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<p>Why don’t you share with us “why they are there.” You seem to have the gift of prophecy, to be able apparently to look into students’ brains or souls, and decide what their motivations are for applying to and matriculating to an Ivy.:rolleyes:</p>
<p>The tired refrain has been replayed on CC before: Chicago students are intellectuals (go to college to become more intellectual), the rest are caca (sub-intellectual, pseudo-intellectual, take your pick of epithets).</p>
<p>I fail to see what is wrong with having colleges with different missions. At the level being discussed, I don’t think one is superior to another. It is not about better or worse, but about diversity and choice, that’s all.</p>
<p>Really. My son was the last of the group to be hand picked by Ted O. himself. According to posts here, I suppose I should frame the acceptance letter! I never saw my son’s essays (for Chicago or any colleges), so I have no idea what he wrote that was so brilliant he deserved to be let into the intellectual sanctum sanctorum of Chicago. I happen to know there are kids just as “brilliant” as my son at our state flagship u. I am assuming that they, too, will contribute to society. Sorry for the vent, but this really gets to be a bit much at times. Do you think perhaps you might be turning off more bright kids with all this “intellectual” talk than attracting? The smart kids know that there is education to be had at a lot of places–diversity and all that.</p>
<p>No, that’s what the essay prompts are for. 
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<p>It’s not about being smart or intellectual, it is about choosing the environment in which one wishes to be smart and intellectual. There are many many places for smart kids, which I think is the point of the original post. I doubt, for example, one can find many better than Reed College, or Claremont McKenna College, etc., etc.</p>
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<p>Why be coy? Why not just come out and say what you’re trying to 
say? Chicago’s mission is to “be intellectual.” The “mission” of other “elites” is not to be intellectual.</p>
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<p>Non-contextualized indefinite pronoun. What is “that”?</p>
<p>Edited to refine that to a demonstrative pronoun, lest I be accused of non-intellectualism.</p>
<p>Oh, brother. Talk about elitism. Cerebral class warfare, anyone?</p>
<p>“Do you think perhaps you might be turning off more bright kids with all this “intellectual” talk than attracting?”
This ^^ is “that”.</p>
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<p>Yes – those are exactly the accomplishments that make me more impressed with your daughter, and also give a sense of why she impressed the Rhodes committee as well. </p>
<p>I’d note that my kid did something similar with a summer internship she arranged for herself in New Delhi. (Similar in the sense of doing something out-of-the-box, somewhat adventurous, and self-arranged). My d. was also invited by her college Dean to apply for a Rhodes… but she had no particular desire to pursue graduate studies at Oxford, so didn’t want to go to the trouble of an application. To some students it might seem like a wonderful opportunity, to others it might seem like a commitment that takes them away from their preferred post-graduate plans and path. [The Rhodes application process does take a lot of work] </p>
<p>There are a LOT of valuable things that students can be doing with their time, in school and out of school, that do not fit within the scheme for recognition by prestigious, name-brand awards. </p>
<p>My point is that your daughter’s time spent doing lab work at her college would not be any less valuable if she had not won a Goldwater, nor would her accomplishments be any less if she had opted to take a different position with better stipend support. (After all, many kids don’t have the option of turning down money). The summer in Bolivia would not be any less impressive if your daughter had been moved by her experience to apply for the Peace Corps rather than Rhodes. </p>
<p>Keep in mind that your daughter’s life revolves around the various work and projects that you have detailed. I mean… she lived those experiences on a daily basis. The awards represented a matter of hours in completing the application and interview process – important, but not a central part of your kid’s life. If she had NOT won the awards after applying, her accomplishments would be the SAME. </p>
<p>I guess my point is that parents should not confuse “accomplishments” with “recognition.” (Obama’s accomplishments were no less and no more the day after the Nobel Prize was announced as they were the day before. ) And “recognition” doesn’t mean much without knowing what the person was recognized *for<a href=“which%20is%20why%20there%20was%20a%20lot%20of%20controversy%20over%20Obama’s%20Nobel%20award%20…%20a%20lot%20of%20us,%20liberal%20and%20conservative%20alike,%20are%20still%20wondering%20what%20the%20heck%20he%20did%20to%20foster%20world%20peace%20during%20the%20year%20that%20he%20was%20clearly%20spending%20most%20of%20his%20waking%20hours%20campaigning%20to%20become%20President”>/i</a></p>
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lol. Pre-professional :eek:. A national tragedy to be sure. Whatever will we do? Next thing you know kids will try to get decent grades and stuff. And apply for prestigious post-graduate scholarships. And then we are doomed. Just doomed I say. A nation of stats-and-awards-whores.</p>
<p>It might frighten some of you to know that WildChild was accepted not once- but twice- to Chicago- once as EA freshman and once as a transfer. He didn’t go, but did love the place. It might color some of your views about what Chicago looks for in an applicant- at least for those of you who know any of his history! (P.S.- his essays were very clever and risky)</p>
<p>" Chicago students are intellectuals (go to college to become more intellectual), the rest are caca (sub-intellectual, pseudo-intellectual, take your pick of epithets)."</p>
<p>I’m a Harvard grad and think that Swat and Chicago are the colleges that are designed for intellectuals. Harvard and similar schools have some, but that’s not their main mission. This doesn’t bother me at all. I’m glad that there are places like Swat and Chicago for the very intellectual student. I don’t see it as a slam on places like Harvard to acknowledge the niche that Chicago and Swat market to.</p>
<p>I don’t characterize myself as an intellectual, and that’s fine with me. Kudos to the folks who really are. There’s a place and need for all types of productive people.</p>
<p>Trust me. Not every kid at Swat and Chicago is an “intellectual” either. Though they may all be intellectual poseurs.</p>
<p>Now, how did this become the Chicago bashing thread?</p>
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<p>I don’t know about you, but I don’t see that as a good thing. Do you? Personally, I find that kids who obsess more about “achieving” end up with very superficial results, much less than the kid with a genuine love of learning, experimenting, and giving. The latter is likely to contribute more to society, which is the basis of high education in the first place. Grades and schools are important, but nonetheless byproducts in the context of life.</p>
<p>Believe it or not, I think colleges are actually quite good at discerning this passion. That explains the students with gasp! not-so-great stats who seem to magically get in each year.</p>
<p>Post 253:
It didn’t, QM. It became a Chicago-worship and Ivy-bashing thread. (That’s why I referred to class warfare.) And quite gratuitiously by some (although I doubt that’s true about the OP), who have agendas.</p>
<p>NSM, respectfully, please speak for yourself. It’s one thing to refer to a U’s mission. But that wasn’t the tangent that developed. The tangent that developed was the students’ mission(s). (See Post 235).</p>
<p>Here’s a radical thought for all those whose agenda is to sell Chicago as intellectually superior. Maybe some true intellectuals (<em>gags</em>) choose Ivies over Chicago, though invited to both, for three reasons, minimum:</p>
<p>CFA (Crappy Financial Aid)
COHA (Crappy O’Hare Airport)
FYBO (Freeze Your Butt Off)</p>
<p>In other words, maybe they value intellectualism every bleepin’ bit as much, and are indeed (wait, no, it couldn’t be) just as intellectual, but can’t/couldn’t afford to go there.</p>
<p>And there couldn’t be a 4th reason, no: Couldn’t be that they were choosing locale for reasons of academic major opportunities, even though that very major was indeed top-notch at Chicago.</p>
<p>Since we are on this topic, lets be very clear:</p>
<p>Not every ‘intellectual’ has a great intellect.</p>
<p>Not every person with a great intellect wants to be an ‘intellectual’.</p>
<p>Also, being socially awkward is not a requirement for being an intellectual.</p>
<p>Who said anything about socially awkward? You’ve lost me.</p>
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<p>I did (insert awkward smiley here).</p>
<p>The experience of an ivy reject…</p>
<p>is inevitable</p>
<p>You know my D “loved” Chicago when the bulletin arrived in the mail–it was entitled “Life of the Mind.” She thought it sounded like a paradise. They offered a program, I think, called something like “Big Problems” that she thought was unique. She imagined herself having long discussions into the night about the meaning of life and how to save the world, etc. But, then she wasn’t too thrilled about the quarter system. And then she realized she couldn’t just hop on a train or a bus and be home in a few hours if the spirit moved her. And then, it just eventually came down to location, location, location. </p>
<p>At school this year, D is too busy to have too many lengthy discussions outside of the classroom and/or with profs. She’s running from one thing to the next and is often up long into the night trying to perfect those papers and complete those psets. It’s a “can you meet me” text and a quick bite with a friend or two for lunch and/or dinner during the week if she’s lucky. On the weekends–more work and trying to sleep a little bit more and decompress. And I don’t think there are too many intellectual discussions over facebook going on either. She’s not found a “paradise” at her school, but she is challenged and stimulated and at least surrounded by people she might have meaningful discussions with if they had the time or energy or inclination!! She doesn’t feel empty but I think she is sometimes running on empty. ;/</p>
<p>I found intellectuals at a third tier state school I once attended for a bit, I fail to see how this has anything to do with the fact that different schools have different missions. Nor is any school exclusively one thing or another. Student experiences will also overlap. There is simply a different emphasis from time-to-time. It is this difference, without reference to better or worse, or more valued or less, that I like to celebrate.</p>