<p>My daughter met a brilliant engineering student at Cornell, over 4.0 GPA. The student went to a small, no name, public school that didn't send students to top schools. Cornell was the best school he got into (turned down by Princeton, MIT). This student probably deserved a spot at any of those top schools, but I believe his HS didn't have any track record with those schools, so he was not admitted. I think it was more of a reflection on his school than on him.</p>
<p>Oldfort, with all due respect, I think it's a shame if you think that it's a shame that getting into Cornell was the best school he got into.</p>
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This student probably deserved a spot at any of those top schools, but I believe his HS didn't have any track record with those schools, so he was not admitted. I think it was more of a reflection on his school than on him.
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<p>MOST deserving students who applied did not get into Princeton and MIT. Not a reflection on the high school or the student -- just on the number of applicants to seats available.</p>
<p>How would she know it's a better fit between Colgate and Williams, if she wants a LAC? I could see if it's between Colgate and UPenn, different schools.</p>
<p>I am an immigrant, I made myself "fit" into this place (for a perceived better life), my kids could deal.</p>
<p>Is it harder to get into Princeton or Cornell?</p>
<p>Does it matter?</p>
<p>oldfort, if your kid liked one school better than another, but the school your kid liked wasn't as highly ranked as the other school, would you insist that your kid go to the higher-ranked school? </p>
<p>If you'd insist that the kid go to the higher-ranked school solely because it's higher ranked by a magazine, you need this tee-shirt!</p>
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This student probably deserved a spot at any of those top schools, but I believe his HS didn't have any track record with those schools, so he was not admitted.
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<p>Oldfort: Posters are providing evidence that your theory is incorrect. Kids from "no name" schools do get into the country's top colleges. Are there good reasons to send kids to top high schools? Sure. Rich curriculum, top-notch faculty, varied, well-funded EC opportunities. Might college counseling offices at top high schools have relationships with college admissions offices? I suppose so. But top students can and do gain admission to top colleges even when their high schools have absolutely no "track record" with college admissions offices.</p>
<p>Both Princeton and Cornell are very competitive. Of course, why would one choose to apply to Princeton when Cornell is in Ithaca? Ithaca is gorges, after all!</p>
<p>But this is going off-topic. oldfort, do you understand the point I was making? Dad II's conclusion from the data at which he looked to get to that conclusion isn't necessarily correct.</p>
<p>To me, it looks as though Dad II needs to convince himself that he did the "right thing" in sending his D to the high school he sent her to; he wants external validation that sending her there was a good decision. He looks at the data available to him to help him get that external validation -- he draws a conclusion that cannot be safely drawn from the available data. He draws that particular conclusion because it supports his decision to send his D to the school that's further away.</p>
<p>Not a safe conclusion to draw, but hey, it's the one that makes Dad II happy.</p>
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My daughter met a brilliant engineering student at Cornell, over 4.0 GPA. The student went to a small, no name, public school that didn't send students to top schools. Cornell was the best school he got into (turned down by Princeton, MIT). This student probably deserved a spot at any of those top schools, but I believe his HS didn't have any track record with those schools, so he was not admitted.
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<p>Well, I bet 90% of the applicants who apply to Princeton or MIT "deserve a spot" (in the sense that they're smart and accomplished enough) but that doesn't mean anything. The vast majority of those students get turned down, as you well know, and it's not a reflection on that, simply that there are too few spots at those schools to accommodate all the students deserving of them. How would you know whether it was the high school or simply ... that kid didn't get in?</p>
<p>And don't you think college admissions folks aren't stupid -- they KNOW that (within the world of public hs, for example) that High School A is in an area of highly educated parents, lots of prestige-desires etc. and that High School B may offer equally good academics but for whatever reason the students tend to stay more in-state or local? I mean, come on now. Of course they know that.</p>
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It doesn't make you a prestige whore just because you want your kids to go to top 20 schools.
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<p>It does if the reason that you want them at those schools is because they are top 20, regardless of whether they are a good fit for your kids' particular interests or needs.</p>
<p>Egads, didn't anyone on this thread get what they wanted for dessert tonight?</p>
<p>My point was the kid that got into Cornell, he was the only kid that got into a top 20 schools from his high school (he was the best). Schools like Millburn High, Palo Alto high or some Westchester high schools, sending kids to Cornell is like sending kids to public schools (it's like a mini reunion for some of those kids at Cornell). You can't tell me other no name high schools don't have just as qualified kids as those top ranking high schools. </p>
<p>I don't know what Dad II was trying to come across, but I do think high school matters, especially for top 20-5% students.</p>
<p>Gotta back owlice here the answer is "all of the above." The "datapoint" that Dad II offers is no more meaningful than any other anecdotal tale. Sure a high school can make a big difference but the kid and the parents are as great and can be far greater parts of the equation. A driven child with parents who are tuned in will go as far as any kid of equal talent anywhere regardless of the prestige. In fact with the desire for more diversity on campuses it can be an advantage to come from a town where there were no high school choices and you had to take what you can get in the form of AP and honors classes. </p>
<p>In addition what I have gleaned here is that most GCs are steering students towards the publics in their immediate vicinity. So...it's the kids who desire more and the parents who desire to help them get it that make the difference for what seem to be most of us.</p>
<p>oldfort, I'm betting that you have NO idea how many kids in that Cornell student's high school applied to top 20 schools. He might have been the only one.</p>
<p>I hate to be the one to break it to you, but not everyone wants to attend a top 20 school. Some students, even fabulous students who are every bit as good as kids who get into the top 20 schools, don't apply to them.</p>
<p>Hard to believe, or CC wouldn't be so active.</p>
<p>Most people do not have options when it comes to high school, therefore high school doesn't matter.</p>
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<blockquote> <p>I maintain it's the kid, not the HS. A HS can lift up a kid higher than he/she might otherwise be, but a kid who really is capable of getting into a "higher ranked" school can get there no matter what.<<</p> </blockquote>
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<p>I think it's both. It's clear the concept of the "feeder school" exists - a high school that has a strong track record of getting its top kids into certain high-end colleges. </p>
<p>And I think the concept of the "anti-feeder school" (a term I just now made up) also exists - a school that just can't get any kids into a certain top school no matter how good those kids are. Case in point - our local mediocre public high school that both my Ds attended. It gets one or two kids, usually the val and/or sal into one or more of the HPSM schools each year. But Yale is out of the question. Yale has never accepted a kid from our high school in the entire living memory of the school. Many of the high end kids have tried, hoping to be the exception, but we are 0 for forever.</p>
<p>So when you say it's the kid and not the HS, I have a hard time believing that none of the kids who got into Harvard, Princeton, or MIT weren't also qualified for Yale. But Yale clearly doesn't see it that way. It's gone on for decades - far too long to be just bad luck or coincidence. For Yale it's the school. Our school is clearly not on Yale's list of worthy high schools.</p>
<p>Ok, I am going to have my desert now and finish the laundry. It has been a nice chat.:)</p>
<p>coureur, why are those kids who got into Harvard, Princeton, MIT qualified to get into Harvard, Princeton, MIT? Because of the high school?</p>
<p>I'm betting... not.</p>
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<blockquote> <p>I'm betting... not.<<</p> </blockquote>
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<p>I'm betting it's at least part of the story. Because I'm convinced that the kids from our school who graduate ranked say #4 to #10 would be able to get into one of the HYPSM schools with their exact same stats, achievements, and essays if they were graduating from the snotty famous feeder school located 15 miles away. But it's clear that the top schools don't take a cut that deep into our graduates. For us it's graduate 1st, 2nd, or 3rd or be a recruited athlete or else HPSM is not going to happen for you.</p>
<p>And conversely, far fewer of the 20 or so yearly high-end kids from the snotty feeder school would be getting into HPSM if they were coming out of our school with its mediocre reputation. And NONE of them would be getting into Yale. </p>
<p>The kid is part of the equation. The school is part of the equation.</p>