<p>I am probably as familiar with suze's posts as anybody. The only way she has ever been negative is in telling people that prestige is not important, and that they don't have much chance at HYPSM when they really don't. </p>
<p>"you are full of s h_t"??????? lol</p>
<p>
[quote]
Has anyone noticed that it's hard to find a parent/kid combo on this site? It's filled with over involved parents who micro manage the college "project" and overly ambitious students (yes, me) but few inbetween. At first I was in awe of the parents who spend so much time making things happen for their kids. My parents are very supportive, but I wouldn't call them proactive when it comes to educational decisions. A good portion of the posts on the parent's board are parents doing the resaearch and putting in the effort you expect their kids to do. You really wonder what happens to the kid at the next stage, say a job interview? There's the mom who keeps declaring her daughter got into her reach schools with sub par stats (we can all bet mom wrote the essays and positioned the daughter as super poor), there are parents whose kid has long gone to college who remain to tell us more than the kid knows about the school. There is a parent of a kid at the school where I am going that is so well known for presenting herself as a school expert on this site that people had to warn me who her daughter was on a visit. So the reporter who wrote about obsession was on target. Stick to your plan Dufus, there has to be something more productive for you to do now, and take the critisism from whence it comes.
[/quote]
Agree. When parents do more work than their kids in order to get into college - there is something wrong with it. It's cool that you dufus read all those books, but why? Are you going in college or your daughter? If so than why didn't she read them? I believe all parents have to do is just support kid and help him/her with $$$, but not to be involved in admission process or anything.
My parents are very supportive and protective, but when time came for college applications, they didn't do much. My mom didn't even read my essays (though few teacher and my friends read them) cuz she was like "If I'll read it, I'd want to change a lot of stuff".</p>
<p>I agree with suze's post on this too. However, I was very involved in my S's applications. I thought of it more as a personal secretary than a director/coach, though. I somehow just got interested in the application process and he wasn't. It would have been better if he had done the grunt work himself, though. On the other hand, he was doing other stuff.</p>
<p>suze,
not many h.s. seniors get into college these days by having Mommy & Daddy lead them by the hand, make their decisions for them, go to their interviews for them, stand in the bookstore or registration lines. I'm sure that some hovering or helicoptering happens in some unusual situations, but don't for a minute confuse verbal "obsession" with practical action. Ironically, most of the most controlling parents are those who are from certain other cultures & complained about on the boards by student posters aching to get some perspective from parents not their own, & freedom from their own parents; these controlling parents being "escaped from" (& who have selected schools for their teens) are ones who don't post on the boards, but have S's and D's who seek refuge here.</p>
<p>I'm not sure where you get your information (or assumptions) about Moms who "position" applicants, or the family, as poor (for F.A.). That's also hard to do, given asset verification. Not many U.S. citizens hide cash under mattresses these days. There may be some successful cheaters, but they hardly dominate.</p>
<p>Obviously you feel very strongly & very negatively about parents. You seem to think they should completely bow out of the process. I'm glad that works for you. It does not work for a lot of students -- as evidenced by the dozens of posters who indicate they wish their parents were <em>more</em> involved in their education, in the college process, were communicating openly with their students, etc. Now & then one also hears the opposite side (complaining about nagging parents), but most of the parents on CC, as I've seen, try to approach this <em>with</em> their students, & led by their students. They're not interested in supplanting the independent decision process, merely being (gasp!) another set of ears, an older mentor, an educated guide.</p>
<p>You also have some pretty strong opinions (assumptions) about the supposed correlation between avid interest in the higher education of one's child, and the future lack of ability of that student to make his or her own way in the world ("job interviews," etc.). In fact, it has been demonstrated (can be verified statistically) that adolescents with previously strong parental involvement (minus smothering) achieve independence more quickly & confidently -- once they're away from home -- than those who've had to operate without such support for a sustained period of time.</p>
<p>Suze...don't generalize about all parents who participate on the forums. I did not pick my kids' schools. I did not research them for them. They drove the process. They did their apps. I was a support person. I helped line up visits and took them. I read over what they wished to show me. I talked to them about their timelines and checked in. They were motivated to select and apply to schools. I read CC for my own self. It increased my knowledge. I care about my kids' lives and interests and am there to support their endeavors. If I have learned something, I have shared it. I don't tell them what to do. They did the work. They made the decisions. I was a facilitator and support person. I did not truly have a preference for which school they picked to attend. I only wanted to see them happy. I have met many parents on CC like that, but that doesn't mean they are all like that. </p>
<p>I read all sorts of student posts on here. I would never generalize about all student posters. Some are into prestige for instance, but not all are. My kids would not relate to some kids' posts on here, in fact. </p>
<p>Some turn to CC for support, going through similar experiences. When my kids were toddlers, I was in a parent/child playgroup....and shared experiences or information with those in that stage. This is not that different. It interests me because this is what my kids are doing now in their lives. </p>
<p>Some students come here asking parents like me to help them. I have so many emails and PMs right now from students I don't know on CC that I can hardly keep up. Obviously some of them find some of us parent posters a help or support.</p>
<p>Also, I notice you go to Andover, is that right? As a boarding student? If you don't live at home, it is different. As well, you go to an exclusive prep school that has college counselors that are available to guide students in this process. Some folks turn to CC for questions or guidance. For example, I had one child applying to very selective colleges which is not the norm from our rural public high school and one applying to the highly selective BFA in musical theater programs (worse odds than the Ivies), a rarity from our HS and so I learned by talking to others involved in those processes on CC. </p>
<p>Posters need to consider the source. I put more stock in certain posters' posts who have over time demonstrated to me that they know what they are talking about. Others, I just look and sometimes am amazed but I know it is just a discussion forum. </p>
<p>Don't assume that parents who read here are doing it all for their kids. Some are merely interested because they are interested in what is going on in their kids' lives and see themselves as support personnel in that process but secondary to the person DOING the process which is the student. While there are surely parents who are out there who are doing it FOR their kid, please do not lump every CC parent on here as doing that. It is not true. </p>
<p>In my case, you'd never see a parent and child both on CC. My kids were not interested in CC. They were way way too busy to participate. I marvel at the students who have the time to post here. My kids were so busy with school and outside EC interests and homework and college apps, they would never be on CC. Does that mean they weren't involved in the process but only I was? FAR FAR from it! They were so involved, that they would have NO time to be on CC. I have the time, they don't. Whatever I have learned, helps me when I talk to my kids or answer their questions. </p>
<p>Somebody mentioned 3,000 posts....I have nearly 4,000 but I have been on CC nearly 4 years and have gone through two kids' college processes. I have barely ever started a thread to ask a question. I mostly respond to others' posts....I either help answer a question or share my experiences in the context of the topic at hand.</p>
<p>*2 soozievt *
Your info:
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2004</p>
<p>Apr 2006 - Aug 2004 = 1 year 8 months. There is no 4 years...</p>
<p>I'm curious, suze: Why did you need to be "warned" about the student of a CC poster, at your college of choice? Were you afraid of this person? You, who is ready to confront everybody (and tell them off) at a moment's notice? Surely you, the great Independent, has no need to avoid a mere peer.</p>
<p>Well, so much for my break from CC. I guess I have to have somewhere to vent after that agonizing loss to Maryland. :(</p>
<p>Irbis, Soozie was also on the old CC.</p>
<p>PS. If anyone thinks CC is bad, look at *oxohth.com. :eek:</p>
<p>"I believe that most people on this thread who are adults are supporting CC, while most people on this thread who are recent applicants are supporting me."</p>
<p>Dufus, you're entitled to your opinion about this site. However, I believe that your statement is a bit farfetched. There are many subforums on the site and they all tend to have their own fans and ... detractors. </p>
<p>You claim to have helped many people within the realm of this particular forum. Good for you. You also claim that this site is full of BS or any word to that effect. Well, there is an answer for that: post the correct information, explain your position, and even better, back it up with facts. From my vantage point that is a whole better than simply criticizing the contents, and especially the contents and dynamics of forum where your participation has been sporadic, if not inexistent. I am not blaming you for staying away from a number of forums; I do the same! I very rarely participate in this one or the absolutely moronic "What are my chances." which is only slightly worse than a couple of others on CC. </p>
<p>So, is College Confidential a perfect site that is only adorned by perfect information? Hell no, it isn't. On the other hand, it is head and shoulders above similar sites that are seemingly magnets for sheer stupidity, hollowness, and online lewdness. FWIW, your quotation of the NY Times was particularly telling as their own forum languished towards a well-deserved harakiri. Who are they to judge the contents of CC? If is based on the "correctness" of their own education coverage, I'll pass with glee. </p>
<p>I can assure you that hundreds of students -if not thousands- have benefitted for their participation on this site. It may be as trivial as gaining a few points on the SAT, figurinng out the purpose of the essay, or simply understanding the process of financial aid a little bit better. I named students only because your interpretation is that this site appeals mostly to parents who cannot set aside their vicarious instincts. </p>
<p>I'd love to add that some parents have also learned one or two things from their participation, and even from listening to non-parents. </p>
<p>Would you like to join their ranks? It's not too late. </p>
<p>PS I forgot to congratulate on your collection of books, at it represents a better than average set. Now, are you so sure that the information in those books is still valid, timely, or even correct? I guess that the answer may be a bit harder to find.</p>
<p>Irbis, when CC moved from its "old" version to this current version, the members were required to re-register. Anyone with a "member since" date of August 2004 was, in all likelihood, a member of the old CC. Now, I don't know if the number of "post" counter was was re-set at that time or not. I'm not going to count.</p>
<p>PS Warblers, I feel your pain. Between LSU and Duke as my alma maters I had 3 out of the 8 mens/womens Final Four teams. And came up empty. And I have to go to work tomorrow where a Maryland alum is probably camping outside my door as we speak.</p>
<p>"Now, I don't know if the number of "post" counter was was re-set at that time or not. I'm not going to count."</p>
<p>I know that answer: everyone started with a goose egg. In addition there was no post counter on the old forum. However, you can get an idea of the member's contributions by searching for authors. There were several posters with huge numbers of posts. </p>
<p>On this subject, since there was no count, members paid no attention to this issue. The addition of the counter had the unfortunate result to witness the birth of "starcampers" whose sole interest in posting was/is to earn the dubious merit of collecting thousands of posts, with the overwhelming majority being void of any value.</p>
<p>Irbis...just so you know....I found CC right around the time we began even thinking about colleges....the start of my oldest child's junior year of HS. We did not begin before that. I found this site around the summer going into her junior year. That was in summer of 2002. She is now a sophomore at Brown. While my next child is two years younger and thus two grades below my first child, she opted to graduate early and thus her college process overlapped my first child's process and she is now a freshman at NYU/Tisch. They went to college just one year apart. I have stayed on CC's forums as some of them still interest me and I also like to help other students and parents. I also like to share experiences with others, some of whom now have kids in college as we have things in common. It is a supportive place.</p>
<p>I came to CC as a parent initially. I still read and participate as a parent. However, in the summer of 2003, I trained with CC to become a college counselor. While I volunteer on the forums because I want to and enjoy it, I also work as a paid college counselor for those who want individualized counseling, so that is my job when not on the forums as a volunteer. I spend more hours volunteering on here than counseling for fees. But my interest now goes beyond participating as a parent but also I am interested in these topics as this is what I do for my career so I am always learning. I also try to give to others on the forums because I simply want to. </p>
<p>One more thing...I learn a lot by just reading about students from all over the country. It has opened my eyes and increased my perspectives. I also find some of the student posters to be very mature and interesting young people. I have learned a lot about Xiggi's SAT expertise as one example. I've learned so much on CC and I also try to give back.</p>
<p>PS...as someone mentioned, when CC went to the new forum format, we had to reregister and start over. I have been a member for almost four years but the new forum doesn't go back that far. Look on the old archived forums and you'll find me there :D.</p>
<p>I feel like I'm in a PTA meeting now. This is exactly why I don't go on the parent's forum. Wasn't there some discussion about whether or not CC is destructive in increasing the angst over prestige and misleading applicants about the proper way to approach chosing where to apply? Doesn't anyone want to talk about something other than themselves, their own kids, how to parent, how they respect how anybody else involved are good parents, and general BS that sounds good but has no real meaning?</p>
<p>Even the part about not dissing CC while on CC sounds like a PTA meeting. Don't ever say anything about how the teachers can be doing a better job in a PTA meeting!!!</p>
<p>I've gotten four PM's today supporting my position. The last one that I just read is:
[quote]
Hello Dufus,</p>
<p>I agree with your position. </p>
<p>99% of the information here is pure garbage -- just like the rest of the web. I'll refrain from adding my comments to the thread, however, to keep from inflaming "community" opinion.
[/quote]
That is like a PTA too. </p>
<p>Good luck, especially to the applicants.</p>
<p>Gosh dufus, if this forum isn't living up to your expectations, demand your money back.</p>
<p>After a complete year watching how the admissions cycle works from the perspective of high school students on the forum that the high school students use, I have decided that much harm is being done. Just leaving is a little like leaving the drug dealers on the schoolyard, but okay.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Has anyone noticed that it's hard to find a parent/kid combo on this site?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Whoa!!! Don't want to get involved in this wider headache, but here's one parent/kid combo checking in: cami215 and scrapiron215 (Note the family resemblance.) Not only are we a parent/kid combo but son has publicly fessed up to the relationship on the site (otherwise I would not be posting this note). He does his thing and I do mine, although I post more frequently than he does. </p>
<p>I guess it's just not a big thing for either of us. The site is helpful but not the be all and end all of things. I'm not going to get too worked up one way or the other.</p>
<p>dufus,
Are you always so disconnected from your own posts? </p>
<p>Parents were criticized, & rather nastily, by suze, who led the charge against The Evil Ones. (=Another paraphrase from you: re-directed, but it works.) You chimed in, in agreement with suze. And now you claim that <em>others</em> are the ones who want to talk about parenting?</p>
<p>Further, on another similar post on this forum you initiated comments about the supposedly nauseating overinvolvement & congratulatory tone of other parents on PF. (Yet it's only others that want to talk about parenting?) </p>
<p>I think you need to own your words, as they say.</p>
<p>Separately, a whole group that has been villified by a young know-it-all has a right to represent itself in its own defense. I mean, there were accusations of fraud (phony F.A., fraudulently authored essays) & various other elements of character assassination. That is not to mention our incompetence in guiding our offspring to become independent, liberated adults. Sorry if the response is too PTA-ish for you.</p>
<p>Coureur wrote: "Gosh dufus, if this forum isn't living up to your expectations, demand your money back."</p>
<p>LOL! It's funny but SO true. This is a free forum. You're not paying for expert advice. It is a discussion that includes kids, parents, professionals, idiots, scholars, counselors, a few college personnel, etc. It is not an advice place by experts for the most part though some experts participate. It's free. If you want the right information and effective help, you can use the paid services. </p>
<p>If you are staying to participate to help correct misconceptions that many students post here, then good....you contributed and did a good deed. You won't be the first adult on here to do that. </p>
<p>It's like the PTA? Suze made a generalization about....PARENTS. Some of us who are parents, then responded to the topic she brought up! </p>
<p>And what if we do talk about parents and children.....well, on the Parent Forum, it is well....um.....a forum about and for Parents of kids applying to college! I partcipate on some other forums and discuss whatever those forums are on. But THIS one IS about education and is about parents/children. Kinda makes sense to discuss that then. I don't discuss that on a travel forum I read, for instance. </p>
<p>As far as critcizing....your analogy to the PTA is not the same. The PTA is an organization that is for parent input and involvement in the schools. Criticism and affecting change, as well as supporting school endeavors, are part of that process. </p>
<p>CC is a business. CC provides FREE forums as only one facet of that business. It is a service that is meant to be helpful. Not everyone can afford the paid counseling services. The forums are a resource for people to gather and share. But it is owned by a business. So, to come onto that business' site and diss it, when you have no ownership of that business...unlike the PTA where as a parent, you are a member with an interest tied to the education of your children at that school and so you have a right to be critical to affect change in the school and to be proactive within that organization. At CC, we value those who participate. But I do not think it is in good taste to undermine the business that provided you this free "platform" to do that in. It's fine if you criticize CC, no problem. I don't think THIS Is the place...on free forum that CC has provided for you and other participants. Diss CC elsewhere...write an article....say so on another internet forum....etc. But dissing it on the free portion of the site that CC provided FOR you, is simply distasteful in my view. It is not analogous to complaining at a PTA meeting which is set up as an organization of members that try to make changes in, as well as support the school. As a parent, you have a stake in the school. At CC, you are using a free service of a business. To undermine that business is your perogative but do it elsewhere in good taste.</p>
<p>SUZE SAID:
[quote]
Has anyone noticed that it's hard to find a parent/kid combo on this site? It's filled with over involved parents who micro manage the college "project" and overly ambitious students (yes, me) but few inbetween. At first I was in awe of the parents who spend so much time making things happen for their kids. My parents are very supportive, but I wouldn't call them proactive when it comes to educational decisions. A good portion of the posts on the parent's board are parents doing the resaearch and putting in the effort you expect their kids to do. You really wonder what happens to the kid at the next stage, say a job interview? There's the mom who keeps declaring her daughter got into her reach schools with sub par stats (we can all bet mom wrote the essays and positioned the daughter as super poor), there are parents whose kid has long gone to college who remain to tell us more than the kid knows about the school. There is a parent of a kid at the school where I am going that is so well known for presenting herself as a school expert on this site that people had to warn me who her daughter was on a visit. So the reporter who wrote about obsession was on target. Stick to your plan Dufus, there has to be something more productive for you to do now, and take the critisism from whence it comes.
[/quote]
I see nothing insulting or nasty about this post. The discussion of hovering parents is a common topic in the news magazines and newspapers. I don't know how many times I read about professors who are approached by college students about their test grades, but then the student hands a cell-phone to a professor and says my mother wants to talk to you. Suze discusses her own parents and parents of some of her friends. She doesn't mention anyone on CC specifically. I think her real motivation for the post was a large number of posts in the Admissions forum lately from students who talked about being forced to apply to elite colleges by their parents when they didn't think they had a chance and then being verbally abused and then sometimes physically struck when the denial letters come in the mail. Basically, what the HELL are you talking about?</p>
<p>I have myself made disparaging remarks about the parent's forum. I haven't been there enough to really make comments. Some of the posts on this thread have been interesting though if you read them objectively. I wasn't planning on posting again, but came back in time to see your comments about suze's post. What the HELL are you talking about? (rhetorical)</p>
<p>SOOVIEVT:
There was a comment about my demanding my money back. This was a good comment since it made the point. I responded with "Just leaving is a little like leaving the drug dealers on the schoolyard, but okay." which made my point. I don't know what you said but it totally ignored my point and went on about something about the PTA and CC being different because CC was commercial but free and I need to gauge my conduct of speech accordingly because they weren't the same thing.</p>
<p>I do what I want.</p>
<p>*snap
*snap
*snap
*snap
*snap</p>