<p>Folks, I simply provide one datapoint to those who may be interested. You don't have to personally attack me nor putting so many words in my mouth. If you have a different opinion, state that and let's have a civil discussion.</p>
<p>I never said the school is the sole factor and I did not say these apply to every school, and I did not say every one must attend a top 20 school to be successful.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Vivi - you are naive in believing that. Why do you think real estate value is much higher around higher ranking schools?
[/quote]
My belief of the worth of high school on a person's future does not mirror the belief of the general populace. In fact it's one of the characteristics of central Texas Asians that I rather despise.</p>
<p>Money may have something to do with it, Dad II. You left out that "datapoint."</p>
<p>Yes, we all want to validate how we have raised our kids. One thing I do not understand is why often these types of discussion gets down to name calling - prestige whores...?</p>
<p>If it's a choice between Colgate and Williams. It would be Williams unless she could give me a very compelling reason. "I think it would be better fit," wouldn't really cut it . Based on what would it be a better fit? My daughter is a very mature young lady, she understands the scarifice we have made for her eduction, therefore a school needs to be more than just to make her happy for 4 years of her life.</p>
<p>I don't think anyone here ever said CC or a "local college" leads to unemployment, at least I do not believe the only reason to get a good education is to get good employment. There is learning for the sake of learning.</p>
<p>To answer some of the personal attacks, I did not pick this HS. </p>
<p>Our DD strongly objected to our move while she had alreay one year in HS. So, we agreed that she will be the one to pick the HS. DW drove both kids to three local HS recommended by the realtor. One runs on a trisemester schedule that felt odd by the kids. At another school, the QC showing them around 100% turned the kids off. At the school they picked, the GC welcame them like a family member. DD told me how warmly and personally she felt by the QC. The gentleman made such a good impression on the kids, they picked the school which truely welcome them. </p>
<p>The house at this school is actually 1.5X to 2X of other school district. To meet our children's need, we moved from a 4300 Sq Ft new house, and paid more to a 2000 sq ft house that was built in 1960s.</p>
<p>So, I am not trying to validate any thing.</p>
<p>Oldfort--I confess I am just a little surprised that you would have such control over your D's choices.</p>
<p>college choices at our house were about being an educated person, not one bit about which would lead to a better job. So maybe we are talking from such different sets of expectations that there is no purpose to continue.</p>
<p>No goals that I can possibly conceive of in my kids' futures would be impacted by choosing a Williams over a Colgate, or getting into Princeton instead of Cornell. We just don't share the same concerns.</p>
<br>
<blockquote> <p>The house at this school is actually 1.5X to 2X of other school district. To meet our children's need, we moved from a 4300 Sq Ft new house, and paid more to a 2000 sq ft house that was built in 1960s>></p> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>OK...I'm confused...your OP made it seem like you chose the HS that was farther away...not that you moved to a different HS school district. Which is it?</p>
<p>If you were able to move...keep in mind that some families don't have that choice. </p>
<p>That being said...I agree with others. The student is the key element in the process. Our high school was very good for our kids. We also were able to provide them both with some "out of school" EC experiences that were valuable to our kids. Both worked very hard...and both did well. Neither went to a top 20 school. One is at a highly (very highly) ranked Masters university, and the other graduated from a school ranked about 60. </p>
<p>A long time ago (may even have been on the old PR board) I started a thread called "Ranking Shmanking". Neither of my kids chose the colleges they applied to based on the rankings. In fact, we never saw a US news ranking until long after the younger one was enrolled in college. I realize that for some students and families, these rankings are important for some reason. We know lots of kids at top schools. And they come from all kinds of high schools (rural, urban, suburban, private, highly ranked, not so terrific). </p>
<p>There are folks in my community who whine because no one from our HS has ever been accepted to Yale. Well...the reality is that a VERY very small number of students have even applied to Yale. I'm not sure the acid test on the quality of a high school is the number of students accepted at top 20 schools...but that is just my opinion.</p>
<p>mammall, you wrote
[quote]
... ... Not only do I think they were hurt by their curriculum, I also think these kids got a falsely positive sense of their chances in college admissions by spending four years in an environment where the faculty and other students thought they were brilliant.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I could not agree more about the false sense part. </p>
<p>The old school district had 7-9 grade in junior high and 10-12 grades in HS. When participated in some regional academic contests as the 10th graders, DD and her friend consistantly outperformed some 12th grades from all local HS. She basically developped a sense that she did not really need to work very hard to get to the very front of the line.</p>
<p>It amazes me how unfacile people are with numbers. EVERY high school in the country can't send a dozen or more kids to top 20 schools. There. Just. Isn't. Room. </p>
<p>Can someone answer me this (I don't have the data):
Just looking at the USNWR rankings for national universities (and recognizing that LAC's are looked at separately and they are just as fine) ...</p>
<p>Can you cum up the # of spots available in each freshman class? (not the accepted spots, but the actual # of spots available / size of class)</p>
<p>So ...</p>
<h1>1 Princeton # of spots in freshman class xxxx</h1>
<h1>2 Princeton, Harvard (is that #2? I don't even know) cum # of spots in freshman class xxxx</h1>
<h1>3 (whatever), cum xxxx</h1>
<p>....etc</p>
<p>down to either top 20 or top 30?</p>
<p>That would be VERY insightful, to see how truly few spots there are.</p>
<p>There are 35,000 hs -- if you just took all their valedictorians (for the sake of argument) and populated them ... how far down the tree would you go to ensure they all got a spot?</p>
<p>Pizzagirl - I suggest you take a look at TokenAdults chart showing cummulative numbers of students at various SAT composite scores and cummulative numbers of students accepted at top schools. In fact, there is evidence that at the high end of qualifications, there is ample opportunity to find a spot at a top school.</p>
<p>Even fewer than one might think, Pizzagirl, according to this:</p>
<p>
[quote]
According to Dan Golden's fine book, "The Price of Admissions" (I think I have this right) only about 40% of the spots at highly competitive universities are open, that is, being battled out among kids on a level academic playing field. The other kids slip into niche admits with lower academic requirements- legacy admits, development admits, sports admits, Title 9 guarantees, URM admits, faculty children admits, blah, blah, blah).
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Source: <a href="washingtonpost.com">url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/community/groups/index.html?plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat%3aa70e3396-6663-4a8d-ba19-e44939d3c44fForum%3a5093b309-eb0a-47e2-b777-ea68b9dd478eDiscussion%3a6573435a-4b76-4c7a-b75e-95a274c83493</a></p>
<p>oldfort, I wasn't calling anyone here a PW... yet, anyway! :D The term -- which I did not invent -- exists for a reason, and if some people here do indeed have the attributes of a PW, well, they do.</p>
<p>garland - where did you get from my posts that I said better schools lead to better jobs. Having a good relationship and understanding with you kids, doesn't necessary equate to control.</p>
<p>Let's use a set of very common example to discuss this topic. Chairman Mao said this perfectly, there is an internal factor and there is an external factor. W/o the internal factor, the external factor will have no effect. </p>
<p>Let's take one batch of grass seeds, put some in a very rich soil, water it regularly, and provide adequate sunlight - sample A. Put some of the same batch of grass seed in a regular dirt and feed water once in a while and sunlight some times - sample B. In sample C, we used the same rich soil, and the same rich environment as sample A except putting in no seed. </p>
<p>What will be the outcome of the experiment? Most of seed in sample A will grow better than those in sample B, while having the same fundations. Some grass in sample B, however, will be just as tall and green as the best in sample A. Of course, there will be no grass in sample C.</p>
<p>So, family, community, school, etc are all part of that environment our kids need to grow. At a "better" high school, the peer are more competitive and teachers could go fast and cover more materials. </p>
<p>There are just too many factor a good HS could benefit a driven student.</p>
<p>OF, some poster here may have a reading problem.</p>
<p>On the other hand, I really don't have much control over which school she would attend, except $$. We said, this is what we could afford so we will only pay for these schools. </p>
<p>About a month ago, we visited some relatives. One of them had three children, all are lawyers now including a Harvard law graduate. We talked about school related stuff. The children made it very clearly that they were hurt by things their father said regard their school and career selection. The kids asked me to back off and let DS and DD make their own choice. </p>
<p>On one hand, I saw the results of their father's pushing - highly successful lawyers making big $$. On the other hand, I also see that kids could be happier had they pursued their own dream. who is right? I really don't know.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl - I suggest you take a look at TokenAdults chart showing cummulative numbers of students at various SAT composite scores and cummulative numbers of students accepted at top schools. In fact, there is evidence that at the high end of qualifications, there is ample opportunity to find a spot at a top school."</p>
<p>Thanks. Would you mind telling me where I might find it?</p>
<p>
[quote]
On one hand, I saw the results of their father's pushing - highly successful lawyers making big $$. On the other hand, I also see that kids could be happier had they pursued their own dream. who is right? I really don't know.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>So, unhappy, frustrated lawyers who would rather be doing something else is a good outcome for you, simply because they make big $$? I would never want that outcome for my kids. </p>
<p>I know there are people who push their kids into medicine or law or whatever because they see it as lucrative, but what kind of person would do that to their child? I can certainly see giving advice as to what might be more employable than not, but to insist a kid follow a specific career path to fulfill the parents' dreams or wishes is just disgusting.</p>
<p>Dad II. The children of your relative said it very clearly. They were deeply hurt by things their father said regarding school / career selection. Those scars can run quite deep. They specifically advised you to back off on your children's selections. How can you be "unclear" as to which is better? It's as plain as the nose on your face.</p>
<p>Oldfort--Perhaps I was mistaken. I was replying to this:</p>
<p>
[quote]
If it's a choice between Colgate and Williams. It would be Williams unless she could give me a very compelling reason. "I think it would be better fit," wouldn't really cut it . Based on what would it be a better fit? My daughter is a very mature young lady, she understands the scarifice we have made for her eduction, therefore a school needs to be more than just to make her happy for 4 years of her life.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>It seemed to imply that first, because of the difference in rank, you wouldn't accept a choice of Colgate over Williams unless adequately defended, and second, because of economic sacrifice, there needs to be a tangible outcome which I took to mean economic reward attached to the higher ranked college.</p>
<p>Again, perhaps I misunderstood.</p>
<p>You misunderstood. I believe in education for the sake of learning. I discuraged her from going into undergraduate business school even though she had aspiration of going into finance because I wanted her to have a well rounded education. By going to a tougher school may make her less happy (having to work harder), but at the end, I believe she would get more out of her education.</p>
<p>"On one hand, I saw the results of their father's pushing - highly successful lawyers making big $$. On the other hand, I also see that kids could be happier had they pursued their own dream. who is right? I really don't know. "</p>
<p>That is so sad. The father is happy just because his kids have prestigious jobs and diplomas from prestigious schools. The kids could have been happier if only they had been able to pursue their choices. My own kids have made their decisions based on what they want, not their parents' desires. I admit I have been disappointed by some choices.....but they have their own lives to live. I've been living mine, now it's their turn. The consequences are theirs to enjoy or regret.</p>