The dominant info from CC is wrong according to the experts.

Applying to College
41

<p>I said he was not a URM, legacy, athlete, etc. First off, a 3.6 and only the top 10% would be near fatal at HYP, but the 1380 would kill it. The 50% SAT Ranges at HYP are 1400-1580. It would be a little better at colleges a little lower than HYP, but not that much until you get out of the top 15 on USNWR. His EC's were good by CC standards but not outstanding.</p>

<p>He applied to WUSTL, Tufts, Emory, Vanderbilt, BU and Rutgers with UMass as a safety. At first, I thought that he had not applied to any real reaches. By February, I had decided that WUSTL, Tufts, Emory and Vanderbilt were reaches and so he added UPitt (rolling admissions) as another safety. In the end:
WUSTL - waitlisted (denied)
Tufts - denied
Emory - accepted
Vanderbilt -waitlisted (denied)
others - accepted</p>

<p>This was according to the numbers. WUSTL, Tufts, Emory, and Vanderbilt were all slight to moderate reaches and the results were probably somewhat random within that group. I would not discourage anyone from applying anywhere so long as they look carefully at the actual schools they have a shot at, and the HYP applications are extra. If he had applied to 4 Ivies, JHU, Duke and a safety, he would be at the safety now assuming that he got in. His was a good outcome since he never did really care about the prestige so much. He loved UPitt because it was downtown.</p>

42

<p>CC is not "causing" anyone to do anything. It is a resource, nothing more.</p>

<p>Individuals must take responsibility for the results for their actions, or lack thereof, in the college search process. I don't post all that often and do not have a kid involved currently in the college search process, but I am interested and try to be helpful when I can. But I expect that any reasonable individual will take anything that I say with a grain of salt...they do not know me...nor I them.</p>

43

<p>im not saying its likely for admission but that doesnt mean it isnt worth applying to one if its your dream school. theres always a chance an essay or some other thing will make all the difference</p>

44

<p>I think CC is a decent resource, though ultimately, the GC at my school was far more accurate about chances and such on every count, and while, like any other online forum where just anyone could post, it's not the end-all, be-all resource on college admissions, I'm generally glad to use it to look up answers quickly to random questions that don't warrant an appointment with the GC. </p>

<p>I did have chances threads - which were excessively silly, but there was a person or two nice enough to PM me encouragement, and while that ultimately didn't change the way I did anything, it's again, still a decent resource. </p>

<p>As for the focus on prestige, since I come from a competitive high-school environment, I'm kind of inclined to think of it as the norm for behavior among students who haven't been through the process yet, and thus easily brushed off.</p>

45

<p>There is a recorded case in the 1954 of someone being hit by a meteorite and surviving. It hit Mrs. Hodge's roof, then her radio, then the floor, and then it bounced up and hit her leg where she was sleeping on her couch. As I said, it doesn't hurt to apply to extreme reaches if you don't take it too seriously. Read some of the posts that are out there now from people who feel rather destroyed by the process, and were completely encouraged by CC to do what they did.</p>

46

<p>I am sorry you are leaving, Dufus. I have enjoyed reading your informed posts. CC does cause some harm, but it also does some good. For example, I used Xiggi's SAT method and almost scored a perfect score. But because of this, if I judged my safeties/matches/reaches by your method of using SATs, every school would be at or near a safety to me, which is clearly not the case. Although CC can cause mass hysteria and misinformation at times, I think it helped me get into all of my schools (including Harvard, Duke, Rice (w/ merit), WashU, Tufts, CMU). I think the most important aspects of CC are to both get advice from people who have gone through the same things, and to share our experiences with people in the same situation now.</p>

47

<p>
[quote]
Well thank you Dufus for your take on it all. Good thing that my daughter didn't ask you for your advice.</p>

<p>My d. just was accepted at a top LAC with a 22% admit rate from the RD applicant pool. Her SAT CR & Math scores are 100 points below the median score of admitted students this year, at the 25th percentile or below for the median 25-75% range reported for 2 years ago. She has a 3.9 UW GPA, 4.1 W.; ranked within top 5 of a class of 165. No awards or honors in high school. 1 AP class, 1 semester only, in 11th grade; taking 3 AP's senior year. She is white, born & raised in California. Parents have advanced degrees. Financial aid applicant who applied with a fee waiver. </p>

<p>While I am sure that you will chalk this up to just one more "anecdote" from someone who managed to do well in the process, I have to note that my d. was admitted to FOUR reach schools, with those SAT's below median at all of them. She applied to 12 schools, rejected by 1, waitlisted at 2, and still waiting to hear from one other (a match/safety). The school that rejected her was Brown. The schools that waitlisted her are less selective than the 4 reach schools that accepted her, & her test scores were comfortably in range at one. </p>

<p>Looking back at the process, all I can say is the biggest mistake I think CC posters make is focusing too much on the value of test scores. Obviously colleges look beyond the scores. My d's strategy was to use her in-state pubic as her safety and to apply to her dream schools - she got into her top 2 choices. </p>

<p>You can't get into a college if you don't apply. That doesn't mean that kids should have a scattershot approach - my daughter targeted her apps well and made sure to give her very top choices the kind of information about herself that would tend to make her an attractive candidate. </p>

<p>But it really isn't all that much about the test scores. They are just one piece of the puzzle, and when a student has other qualities the school is looking for, it can be a very small piece.</p>

<p>Back to this board, and anecdotes. What kept me going through this stressful process was a single post by a girl last year who had gotten into a reach school with scores on each test at least 100 points below median. She didn't say what her particular strength or angle was, other than to mention that she was NOT a URM -- but she did have one piece of advice: don't be afraid to reach.</p>

<p>So whoever that kid was and whatever school she got into: a heartfelt thanks.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Granted, this poster is probably an exception to the majority of "u don't got mad statz u gonna getz rejected n00b r3taahd lo9lololpwn!!!!!" bloodhounds who frequent this site and who would deter many in your daughter's position. (exaggeration intended).</p>

<p>dufus, it might not be a bad idea to keep posting your wisdom, but I understand how it can be frustrating since it's easily drowned out by the less wise. Plus, your son is in... so who cares about these suckas?</p>

48

<p>Dufus, I have an entirely different take. First off, I don't know which forums on CC you tend to frequent but I think if you had posted those stats on the Parent Forum, many would have given a REALISTIC view and have suggested a balanced list with matches in the ballpark of those stats as well as good safeties. Most would say it was out of range for HYP but that a couple reaches are OK to have as you never know and there may be something else compelling in the profile to override less than stellar stats. I do not believe the more informed parent posters on CC would have advised your son to reach higher. I don't think the more knowlegeable posters on CC would have said he had a shot at HYP. When posters on the Parent Forum talk about "instrinsic characteristics" as you put them, they mean that for the most selective universities/colleges, that when all else is equal and a student has the REQUISITE stats to be considered, then other factors come into play since a LOT of applicants to elite schools have high class rank, high SATs, and high GPAs. First, the student would have to have the right stats, however. High stats alone would not do it as too many applicants have those. Most would not say that the "extras" would offset the stats you presented. Nobody would discourage you from trying but would have encouraged your son to have a more realistic list. Most of the posters I have come to know and trust as knowledgeable on CC would not have pushed HYP as schools for your son. </p>

<p>Further, CC is very valuable to many readers in ways that no other source really can be. You can read about a school in brochures, directories, and on their websites and can visit....all crucial to do. But on CC, you often can talk with those who go to those schools, are alum, are parents of current students, have visited, etc. and glean a lot of first hand accounts that you can't read in a book. As well, by sharing experiences, there is a lot to gain.....if someone shares about resume writing, or about interviewing, or about expressing interest in a college, or about athletic recruiting, and so forth, one can come away with lots of information and perspectives that would be difficult to glean any other way quite the same. As well, CC is a form of support in talking with other students or parents going through the same thing. When my kids were applying to college, I never looked to CC for suggesting schools or evaluating stats from lay people but used CC to learn so many other things, as well as support from others going through the same experiences. When reading posts, one must consider the source. If you are going to go by what some strangers say in assessing your stats, that is a mistake. However, sometimes over a period of time, you can get to know some regular posters and decide if you trust their advice and if it is valid advice. CC could never substitute for first hand information. But it serves a great purpose. I also don't see CC necessarily feeding the admissions frenzy. If anything, I learned more and more about the realities of elite college admissions and that the odds were tough and there are a lot of amazing students out there who apply and who also get turned away. If anything, it helped me be MORE realistic, not less, as your post implies. </p>

<p>Lastly, I find it disconcerting that you are using the CC forum as a platform for dissing online admissions forums! You are entitled to your opinion but it seems out of place to be putting down the place you are posting on and let alone that you have a LOT of posts on CC and have obviously opted to benefit or derive something from participating here so frequently.</p>

49

<p>I came onto CC after the applications were already completed last year and CC had no effect on my S's application at all. Since then in this forum I have seen some good advice given out, and I hope that I have helped a few people. The good advice on CC tends to be on small details. The bad advice is on the major issues such as how to choose which schools to apply to. Overall I think that the following "themes" have done more harm than everything positive put together. </p>

<p>1) You have to go to an elite college in order to be anybody in life.
2) The top colleges use an holistic approach and your academic record and SAT scores will be overlooked if you have good EC's and an essay.
3) Any school in the USNWR ranking is better than every other school that is ranked lower, and there is a world of difference between Harvard and Cornell.
4) The admissions process has very little luck involved.
5) Any decent student should apply to 4-5 Ivies, 2-3 of the others like Duke/UChicago/NU/JHU/etc, and one safety.</p>

<p>These "themes" are currently in hiatus since reality has set in, but based upon last year, the rising seniors are going to go thru the whole thing again. </p>

<p>I'm sorry about bringing up the Parent's Forum. I really see it more as a support group for the parents who have their own problems getting thru the process. I don't have a problem dissing online forums in an online forum. It is no difference than writing about problems with the media in newspapers. However, the moderator did cancel my first attempt to start this thread because it was called "CC is a force for evil".</p>

50

<p>Dufus, I already posted on another thread you put up on this same topic. There is so much I have gained from CC and it is not in the areas you describe at all. I never read the chances threads, ever. They are ridiculous to me. Not only couldn't I judge on so little information, but there are lay people giving advice that anyone would be dumb to go by it. I wouldn't use CC to get basic information about colleges but would go to the source. Like your child, my kids never read CC. They would not have the time or inclination. They know I read it and occasionally I would share something I learned or heard. They would never turn to CC to find colleges or to assess their chances, nor would I. </p>

<p>CC goes beyond that and the value lies elsewhere. It is a great source of first hand accounts. Experiences are shared. There is support for the process. You poo poo the Parents' Forum, yet there are knowledgeable and helpful adults on it who help one another but moreover, they help the students who come to them for advice because perhaps their own parents are unavailable, unknowledgeable, uninterested, not supportive, etc. I can't begin to tell you the hours I spend each week helping others as a volunteer and the many emails and PMs asking me for advice. Oops, an email just came from another parent asking my advice on her D's college options. Last night a kid asked me about his options and had many questions...and on an on. I'm far from the only parent on CC who tries to help other students with some guidance. </p>

<p>I participate frequently on the Musical Theater Forum as I have a child in that field. It is currently the best source of information on that specialized process that exists. Ask any parent or student on it and they will tell you how invaluable it has been to help them learn about the process and get them through it. It is not like they have people in their local community or school who know enough to help. This is an example of what CC is about. The real value isn't in evaluating stats or finding colleges....it is all the other stuff, a lot of which can't be found in a book, though should never substitute for books and first hand information at the source.</p>

51

<p>2) The top colleges use an holistic approach and your academic record and SAT scores will be overlooked if you have good EC's and an essay.</p>

<p>This one killed me.</p>

52

<p>Dufus, you are dissing CC, not just on any ole online forum but on the very forum you are dissing and which you have participated in over 3,000 posts. Sorry, but I find that uncool. </p>

<p>Your list of themes on CC....interesting.....I don't believe a single concept on that list. I have read CC for almost four years now. I read some dumb posts and some misconceptions and some weird attitudes that I can't relate to. But I don't conclude any of what you just listed. Others may have those opinions but I consider the source. Posters whom I feel are knowledgeable (assessed by reading their posts over time) don't hold the view you just listed. So, while I may read some kid posting those ideas you listed, I just shake my head...I don't take it as truths. If I listened to what every kid on here wrote and used that as my guide, I'd be pretty dumb. But if I listened to the very knowledgeable posters on here, some are students plus many parents, I will glean much perspectives and information. Read the parents forum and I guarantee you that the majority on that forum whom I have come to know would be the first to dispute #5 on your list. Most would dispute #4 and say at the most elite schools, some luck is involved once you have the requisite qualifications. Most I know and respect, do not go by rankings. I do not and my own kids never did. Most would dispute #2 and say that the holistic approach and the ECs, essays, and recs will be important IF you first have stats in the ballpark. They would say that schools do not ONLY go by stats or otherwise, every accepted student would have the best stats and we would not see accepted students with any lower ones and no rejected students with higher ones. Most of the educated folks on the parent forum would be the first to tell you that one must have stats in the ballpark of an elite school to be considered but once that gets you to the gate, other things get you in the gate and stats alone won't do it. But the other things are not INSTEAD of good stats. As far as #1....there are all sorts of posters....there are some on here, particularly some students, who seem Ivy obssessed. Nobody where we live is like this and my kids never were. But not every poster here is like that. When I read attitudes like that, I don't come away with conclusions like you wrote up...I come away shaking my head and saying, someone needs to talk to that kid and often I post a response.....but I don't read CC and conclude what you have concluded. I just see those posters as having either erroneous information or attitudes I don't relate to. I don't see those posts as "right" and they don't teach me the real information. They show me I need to help them. There are many posters who do not think like those folks who are either misinformed or have some attitude issues. There are all types of people. You have, in this thread, generalized all the posters. I know many many posters who would not agree with #1-5 at all, and would likely post responses to refute those concepts. Many of these posters are on the Parent Forum.</p>

<p>So I agree there is wrong information in many posters' posts on CC but by the same token, there are a lot of really good and helpful posts with the right information. Any reader needs to consider the source and react accordingly.</p>

53

<p>i used to feel enlightened from reading all the stuff in CC. now that i'm at the point where i contribute more than i read, i realize there's a lot of junk out there on CC too. ironically, i feel more enlightened NOT being on CC sometimes. wait till you're a college student and i think you'll know what i mean.</p>

54

<p>I am just talking about how some applicants seem to be getting screwed up in the admissions process because they were on CC. I refer everyone back to the NY Times article. If there is a lot of knowledge in the Parent's Forum, then good and I suppose that it has helped some people. I think that I have helped some people. If I had to judge the overall effectiveness of CC in the last year, then I'd would say that it was a failure as a tool to help high school students in their lives. Even for the people who did get into HYP, I think they learned the wrong lessons.</p>

55

<p>I believe that most people on this thread who are adults are supporting CC, while most people on this thread who are recent applicants are supporting me. I really expected more applicants to post in this thread. There are certainly a lot of other threads out there in the forum right now describing how what I am talking about happened to them.</p>

56

<p>It's all cool, but I just don't get it how an adult people who suppose to work get up to 3000 posts, thats A LOT.</p>

57

<p>Your first post on the thread said you are not going to post anymore but you still seem to be. It seems that before you take your leave of CC, on which you must have found some value as you posted 3,014 times, you will go out with a bang and dump on CC. What is the purpose of these threads, may I ask? If CC truly is a "force for evil" as you claimed on another thread, why don't you leave and start a new discussion forum that does everything right where you control who participates and they better all have the right answers or viewpoints. CC allows all views about colleges and it is up to readers to ascertain which posts are valid and which should be taken with a grain of salt and which are solely opinions and which are even erroneous. Anyone reading an internet forum who comes to it for the real facts is pretty dumb. If they come to share experiences and learn from others' experiences, then it is of value. It is a discussion....not a source of information. ANYONE can post here. Idiots can post here. Most posters are lay people....some are quite experienced or knowledgeable, some are not. This is not a forum of just professional counselors. If you want good information, go to the source, get a counselor, etc. The CC forums are not meant to be anyone's primary source. CC also has free advice columns called Ask the Dean written by a senior counselor at CC who volunteers to answer questions. Read down the entire list of Ask the Dean Q's and A's and there is a lot of free information right there. As well, there are paid counseling services. CC's forums are FREE....if you want the real deal....get the paid services. Otherwise, the free forums are a GREAT deal. There are even professionals who participate on here voluntarily. </p>

<p>So, if you are gonna leave, why don't you? You are welcome to stay but I think you are now taking the liberty to diss CC on your way out the door and I find that distasteful after 3,000 posts. Something kept you reading and participating but let's just point to all the poor posts and wrong attitudes of some posters and let's generalize all of CC while we are at it. So, leave if you want and start your own forum that is the way you wish one to be. CC will do just fine. There are folks on CC who have been here for years and so obviously some really like it. You are entitled not to like it but then why don't you just stop participating, rather than start three threads to diss it on your way out the door?</p>

58

<p>Has anyone noticed that it's hard to find a parent/kid combo on this site? It's filled with over involved parents who micro manage the college "project" and overly ambitious students (yes, me) but few inbetween. At first I was in awe of the parents who spend so much time making things happen for their kids. My parents are very supportive, but I wouldn't call them proactive when it comes to educational decisions. A good portion of the posts on the parent's board are parents doing the resaearch and putting in the effort you expect their kids to do. You really wonder what happens to the kid at the next stage, say a job interview? There's the mom who keeps declaring her daughter got into her reach schools with sub par stats (we can all bet mom wrote the essays and positioned the daughter as super poor), there are parents whose kid has long gone to college who remain to tell us more than the kid knows about the school. There is a parent of a kid at the school where I am going that is so well known for presenting herself as a school expert on this site that people had to warn me who her daughter was on a visit. So the reporter who wrote about obsession was on target. Stick to your plan Dufus, there has to be something more productive for you to do now, and take the critisism from whence it comes.</p>

59

<p>I haven't posted outside of these two threads since I started them except I did post to somebody a minute ago to reassure him that it wasn't his fault that he didn't get into his dream college just because he failed to write a good enough essay. </p>

<p>Your objections seem to be that I have 3000 posts, and that I posting complaints about CC on CC. First, the fact that I have 3000 posts should be to my credit, at least to the extent that it shows I have at least examined CC. Second, where else am I supposed to post complaints about CC. </p>

<p>There are a lot of bad results because of what I am pointing out. Look at some recent posts in this forum. I didn't realize until I started this thread how large and happy the parent population was in the Parent's Forum, but it ain't working for quite a few of the applicants. Sure they made mistakes. Sure they shouldn't have believed everything they read on here. The question to me is whether they would have been better off not being here. For a year, I have tried to help them, not to get into HYP, but to get thru the process successfully. It is hard for me to continue to do that when I think the best advice would be to tell them to leave. I'm trying to help them now.</p>

60

<p>Suze- you are full of s h_t. I notice you have quite a few posts, too- most of them obnoxious and negative, of course. I suspect most of the kids of the other CC parent-posters are every bit as independent and resourceful as my own.</p>