<p>Hello CC'ers
My son is passionate about his future developing 'sensory-based' advanced prosthetics. He will need a higher level Biomedical Engineering degree. At least an MS and perhaps a PHD.</p>
<p>So, he has a Biomedical Engineering offer for a cost (hoping we can qualify for the Parent Plus loans) and moving up to a masters program or getting a virtually Free LAC education that is liberal about Student Contracts, thus allowing him to receive lots of Internship and Research credits toward his undergrad degree and transition to a premium ,BME focused, post-grad school.</p>
<p>His options are down to two candidates. </p>
<h1>1) As far as going directly into a top 15 BioMedical Engineering program, he has been accepted into University of Utah's BME (Honors College). This will require approx $50k in loans providing he moves to Utah or about $80k if not.</h1>
<p>This Only works IF we qualify for the Parent Plus loans (we are one of 'those families' whose incomes and credit have been especially effected by the economy so that is a BIG if...)</p>
<h1>2) Option 2 is The Evergreen State College in Washington. This is a Very well thought of LAC (on the CTCL list of the top 40 life changing schools). They offer high level Math and Science, and many of their grads move on to Med School. But no undergrad engineering. All his exposure to this focus will need to be via 'Student Contracts' and research opportunities as well as Internships of which they are very Liberal with making room for in their Undergrad programs.</h1>
<p>Option #2 will end up being a remarkable, well rounded and thought provoking education that will transition to a Engineering specific Post Grad School AND there is NO concern about qualifying with his a near full ride offer and <$20k in Fed subsidized loans. He will not have to 'move' and we can still claim him on our taxes. He will also be saving his 'real' debt for his post-grad degrees.</p>
<p>What shall he do? Please chime in - Thanks :)</p>
<p>I don’t know about Evergreen for BME, but I have a good friend who did something within the polisci/public policy area there and absolutely loved it. She had awesome opportunities for internships and said the student body was pretty remarkable.</p>
<p>thanks Bruno14
Evergreen has NO engineering. They offer plenty of high level science, math & physics and are liberal in allowing the students to design their research and set up ‘student contracts’ so he would be able to attain some self actualized engineering via internships and special projects for credit.</p>
<p>My question was not as to the quality of Evergreen as we are convinced it offers a wonderfully thought provoking start to his academic career. We are simply concerned if the fact that he will not get any undergrad engineering if it will hurt his chances for a biomedical engineering specific grad school…</p>
<p>You and he should check the bioengineering PhD program admissions web pages to see what their undergraduate requirements are. At least some of them do not specifically require an undergraduate engineering degree, but do expect at least a strong math, physics, chemistry, and/or biology background from undergraduate study.</p>
<p>However, it is not obvious from Evergreen State’s catalog that it offers a full selection of high level science courses offered at reasonable frequency. For example, organic chemistry is only offered during the summer, and math and physics listings do not appear to have much in the way of typical junior and senior level core courses in those subjects.</p>
<p>On the other hand, $80,000 of debt is generally not considered a good move.</p>
<p>Has he been accepted to any other schools, and at what net cost after non-loan financial aid and level of debt needed?</p>
<p>@UCBAlumus,
the BME options were UCSC, Cal Poly SLO (Not ABET yet) and Utah…between the three, Utah (Honors) was the better fit…after looking at their Fin Aid awards, the afforadability was Utah ($80k), UCSC ($100k) and Cal Poly ($110k) - all three of these require a Parent Plus loan that we are unsure we will qualify for…</p>
<p>we are willing to invest in his education but do not feel confident if we can as the mortgage meltdown/real estate bubble/market reaction creamed us.</p>
<p>The Evergreen State College is on ‘Colleges That Change Lives’ top 40 LAC’s and will offer a well rounded and provokative education that unfortunately will not prepare our son as well for his BME career but since he intends higher level degrees, we are taking the time to confirm if this choice will not jeopardize his intended life path.</p>
<p>we have already been researching the PHD programs you provided…University of Washington will be his dream school for the BME PHD. where do we find the details you came up with on the UCSD and JHU?</p>
<p>Evergreen State is one of the most underrated gems in the country IMO. I say go to Evergreen and if after two years there is not enough there - shoot for a transfer. Utah is not worth the extra debt. If it was U-Dub MAYBE, but not Utah.</p>
<p>Just a note on the Parent Plus loan. Be sure you really look into that. I remember reading back a few years that one was only recommended “if” you couldn’t get any other student loan. I don’t remember all of the why’s about it.</p>
<p>And this may not be a popular thought, but what we did (for many reasons) was to take a HELOC (Home Equity Line of Credit) which allows us to deduct the interest and only pull the money as we need it.</p>
<p>Again, just be sure to research all of your options. Also, it’s harder to establish residency in most cases for colleges in order to reduce the tuition. You can’t just move to the state, the student usually has to be financially independent, either register to vote or have a vehicle registered in the state, etc., etc.</p>
<p>P.S. Our older daughter attended Evergreen and is graduating in June. She loved it, but her major is English.</p>
<p>It looks like your only four year school choices are Evergreen State, whose advanced science offerings may be too limited for the intended purpose (preparation for bioengineering PhD study), and unaffordable schools ($80,000+ loans are not a good idea). (Did he not apply to or get admitted to UW or WSU, assuming that you are in Washington?)</p>
<p>What about going to an inexpensive community college* for two years, then transferring to an in-state public engineering degree program (UW or WSU if you are in Washington) to complete an engineering degree in preparation for bioengineering PhD study?</p>
<p>*Or Evergreen State if course articulation with UW and/or WSU works.</p>
<p>I don’t know how similar Graduate Biomedical Engineering programs are to Graduate Electrical Engineering programs-- </p>
<p>But for students applying for graduate EE degrees who don’t have an undergrad EE degree often times</p>
<p>1) They do not have the prereqs to take any grad classes. It takes them 2 - 4 semesters to get to the point where they can start their graduate classes</p>
<p>2) They almost never receive Teaching Assistant positions because they have not taken the classes they would be a TA for</p>
<p>So the graduate degree ends up taking these students a lot longer and costs them a lot more than it would a student who has an undergrad degree</p>
<p>Engineering tracks are typically very rigid. Idahomom is correct, Math and Science classes, regardless of their rigor will not fully prepare you for graduate engineering opportunities. Even if there are a few schools that accept non-engineers as graduate students, they are a small sub-set of the total.</p>
<p>I’m concerned about your idea of ‘moving’ to Utah. Typically there are minimum lengths of residency before a student can get the full benefit of the lower in-state tuition. What, if any, requirements exist in Utah?</p>
<p>It sounds as though your son wants engineering but you want a more rounded LAC experience for him. Regrettably, engineering tracks tend to be very limiting.</p>
<p>Is BME a career that generally requires only a bachelor’s degree? If not, then ESC is the obvious choice. Also, if your assessment of cost is based upon in-state tuition, please be aware that most states do not allow you to gain in-state status while enrolled in a college in their state.</p>
<p>Evergreen - his 4th choice but the one where our situation (we got creamed by the Mortgage Meltdown/Real Estate Bubble/Market Reaction) would not get in the way.</p>
<p>Utah - not glamorous but their BME is like #15 (on par with Stanford) for that one program and he has been accepted (Honors College) - Utah’s requirements to relocate are FAR mellower than CA. pretty straight forward (for the time being at least)</p>
<p>UW - regretted…bummer</p>
<p>WSU - did not apply…concentrated on ‘reach’ applications…preferred Utah as his BME ‘safety’ - superior opportunity as his focus is to get into ‘neuroprosthetics’. this IS at Utah already.</p>
<p>Has options for UCSC and Cal Poly SLO - both good schools - not as focused in BME and there would be way more school debt and travel inconveniences/expenses…</p>
<p>the ‘Associates Degree to BS’ in BME (hopefully at UW) is the new ‘fall back’ option choice along with The Evergreen State College - locally, Cascadia Community College shares the campus w/ UW-Bothell. Cascadia has Full access to all of the UW library system (Very cool). their student population is younger and more upwardly focused than any other in the area. More of a ‘4 yr college factory’ so to speak…</p>
<p>Thus…</p>
<p>The three headed decision:
Evergreen State College for a virtual full ride then transition forward on the BME path</p>
<p>2) Associates (Cascadia CC) to BS in BME at UW(?)</p>
<p>3) Get lucky w/ the Parent Plus loan and move forward w/ the Utah opportunity.</p>
<p>between choices 1 and 2, what do you all think?</p>
<p>Check whether a transfer student from Evergreen State to UW or WSU will be able to take the full set of lower division prerequisites of the desired major at UW or WSU. You may have to contact those schools and the departments of the intended major for more information.</p>
<p>If yes, then it may be possible to use Evergreen State in place of a community college before transferring to UW or WSU. If not, then the community college route would be a more favorable option if major preparation is important.</p>
<p>But here is another option: WSU is still accepting applications.</p>
<p>UCBAlumnus and others - you all are a wealth of information. due to the time sensitive nature of this effort, you also are life savers…thank you each for making a difference.</p>
<p>Someone who does not qualify for PLUS on the basis of a poor credit rating is unlikely to qualify for great rates on private loans. From the information I’ve seen, cheap private loans require even better credit than PLUS. Also, private loans have some disadvantages over PLUS (most often can’t be consolidated or renegotiated in the event of hardship; aren’t forgiven if student dies).</p>