highest GPA, it will usually be business, and not because they are all brilliant. At most non-top universities the business major has become a joke. Like I said, you might as well rename it general studies. A humanities major from the same school is on equal footing because of this and the fact that entry-level jobs, like most of life, depend on networking and people skills.</p>
<p>Where is the darn spell check on this forum anyways.</p>
<p>Bottom line- I have a friend with an Engineering degree that used to work at JDS who now makes a very good living selling stretch creams and lotions. Another friend with a technical degree who made millions selling doggie poop bags. What you study, and what you end up doing later in life often times has very little correlation. Getting some LA course work in conjunction with an Engineering degree would simply expand your horizons.</p>
<p>Also, all the good looking ladies are in liberal arts.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Finally, something we can agree on!</p>
<p>On another thread I believe it was you who noted how science/math majors run to the humanities because it is too hard. ~ Tonyballino</p>
<hr>
<p>Not sure what you are trying to say? That humanity degrees are harder than Math/Science degrees? If so, you are completely wrong. Humanity programs are much more simple than something the requires technical skill.</p>
<p>Compaing the difficulty level to a major like sociology v. chemistry isn’t even close.</p>