<p>Midwestparent,
I suspect NMSC would tolerate a little delay, especially if you let them know there fax line was busy. More important is your D trying to factor out what she likes about the various colleges. If I recall, ND & WUSTL were 2:3. It sounds like she needs quiet time to ponder.
Incidentally, I hope your nephew enjoys this weekend in Ca.</p>
<p>Midwest Parent -- I don't think Monday is your deadline -- I think the deadline for NMF college choice notification is May 31. My son was NMF and didn't fax in his choice until the first week of May, after making his college deposit - and he did get a $2000 college sponsored scholarship. </p>
<p>If your daughter previously indicated that she was undecided, the deadline is May 31. Check this brochure from National Merit, at page 3:</p>
<p>
[quote]
March 1 through May 31, 2007: A Finalist who has reported a sponsor college as first choice by March 1 will be included in the first group referred to that institution for scholarship consideration. Periodically NMSC will notify sponsors of additional Finalists who have reported (by May 31) the college or university as their first choice.
[/quote]
If the problem is that your daughter has already designated a college, and wants to preserve the ability to change it, here is what she has to do now:
[quote]
April 25, 2007: NMSC will begin mailing college-sponsored Merit Scholarship offers.
NOTE: If NMSC receives notification of a change in college choice from a Finalist after mailing a college-sponsored Merit Scholarship offer to that student, the Finalist cannot be offered another college-sponsored Merit Scholarship award. This applies even if the new choice of college is one that also sponsors Merit Scholarship awards. Therefore, a Finalist who has previously reported a sponsor college as first choice but is uncertain about it may choose to notify NMSC that he/she is now “undecided”; such notification must be received at NMSC, via mail or fax (847-866-5113), before April 25. The Finalist can subsequently report a firm college choice that NMSC receives by May 31.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Bookworm - my nephew is at CalTech prefrosh weekend right now!! My sister thinks he must be having a great time because his father (who also went and is attending the programs for parents) hasn't heard from him since he dropped him off yesterday afternoon. I take it you are a CalTech student?
My sister's heart is breaking just a little at the thought of her first born going to far from home (they also live in the midwest, but a different state). She has resigned herself that if he comes away from this weekend convinced this is the school for him, then she will know it was meant to be.</p>
<p>You are so right, D just needs to peace and quiet in which to think and make her decision.</p>
<p>Calmom - D DID previously name a first choice college (that is another whole story - the small private school that is known for giving full rides to NMFs called saying that they only had "so many" of these scholarships to give out and if she wanted to make sure she received one, she needed to name them by March 1. It was the largest amount of $$$ of any of the schools, so she named them, just in case). I reread throught the NMSC information this morning (should have done THAT a long time ago) and saw the part about if you were "uncertain" about your first choice school, you could change it back to "undecided" and then give them your final choice by May 31. We did type that up and faxed it to NMSC changing her back to undecided. That does ease the tension a little. Thank you for mentioning it because if I hadn't looked this morning, I wouldn't have remembered that piece of information.</p>
<p>While she was at school, I dug around through the closet with all of her papers, projects, report cards, etc. from kdg to present. I selected some of the ultra special things, comments teachers had written, etc. along with the e-mails from the parents of the school she is considering, and had a little "presentation" ready for her when she got home. I was afraid that I would get the "Oh mom" accompanied by rolled eyes, but that didn't happen and she listened intently. I like to think it helped, and as she got up to leave she said, "Please don't put those things away".</p>
<p>
[quote]
If you have been accepted by a college the odds of failure(ie flunking out) are very slim.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>That's not necessarily true. If a college has, let's say, a 4 percent dropout rate attributable to academics, but 80 percent of those dropouts are from the statistical bottom tenth of the class, then the rate is a whopping 32 percent for students in the bottom decile. And that's only for the most extreme form of failure, dropping out. Is it likelier for a student who starts out in the bottom 25 percent of matriculants as measured by high school credentials to end up in the bottom 25 percent or the top 30 percent?</p>
<p>Midwest parent, I took the liberty of pulling up your daughter's stats from another thread where you had posted them:</p>
<p>Stats:
SAT I: 800CR, 700M, 700W
ACT: 33
GPA: 4.0 UW
Rank: 1/278
Hook (if any): National Merit Finalist, 2X state tennis qualifier, 3X state orchestra qualifier, fundraising and lobbying on a national level, regional gold key art award</p>
<p>Your daughter's stats are amazing! The fact that she has done so well coming from a mediocre public high school makes those numbers and accomplishments even more incredible. She is going to be one of the top students wherever she goes. </p>
<p>I am assuming from your daughter's top CR score, musical talent, and interest in fundraising & lobbying that she is NOT a prospective science/engineering major but will lean towards humanities or social sciences. </p>
<p>Trust me: the only thing that counts on arts/humanities/social sciences end of thing at college is the ability to read and write well. It doesn't matter what the high school was like. </p>
<p>Do her colleges require a freshman writing seminar? If so, that is basically where she will learn all she has to know. </p>
<p>I'm sorry your daughter had such a crisis of confidence -- but I am quite sure that she will find that she will be at the head of the pack at her reach colleges -- and I'd be very worried that a high-achiever like her would feel constrained at a safety college, unless the safety is a very large university with a lot of room for growth. </p>
<p>If she is #1 out of 278 in her graduating class, she is going to be fine -- she will find that the kids at her college are a lot smarter than the bottom half of her high school class -- bu they are NOT smarter than the top 20 or so -- they will be your daughter's intellectual and academic peers, NOT her betters.</p>
<p>MidwestParent,</p>
<p>My wife and I felt the same way your sister does four years ago when our son moved across the country. The separation will be hard but e-mail, IM and cell phones make things a lot easier than we thought. Shortly after he left home it dawn on my how hard it must have been for my parents and my wife's to see us move to another country 25 years ago. That was back when long distance calls were a lot more expensive than a grad student could afford. A three minute call every other week was about it, while handwritten letters (always written by my wife) took care of the rest. I think we are a really fortunate to have technology that can keep us closer to our kids.</p>
<p>As for the main topic of this thread, here is a good post by a Caltech alum about the non-zero risk of failure at the school. </p>
<p>Scroll down to message #6.</p>
<p>Fearing failure is a symptom which suggests a kid has never really taken big risks before, or for whatever statistical reason has never experienced failure. The expectation develops, therefore, that you will never fail at anything. In reality, life isn't really like that. Eventually, nearly everyone fails at something (I failed my drivers test the first time!).</p>
<p>It will be a smaller life lived if those chances are never taken. Not necessarily worse or better, but smaller. Kids need to be hearty in the modern era. If the school takes them in, they think they can succeed. That should be the stated fact. IF they love the school, they should be encouraged to go. </p>
<p>I believe in raising hearty children, not hot house flowers.</p>
<p>Thank you Calmom, again and again! </p>
<p>I tell D the same things you said - LOOK at what you've been able to accomplish here "in the cornfield". THINK what you could have done if you had been able to go to a QUALITY high school (with APs and/or IB and great teachers, etc.). I gave my speech yesterday and now all that information is "rattling around in her subconsious" (her words). I want to use the words I read another CCer thought as their child sprinted away from their car and toward her college dorm - "You run, run towards your future!" </p>
<p>D really does not know what she wants to major in - a true undecided. She finds the PNP (philosophy/neuroscience/psychology) program at WashU very interesting. She also likes the ALPP (Arts and Letters PreProfessional) program at Notre Dame. One is a set major that you can ad premed requirements to, if you choose, and the other allows you to major in what you want (ie anthropology, etc.) and add in the premed prereqs. Our older daughter started out in science and did a complete switch to communications - an area where she has blossomed. My husband is a physician, he has taken them with him over the years to see what he does, and I think they both have felt a certain expectation was present (and maybe it has been!). My husband still laments, "D (older) would have been such a great doctor". Yes, she would have, but she will be a great something else. I will be interested to see what D#2 gravitates toward when she in on her own in the college setting. </p>
<p>Artiesdad - I have copied post #6 from the thread you mentioned and e-mailed it to my sister (she is not a CCer). She said over this long weekend he is gone she is just telling herself that he is going to CalTech and then if that turns out to be true, hopefully she will have gotten out her "boohoos" while he is gone. I passed along another quote to her that I found on CC that I think applies to her amazing son - "Ships are safer in the harbor, but that's not what ships are made for". That made her cry too!! </p>
<p>I think we all (seniors and parents) are just so worn out from the process of selecting schools to apply to, the application process itself, waiting on answers, AND getting the senior year and all it entails wrapped up that there isn't a dry eye around!</p>
<p>MidwestParent, I have one more thing to suggest -- get away from the "failure" word for a minute -- and let your daughter know that if things do not work out at a particular college, it is OK to make a change - to take some time off or to transfer. But it will be much, much easier for her to transfer from WashU or Notre Dame to a less selective college than the other way around. So if she still is torn -- I think going for the reach college leaves open more options in the long run. </p>
<p>I'm also wondering whether she might be nervous about distance from home? I'm asking because you commented in another thread that you chose a college very near your parents' home for yourself because you were really afraid to leave, so maybe you should share with your daughter and talk about the feelings you had at the time, and why you now regret that decision.</p>
<p>Failing is not the end of the world either. My sister in law had a disastrous first term at Harvard. She flunked German and felt woefully underprepared for writing term papers which she had never done in high school. She left first term with a bunch of Fs and incompletes took some time off, attended classes at the U. of Fl. and then returned to Harvard and did just fine. If she'd asked for help sooner she'd probably have muddled through the first term better as well. I knew many, many kids who'd come out of mediocre schools who did fine. I don't think you can predict much from the high school quality or grades how people will do. So much depends on the courses you sign up for and whether you are mature enough to ask for help. One of my brother's who went to a respected prep school got an A, a B, a C and a D first term.</p>
<p>Calmom, you make a good point about the possiblity of transferring or changing majors etc. Though my husband didn't necessarily think it was a good idea, I made sure that our older son knew he could transfer if he didn't like his school. Personally, I always like to know the escape route, and I wanted him to know that there are always options if he's unhappy. Fortunately, he is very happy at his school, but it would have been okay with me if he wanted to change his mind. It's really not the end of the world.</p>
<p>The transfer thing has worked out incredibly well for my son. He has the foundation of his first 2 years at his LAC, and now that he has transferred to a CSU he is experiencing the benefit of the "big fish in a small pond" effect, at a time when he is much more focused on his major and career plans. He was just selected for a very prestigious, funded semester-long internship in Washington DC, that represents an opportunity he probably never would have had but for the transfer, and is certain to make a huge impact on his future in terms of the experience and connections it will bring. </p>
<p>So you never know... even what looks like "failure" at the time can turn out to be the first step to opening the way for new opportunities.</p>
<p>Calmom - We have been taking the 'positive' approach when dealing with D and have asked her to try to think in those terms too. We know it is scary, we know it will be challenging, but we also know she will be fine. We have told her to think of all the positives she is priviledged to be dealing with, rather than dwelling on any 'potential' negative that 'could possibly' happen. My sister says "the anticipated is always worse than the reality". We have also told her that she is not signing in blood and if it turns out it is not right for her, she can leave. </p>
<p>I do think that the distance does bother her a bit. A lot of people, even many on this site (which they often don't do), encouraged her to try for super reaches when we made our very first post on the college search forum titled "daughter confused, parents clueless". By her own decision, she took a map of the US and folded back each side, deciding to stay in the midsection of the country. Lots of great school in the region. From there she researched and made her final selection as to where to apply. I have talked to her about my regrets as has my husband (he went to undergrad right here in town at localU) - we've told her that she can do better, and should.</p>
<p>Also you asked earlier and I didn't answer - WashU for sure has required writing and I think ND does too.</p>
<p>I also started thinking, "I wonder if D even knows what a 3.5 GPA is?" Sure enough, she hadn't really thought about it. When I explained that it was 1/2 As and 1/2 Bs, you could see her face light up. She was really relieved!</p>
<p>I think we are turning the corner here and I sense an announcement is close!</p>
<p>Does she need the 3.5 GPA to keep a merit scholarship? And if so, is it essential for her to keep that scholarship to continue in school?</p>
<p>I do hope your confidence is starting to inspire your D. How's the mood around the house? Perhaps just a few words, some long loving parental gazes, a wink, a hug, a "you can do this, know?" so she's sure the decision/announcement is her own.</p>
<p>I had a rocky first term academically exactly because the other kids were well prepared, polished, from prep schools. They had been given assignments, the likes of which I'd never seen before (comparing several sources where we were asked merely to analyze one source, for example). They knew the moves, how to walk into a professor's office...and I didn't. </p>
<p>I sat in my freshman dorm with my first "d" in my life. Just a first-quarter grade, but I didn't know what to do. I thought i'd studied hard, and I had, I just didn't know how to do college work yet. </p>
<p>Later i learned I should have asked around more before preregistration! That was the hardest meanest history prof who shouldn't have been given freshmen, he was built for jr/sr. majors. From that I learned to ask around much more before registering for any courses, to find the professors that matched my stage of development better. </p>
<p>Also, I took a whole sophomore year of credit/no entry courses to get the grade pressure off my mind. During that year, I truly learned to read and compare, read for understanding not to gather point-factoids for a test. I worked on my study approach as much as the course material; managing time, learning to juggle multiple readings on the same topic, tried different note-taking approaches. I monitored the exam and paper grades without anxiety, realizing they were going up the more I learned to relax, read deeply, and study wisely.
They gave grades on the tests and papers, just no transcript grade except Cr/NE. I guess some college may use Pass/Fail. </p>
<p>Then, as a junior, I made A's and B's once again. (It was in l970, however, and the campus mood was affected by evetns at Kent State so it may not be wise to do an entire year of Cr/NE, but that is a way to take off some pressure at some schools, or in scary courses, in order to get the courage to take the risk and enrol in that course. My D uses Cr/NE when she's in a distribution requirement that concerns her re: grade. </p>
<p>Anyway, that bad day freshman year looking at the "D", I realized (all alone, sitting on my bed) I had something that the other A-freshman-students didn't have. Perhaps because I came from a more humble background, I could and did talk with anybody on campus. The custodians, the secretaries, the deans (since I was too naiive to realize I was supposed to be intimidated by a dean). TO me, it was all good. I had a democratic (small d) approach to the college campus. I attracted and chose friends from every economic background, too. Meanwhile I noticed that the prep school kids hung together and shared prep school stories, at least that was true first term freshman year (later, some branched out) but there was a clutch of them that stuck together. I decided they must be as scared as I was (although they did get A's right away). </p>
<p>I decided as a bruised freshman that I could LEARN whatever it was they knew, since those were academic skills. Skills can be acquired. But I wondered if they'd ever be able to connect with people of every stripe on the campus and later life. </p>
<p>It really is a good idea to revisit those SAT scores of your D, since they are the best available predictor of college academic performance in courses.</p>
<p>Whatever she doesn't know now, she can learn how to do, if she needs to. That might mean writing more sophisticated essays, using correct source references, or finding out how to set a table with 5 utensils, not just 3. </p>
<p>Her background from a small midwestern community, with good supportive parents gives her irreplaceable tools that can't be gained any other way than the way she got them: as an inheritance, her legacy.</p>
<p>I tell myself (and my kids) to ask ourselves this when they're unsure. "What's the WORST that could happen?" (I could get a C, I could be embarassed, I'd feel terrible, I wouldn't have a 4.0 to take on to grad school...) Then say, "Can I live with that 'worst thing'? If you can't then don't take the risk, but if the worst thing is spelled out, sometimes it seems manageable, conquerable, and certainly worth the up-side of the next move under consideration.</p>
<p>Anyway, i HOPE you don't have to shower your D with all of the above. I have a hunch she's around the corner from making a good decision. you know her best. </p>
<p>Best wishes to a great family.</p>
<p>Calmom - No she doesn't need a 3.5 to keep any scholarship. WashU offers a modest NMF scholarship and ND doesn't give merit $$. I just picked that GPA because it is what you so often hear as the one needed to get into a quality grad/med school. It was more to prove a point.</p>
<p>p3t - Thank you for all the thoughts. The mood around the house is great - would be even better if she didn't have so much darn homework! She has also been asked by the orchestra teacher to draw the cover for their senior orchestra concert - she's happy to do it, but it adds another task on an already packed agenda. </p>
<p>We took a walk earlier in the day and I let D talk about whatever came to mind. She talked about schools where other kids she knew were going. Even mentioned where a friend of her's from middle school, who went away to attend St. John's (supposedly a VERY prestigious private hs in Ct.??), was going to college. The girl even said, "Well, I gues I am going to _____________". After leaving home and going 1/2way across the country for her h.s. education, she sounded terribly disappointed in her future college.</p>
<p>You all have been so supportive and helpful.</p>
<p>S. knows of a recruited athlete who turned down an (HYP) Ivy because he didn't want to get in over his head.
I think that's probably the exception, though it should certainly be considered.</p>
<p>I had a number of classmates who had to leave school, sometimes for good, because they couldn't keep up their grades. Academic probation, then loss of FA followed.</p>
<p>
[quote]
would be even better if she didn't have so much darn homework!
[/quote]
Oh - another thing -- my d. thinks it is easier to keep up with work at Barnard than it was at her high school -- that's because she has fewer hours spent in class and some days with good blocks of time that can be used for studying. She told me she never realized how tiring high school was before she got to college, because in high school she would have to get up early in the morning to drive to school, then be there from the time of the first bell at 8 am until about 3 in the afternoon, longer on days when there were after-school activities -- and by the time she got home in the evening she was already exhausted, but then would have to face homework for the next day. College is less classes overall -- she only take 4 academic courses a semester -- and I think less busy work in terms of home work assignments. </p>
<p>So if part of your daughter's fear is that she is so overwhelmed now, how will she ever manage college?.... the answer is, it gets easier, even for kids from weak public high schools. I mean, imagine the luxury of not having classes before noon on some days... or having Fridays off.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Your daughter's stats are amazing! The fact that she has done so well coming from a mediocre public high school makes those numbers and accomplishments even more incredible. She is going to be one of the top students wherever she goes.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>While that's probably true, coming from a mediocre public high school makes it less impressive to have perfect grades and class rank #1. The high but nowhere near perfect SAT/ACT results and the ECs listed give the impression (without more information) of a student whose main strengths are energy, ambition, committment, etc, with a high but not necessarily extreme level of intellect. If so, that is a combination that would work out fine at almost any school, but for a kid who is insecure enough to worry about failing at a top school(which one?) may lead to confidence-shaking experiences upon meeting smarter or more accomplished students at college. The woman in question may not be as confident as she should be about going to a top school, or maybe she understands the situation clearly enough to want to build that confidence by going to a lower-tier school and reaching the top there.</p>