The end of RD as we know it for elite schools

turns into:

@ucbalumnus, as has been pointed out to you in that thread, the 16K extra loans have already been offered by UT-Austin.

Whether she should take them is a different question, but she’s not unable to fund UT-Austin.

let me try that:

oh cool, it works!!

How about if y’all talk about the UT - Rice decision on the UT - Rice thread? It isn’t relevant to the ED/RD discussion.

But if they are parent loans or parent-cosigned loans, her parents may not necessarily have the borrowing capacity (or willingness).

@intparent I was making a point about the use of “fit” which people often use. When push comes to shove when the money is more or less equal, people encourage the poster to take the higher ranked school.

I used to think this way (and still do re visits/tours as a way to assess fit from the student’s POV), but I’ve come to think that where FIT really matters is not to the student but to the school. So you’ve got to be offering what they’re looking for and, to do that, you either have to obviously BE what they’re looking for or to find a way to point out what it is about you that they should be looking for. I think kids are too often inclined to focus on what they consider their own strengths (or what they consider best about themselves) rather than to highlight attributes that a particular school might see as distinctive and compelling reasons to find a place for them in the next class. (In defense of the kids, both the Common App generally and many of the prompts in various supplements, seem to steer them in the wrong direction.)

So, for example, Harvard is clearly looking for ambitious self-confident extroverts (and is especially delighted to find them among populations that don’t typically apply in droves to Harvard). University of Chicago, by contrast, cares deeply about INTELLECTUAL ambition, but doesn’t seem to give a damn about extroversion (and is probably quite happy to get applications from populations that, historically, have applied in droves to Harvard). Both have new (specialized) engineering programs and, presumably, each is eager to establish its program as one that attracts top students in the field. This is the kind of information that might help an applicant decide which school to choose for EA and how to craft essays for each. It’s also information gleaned from websites and info sessions.

In the end, I think (somewhat perversely) that the way to approach the “Why School X?” essay is as a place to reveal aspects of yourself that the school will see as appealing – rather than to talk about what makes the school appealing to you (which, frankly, is probably the same thing that makes it appealing to thousands of other applicants). And to use the supplemental essays that are more about you not to point your most salient virtues (probably already manifest in other parts of your application and, again, not that different from those of thousands of other applicants) but to highlight aspects of yourself that make you a compelling candidate for that particular school. Obviously, the CA essay can’t be tailored in this way, so you go for fun/distinctive/memorable there and leave the heavy lifting re fit to the supplements. Probably doesn’t hurt if your CA essay also reveals (but is NOT about) aspects of your personality that you wouldn’t/shouldn’t brag about but that colleges generally would value – e.g. optimism, friendliness, resourcefulness, ability to see yourself from another’s point of view).

I know that’s a lot of work (both at the research and the writing stage). Of course, if you’re good at it, it could be less work in the long-run (by producing a positive outcome at the EA stage and/or a sufficiently focused list and strong applications that you don’t have to apply willy-nilly and hope you get lucky). My kid had a list of 6-7 schools – two of which were pretty sure things, admissions-wise (in one case 50% acceptance rate, in another clear objective criteria that she obviously exceeded). She applied to her dream school EA as well as one of the two pretty sure things that had early notification. Got into dream school, withdrew the other app pre-notification. Had she not gotten into dream school, but received an early offer from the pretty sure thing, she’d have dropped the other pretty sure thing app (got safety school covered) and the match school that she didn’t like as well as her top safety and sent out the 3 other reach/match apps. Had she gotten into neither school EA, she’d have applied to all the others. Basically, the two stage process created the opportunity to evaluate how many and which schools to apply to. If it had been a one-stage process, she’d have done all 7 apps. In the end, she did 2. And if she hadn’t gotten lucky with EA at the dream school, she’d probably have done 5 total. Basically, 7 apps moved from the minimum she needed to feel safe to her worst-case scenario.

Fit can’t be that unimportant to you, your kid is going to a top 20 school if I remember right. I happen to disagree with you on the importance of fit as well, but that is for another thread.

Fit for her was “a wonderland of bio,” but the places where she saw/found that encompassed a range of schools from large state ag college to University of Chicago. Basically, she cared about curriculum and research activity – not climate, location, school size, demographics of cohort, vibe, urban vs. rural, etc.

Out of curiosity, why do you think going to a top 20 school is a sign that fit matters? I actually tend to think those are schools that people send their kids to thinking “can’t go wrong with _____.” It’s lower-ranked schools that people tend to love for a “fit”-type reason from what I’ve seen.

While I am uncomfortable providing details, K1 wanted and needed a certain intellectual atmosphere. K1 could have gotten that at the honors program at our in state that K1 was admitted to. However, K1 did not want to go with friends even if they were not in the same program because then K1 felt like K1 could have coasted through high school and ended up in the same place. K1 did not have a true dream school, almost did ED to a couple of schools (could not decide). K1 was not anywhere near as organized as @exacademic’s kid (great post). K1 ended up not getting into most of the schools K1 would have Eded to. K1 did get into some other elite schools RD and picked one of them. I do not know that even of the places that K1 was accepted that this is the best fit but it is where K1 insisted on going.

Interesting about knowing what the school wants @exacademic, we did that with a couple of schools (where we knew as you described they had a STEM or music program they wanted to build up or some other qualities they were looking for that K1 had). It worked with lower ranked schools (20-40) but not with sub 20 schools. Also, for some schools (both accepted and rejected) K1 had nothing that made K1 something they were looking for in particular.

For K2 who does not seem to have a dream school, we will choose a place to ED that is a low reach. If K2 is deferred we will do ED2 most likely.

My fear is everyone is already doing ED so that while RD has become impossible, ED is what RD used to be and K2 will still not get better odds and should instead ED to a target.

I think kids are going to start doing ED even if they need FA. We are seeing many cases where the aid didn’t pan out and they backed out this year. I think the “contract” will begin to mean less and less.

@HRSMom were they meet full needs? Did the families have complicated financials that NPC was not accurate?

There really should be a way to get an accurate preliminary number, someone you can call or email at these schools. Otherwise pretty soon there will be no children of divorce or small business owners at certain schools.

Not really. One simply did not get a merit scholarship (they told the school upfront they needed it). But in general, they just felt they did not get enough. I’m not sure some of them even did NPC. As I said, I don’t know how seriously ppl will view that ED commitment, which is why I don’t think ED will disadvantage FA seekers in the end.

If that isn’t looking for “fit”, then what is???

And @exacademic, the poster who was claiming fit doesn’t matter was saying students should just go to their state universities – but that is not what their kid did. If taking the least expensive decent option was right for everyone else, somehow their kid needed something different. I happen to think that fit is important for a lot of kids, but just saying that the positions taken by that poster were inconsistent.

But I’d also say that this thread has jumped the shark. And I don’t think anyone answered the question I had about what top schools that don’t have EA or SCEA are at 3% for RD. That was the initial point of this thread. I don’t feel like going to look at all the stats for top schools (as I am not the one making that claim). Would like those making the claim to provide that list. I am guessing there are a few schools on it… but not a lot.

@HRSMom I sort of do not understand how ED applicants who seek FA work. Lets say I ED to Brown. I have done the NPC and it indicates that I have an EFC of 20k. When I get the offer they have disallowed 30k in deductions that I took so now my EFC is 26k on December 1 or whenever. At that point I have not applied any place else, I am not applying to state schools because I know they will not meet need so I have no other EAs. How will I know that for example Dartmouth or Tufts would have given me better FA RD?

You are right that they don’t get to “compare”. They only get to know that one school’s offer. But they can turn it down and try RD at others. It will never be completely ideal, but I’m not sure it is disadvantaging them much (assuming need is met at the schools).

Perhaps ED should be eliminated and the whole process accelerated to a Dec 1 due date and a Feb 1 notice date. Of course no one listens to me on these matters;)

Sounds like if money is tight you need to EA while EDing.

@intparent I think the answer to your question re how many non-(SC)EA schools with RD,s of 3% is none. See http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/1841185-college-admissions-statistics-class-of-2020-early-decision-early-action-acceptance-rates.html#latest

And I was confused re disagreement because I thought you were responding to my post, directly above yours (in retrospect, I see we posted simultaneously) rather than SeekingPam’s – and your follow-up question to her fit for me/my kid as well, LOL!

@notveryzen, you are the OP on this. Can you provide a list of schools that have ED and are actually below 4% (so “approaching 3%” on RD)? Also, I just can’t imagine any scenario in which a school does away with RD.