The Greek Decision...

Parents Forum
21

<p>We decorated coolers 20 years ago, and went to formals as overnights as well. Whenever I went with someone I didn’t know very well, we shared a room with another couple and nothing happened if we didn’t want it to happen. </p>

<p>And from my years in the greek community, I think the hazing in fraternities is less than it was in the 80s but the drinking has changed. Eliminating kegs on campus in many colleges has increased the amount of hard liquor. That said, my own DS will be pledging this fall, as it has been his wish for years. He knows the risks and is smart enough to know that he will be able to say no if he feels like he is in danger. If he had gone to one of our flagships, though, I doubt he would pledge, as it is less about brotherhood and more about the party, according to his friends involved in Greek life now.</p>

22

<p>I realize that a lot of time goes into the coolers; a lot of alcohol also goes in them, purchased primarily by underage girls for underage boys to drink with those girls in hotel rooms. This arrangement sounds like the perfect recipe for date rape. Haven’t we taught our daughters any self-respect? Why do they put themselves in such a vulnerable situation?</p>

23

<p>^Because in this post-feminist age of Kardashians and Jersey Shore these young ladies believe acting without inhibition IS empowering.</p>

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<p>One of my S’s (not in a fraternity but lives next door to one) told us of pledges being tied to chairs with 40’s duck taped to each of their hands and not being cut loose until they had chugged both 40’s. Not saying all fraternities are bad…just one incident he told us about recently.</p>

25

<p>Frats are not the same as sororities. I wouldn’t even compare the two.</p>

26

<p>I would. The drinking and drugging rates are about the same, and the locus for sexual assaults are about the same. </p>

<p>(But what the sororities don’t have are male-on-male sexual assaults.)</p>

27

<p>I have worked in Honors Programs at a few large, public universities with relatively large Greek communities. I have seen some positive aspects of Honors students in fraternities and sororities but, I have seen far more negative things. For many of my Greek students, their grades suffer especially while pledging but even after because of the time pressures - meetings, mandatory activities - the fraternities and sororities demand. Many have had to give up other excellent opportunities because they conflict with Greek activities. They tend to be insular - only socializing with other Greek students. </p>

<p>2 of my own children were Greek and both loved it so I’m not entirely negative. I do think you need to be careful which house your son pledges (there is an extremely wide variation on most campuses) and be clear about your expectations in terms of academic performance, costs, etc.</p>

28

<p>The story about the cooler and trip to FLA would have me pretty upset too.</p>

<p>All I can say is that at son’s school a letter to us from the college (addressed to the parent/s), and it encouraged that parents allow their student to join Greek life. It stated that their Greek organizations (chapters) are not like the ones we might have heard of and the letter also discussed the higher GPA that Greek students have vs. non-Greek students. We were very nervous, but after receiving this letter we told our son that he could try to join a fraternity. </p>

<p>He has told me that there is no hazing within his fraternity. He has good grades, he is very happy, and he participates in other activities on campus (his fraternity requires that each brother participates in at least one other campus activity). FWIW, at his school there isn’t any seperate Greek housing. Each fraternty/sorority has its own lodge, but the members reside in regular on campus housing as underclasssmen. Some upperclass students move into off campus apartments, but they are not required to do so.</p>

29

<p>I can’t imagine how I didn’t know about this cooler thing before now. Check out the “cooler connection” group on Facebook. It’s unbelievable how many schools do this and the time the girls spend (waste) on decorating the coolers. Are parents really paying for their daughters to supply coolers full of alcohol to fraternity boys? Why are the girls spending their time on this? Do they really think that college-age boys appreciate a painted cooler (as opposed to what’s inside the cooler)? And, why do the universities support this, knowing that most of participants are underage? If you spend any time looking at this on the internet, you’ll see blog posts from students about this on many universities’ websites. The whole practice seems so twisted and demeaning to the girls.</p>

30

<p>Wow, I just looked at that group on fb. The number of pictures of coolers that have been made is pretty shocking! I never heard of this tradition until this thread. I would not want my child (whether male or female) participating in this “event”, “trip” or whatever it is called.</p>

31

<p>The reason frat boys keep there grades up is because they cheat on tests and assignments. Also, they all take the same classes with the same professors as the frat boys the year before them did. They’re always with the easiest professors, and the frats have copies of the past tests on file. Party on Garth!</p>

32

<p>Every frat and sorority is different. Every chapter, every campus. It’s hard to paint with a broad brush.</p>

<p>My S was in what he described as “the least fratt-y frat” at his college (i.e., it was kind of geeky). He had zero intention of pledging when he went to college, but in the end his frat was probably his favorite thing at his college. One semester when everything seemed to be going wrong, he said his frat was probably the only thing that kept him sane. He learned a lot about leadership and other things - like budgeting, house maintenance (frat owns the house, so when the roof leaks or the heat is on the fritz, it’s up to the brothers to arrange to get it fixed), parliamentary procedure at brothers’ meetings, and being part of an organization. It was a major positive for him.</p>

<p>D has joined a sorority at her college, and she also loves it. She had some difficulties with maintaining long-term friendships with girls in hs, but the sorority gives her a framework for keeping friendships going. She can’t just walk away if she has an issue with a sister - they work it out, and others help. She’s also had a ton of opportunities for leadership, both in the sorority as a whole and on specific philanthropic projects. She swears she experienced ZERO hazing.</p>

<p>OTOH, there are frats that do fit the Animal House mold. (S hates them, because they give frats like his a bad name). There are frats and sororities that haze. </p>

<p>How “exclusive” Greek life is may depend on your college. D’s college requires each sorority to accept a certain percentage of the girls who go thru recruitment (if there are 9 sororities and 450 girls rushing, each sorority must accept 50 girls). OTOH, H’s college so severely limited the number of recruits who could pledge sororities that only half of the girls who wanted to pledge could be accepted.</p>

<p>Costs/dues also vary widely.</p>

<p>My advice? Let your son look into it. Find out about the fraternities he’s interested in - see if you can determine their reputation on campus. Some frats are worthwhile endeavors with lifelong benefits - and others are an excuse to drink to excess on a regular basis. Most fall somewhere in between. But don’t kid yourself that staying Independent means your kid won’t drink or party.</p>

<p>(The “cooler” tradition tends to be a southern thing, along with mountain or beach weekends. In theory, the trade-off is that the boy pays for himself and his date to attend the weekend - lodging, food etc. As to whether the girl rooms with her date or with another girl who is attending the weekend… that could depend on the individuals. I’m not a fan of the tradition at all, although I’ll admit some of the coolers are really cleverly decorated. I just wish they’d fill them with soda and junk food. :frowning: )</p>

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<p>

Mizzbee, this is very true and is a whole other ball of wax separate from Greek life. Girls don’t have to be in sororities or hang out with frat boys to think like this - it’s a bad cultural trend. I wish I could figure out how to reverse it.</p>

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<p>“Every frat and sorority is different. Every chapter, every campus. It’s hard to paint with a broad brush.”</p>

<p>No, it is NOT hard to paint with a broad brush. The data is there for everyone to see. Of course, all of our own children never lie, and they all belong to the “good fraternity” (sorority) that really isn’t like all the others, and they’ve never had more than two drinks at a time, and easy sex? They’re all waiting for marriage.</p>

35

<p>My mother called me up a short while ago about this thread, and after reading it, I felt an obligation to come on here and defend the Greek System.</p>

<p>I am currently an undergraduate in a fraternity. Joining a fraternity was the greatest decision I have ever made in my life. Fraternities and sororities are independent organizations that are run by college students.</p>

<p>What makes fraternities/sororities so great are the bonds you create with your brothers and sisters that no other organizations can compare to. Between the secrets of ritual, the joy and sorrow you share, and your loyalty, these people will be your friends for the rest of your lives. (Our adviser, who is in his late 70s is still best friends with his brothers.)</p>

<p>I am in charge of new member education in my fraternity, and hazing is one of the first things I talk about. We don’t haze because we want to educate our new members on being good brothers, not “good new members.” If I saw any hazing going on within my chapter, the member(s) in question would be immediately terminated from the fraternity, and face punishment with both the university and possibly law enforcement. The national fraternity and university both have zero tolerance for hazing.</p>

<p>So, why does hazing still go on? The issue is with the schools themselves. My school has 5 sororities and two fraternities. No hazing happens whatsoever because the school is not only good with education on these subjects, but the school sponsors them. My school encourages students to go Greek because of how great they are here.</p>

<p>Why the negative stereotypes then? The Greek system saw its biggest growth after the end of WWII when our troops got home. Due to the large amount of alcoholism among college men returning home, hazing was a very big issue. It also led to the media picking up on it. (The movie Animal House.) </p>

<p>My fraternity this year raised hundreds of dollars for Leukemia and Lymphoma. It also raised several hundreds of dollars for the American Cancer Society. We host events on campus that give students activities to do (other than get wasted on a weekend). We encourage high academic achievement (and award those that do so). Members that don’t have a high GPA need to work with our academic chair to get their GPA up.</p>

<p>Hazing does happen at schools nowadays, but it’s the fault of the institution. Also, it’s quite rare. The media loves a good story. Which will get a bigger reaction: “Fraternity raises hundreds of dollars to fight cancer” or “Frat gets shut down after cocaine bust”? When you think about the thousands of Greek organizations across the US, of course there will be some negativity. However, the positives get left buried below the surface.</p>

<p>Being in a fraternity has given me leadership experience, event planning experience, conflict management skills, social skills, a high GPA, and encourages me to be active in many organizations on campus other than just a fraternity. (If it weren’t for my fraternity, I wouldn’t be involved in any clubs/organizations on campus. Currently, I’m involved in several.)</p>

<p>Most US presidents have been in fraternities. According to the logic of all the naysayers, most presidents are alcoholics that probably did some crazy stuff to get where they were. (Maybe the White House hazes. Law enforcement should look into the White House parties.)</p>

36

<p>Mini, you want some data? Here you go. (Go ahead and do some fact checking if you don’t believe me.)</p>

<p>“Of the nation’s 50 largest corporations, 43 are headed by fraternity men.”</p>

<p>“85% of the Fortune 500 executives belong to a fraternity.”</p>

<p>“40 of 47 U.S. Supreme Court Justices since 1910 were fraternity men.”</p>

<p>“76% of all Congressmen and Senators belong to a fraternity.”</p>

<p>“Every U.S. President and Vice President, except two in each office, born since the first social fraternity was founded in 1825 have been members of a fraternity.”</p>

<p>“A U.S. Government study shows that over 70% of all those who join a fraternity/sororitiy graduate, while under 50% of all non-fraternity/sorority persons graduate.”</p>

<p>“The Greek system is the largest network of volunteers in the US, with members donating over 10 million hours of volunteer service each year”</p>

<p>“As Alumni, Greeks give approximately 75% of all money donated to universities”</p>

<p>If your child ends up getting hazed, it’s their own fault for not:

  1. refusing to partake in the activities
  2. reporting the activities</p>

<p>As far as peer pressure goes, they clearly aren’t leaders if they aren’t willing to say the word “no.”</p>

<p>Anyone that gets hazed has no one to blame except themselves. There’s always a choice.</p>

37

<p>Yes, and Jesus was a member of Beta Nu.</p>

38

<p>Thank you for proving me correct on your ignorance.</p>

39

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<p>Wow. Just, wow. Does the same rule apply to date rape?</p>

40

<p>FraternityMan, here are some facts that are apparently missing from the IntraFraternity Council “Talking Points” website:</p>

<p>[Study</a> flags damaging effect of joining a sorority on body image and eating behaviors](<a href=“http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/03/100302112012.htm]Study”>Only the beautiful need apply: Study flags damaging effect of joining a sorority on body image and eating behaviors -- ScienceDaily)</p>

<p>[Greeks</a> are More Likely to Abuse Alcohol and Binge Drink](<a href=“http://www.higheredcenter.org/services/audiences/students/fraternity-and-sorority]Greeks”>http://www.higheredcenter.org/services/audiences/students/fraternity-and-sorority)</p>

<p>[The</a> Fraternity House Environment Contributes to Rape Culture](<a href=“https://campus.fsu.edu/bbcswebdav/institution/academic/social_sciences/sociology/Reading%20Lists/Stratification%20(Gender,%20Race,%20and%20Class)%20Readings/Martin-GenderSociety-1989.pdf]The”>https://campus.fsu.edu/bbcswebdav/institution/academic/social_sciences/sociology/Reading%20Lists/Stratification%20(Gender,%20Race,%20and%20Class)%20Readings/Martin-GenderSociety-1989.pdf)</p>

<p>And for those who think that their fraternity/sorority is “one of the good ones”:</p>

<p>[Nine</a> out of ten students who have experienced hazing behavior in college do not consider themselves to have been hazed.](<a href=“Celect”>Celect)</p>

<p>ETA: mini’s right – this stuff is not hard to find.</p>