The Johns Hopkins University vs. The University of Michigan (Bioengineering)

<p>[Long post… scroll to “HERE” if you’re in a hurry/don’t care]</p>

<p>My entire high school career culminates in this choice. I’ve spent hours researching both universities to the fullest; I actually stumbled across a link here in JHU’s extensive message boards. After researching every thread about UMich and JHU back to 2005 and witnessing the extensive knowledge of many forum members, it seems a simple choice to bring my case forward- maybe selfish, but a choice that will determine my entire future seems worth a little self-indulgence. </p>

<p>I suppose a bit of background is in order. I come from an all-IB high school in Michigan (yes, in-state for UMich) where ~50% of students go to UMich; however, the slaughterhouse of admissions this year spiked that number to nearly 75%. In fact, all my close friends plan to attend UMich (I know, friends never substantiate a good reason, but I thought I might as well throw it out there since I’m not the * most social * of people). Although I’ve been accepted to a few universities, the only contenders are UMich Honors (LSA) or JHU. </p>

<p>As per my dreams, hopes, and etcetera, Bioengineering constitutes my main field on interest; specifically, I’ve always found the possibility of the *manipulation * of chemical interactions at a cellular and intracellular level to completely fascinate and engage me. Although I’m quite confident this field will remain my main interest for the rest of my career, horror stories of people completely changes majors at a specialty school surface in my mind. I would also like to do a minor in economics to acquire some business experience since Engineering alone is a quick road to a dead-end job working for people with half the intelligence and education (or so I’m told, at least). Graduate School at any of the top bioengineering programs, however, denotes the main goal of my undergraduate education; although personal growth and exploration along the way is paramount as well.<br>
Financial aid, or lack thereof, often defines a college decision- another reason why many people of my class knocked back to UMich. Fortunately, academics and economics combined to provide me a favorable circumstance. UMich has, essentially, given me a full ride- 10k in Finaid and a 10k scholarship to LSA. JHU, however, presents a problem- although they awarded me 41k in Finaid, it leaves a 5-7k gap (depending on 3rd party scholarships) that my parents are unable to fill (therefore, ~30k loans by the end). Furthermore, my parent’s income will likely change, completely altering the amount of Finaid either school will award me. </p>

<p><em>[HERE]</em></p>

<p>I suppose I should also list my academic plan for each school. Please keep in mind that I’m a high school senior that’s only done research. I have no idea what the real world offers or threatens- please feel free to give me a reality check or any advice at all! Since I’d want to dual-major at UMich (and my LSA Scholarship requires I keep at least one foot at LSA), Biomedical Engineering (Biochemical Concentration) and Economics appear the best pursuits. JHU offers a major perhaps more tailored to my actual interests- the Chemical and Bimolecular Engineering major (Molecular and Cellular Concentration) and a minor in Economics. Again… if you think I’m completely ignorant of what’s going on… please inform me.
[Links| JHU: Johns</a> Hopkins University Whiting School of Engineering | UMich: Biomedical</a> Engineering: Concentrations ]</p>

<p>Finally- to the meat of the post. UMich and JHU are both very different schools, each offering a unique undergraduate experience. My choice hinges on the strengths and weaknesses of each school in the aspects important to me. I’ll post a quick list of the few most important with a quick description: Faculty Excellence, Department Strength, Graduate School Preparation, and Intellectual Environment. </p>

<p>(1) Faculty Excellence: The ability of a professor to communicate a complex idea, entertain and enthrall the student base, and teach a course of any size with complete comprehension and zeal outranks any other aspect of the school. Even if a department falls short in terms of prestige, resources, or size, if the professors can rally me to excellence, it will compensate for any shortcomings in the department. </p>

<p>What are the differences between JHU and UMich? I’ve read that UMich employs more professors with higher honors than JHU- whose professors are sometimes a bit too concerned with Research and Grads.</p>

<p>(2) Department Strength: Although a University may pull itself to the forefront of any rankings with the strength of various departments or graduate schools, all those resources become meaningless if they’re not channeled to my department (UNDERGRADUATE Bioengineering). Modern or newly renovated facilities also enhance the appeal of a department- especially in the field of engineering. </p>

<p>I know JHU has the #1 Biomed program in the country, but how does this affect the Chem&BiomechEng major? Also, the closest major I could find at UMich to my interests is BME with a Biochem concentration. Does going this specific even matter at this level? I also know UMich has a new BME facility; how are both school’s undergrad facilities in terms of modernity? </p>

<p>(3) *Graduate School Preparation: * Working for four years should not only garner acceptance to an elite bioengineering graduate school, but I want to be completely prepared for any challenge I might face there. Creative, critical, and technical thinking skills- the depth to which these types of skills are covered is just as important as the course material itself. The ability to work with professors on research, the types of research opportunities, and how easily those skills will transfer to graduate school or career success are all paramount. </p>

<p>JHU definitely has the bigger research program, easily available to freshman. However, I’ve seen statistics points to most of the funds being used on Biomedical engineering or applied physics research; although I know a JHU student can research in any department, I’d hope I could gain experience in my field. UMich, however, still has an excellent research program- including UROP for undergraduates. In fact, a professor of physics contacted me a month or so ago to see if I was interested in any research he was doing and that he’d be happy to accept me if I chose to come to UMich next year. The strength of JHU’s Bioengineering program, however, seems as if it completely outclasses UMich’s- would this affect my acceptance into any grad school or my knowledge of the field as a whole?</p>

<p>(4) *Intellectual Environment *: Although an atrophied social life is not something that I’d want, huge frat parties and constant social engagements aren’t on the top of my priority list. I’d rather have a peer community that encourages intellectual debate and discussion incorporated into socialization. XKCD anyone? I’m not the biggest fan of either football or lacrosse… although clubs are important to me. I’d like to be able to explore and develop myself in new directions, try new things or resurrect some old passions. Is there any place for the socializing nerd?</p>

<p>Going off the scores, what I’ve read, and who I’ve seen accepted into UMich here, I have my doubt about the majority of the class; although the smartest people can easily act the dumbest. UMich, however, is so large that even if 10% of the class is actually very intelligent and not drugged out, that’s still a few thousand people. I can’t really say much about JHU apart from its reputation and what I’ve seen on Youtube… anything to mention here? Also, I know I rank in at least the Top 10% of UMich, but I would only be average at JHU. What kind of effect does class ranking/prominence have on attention from professors/options and opportunities open to me?</p>

<p>(5) Anything Else: These things are hardly make or break categories, but they do offer enough influence to be mentionable. Although I have yet to visit JHU, the campus and dorms look worlds better than the situation at UMich. The campus, from the online pictures, looks absolutely amazing- an actual place to read, relax, or play games… although I don’t mind UMich’s integration into Ann Arbor, it feels like there’s no place to sit and quietly read or play an intense game of Ultimate without walking miles to a park. I’ve heard a mixed bag about Baltimore… as long as I stay away from the Medical Campus, I should be fine? Although it may be bias because I haven’t visited JHU yet, I really do enjoy the setting of Ann Arbor- the entire town’s focus around the university is a bonus, in my opinion. UMich is also only a 45 minute drive from my house, so any emergencies (stain removal doesn’t sound fun…) would have that added benefit. The isolation of Baltimore might also be a bonus… I don’t really know. Finally, the financial situation might merit a second look here. JHU would be a struggle to attend financially, I would most likely not have the best resources (laptop, meal choices, etc.) available to me, nor would I have the ability to participate in any of the study abroad programs. Since UMich also has a large portion of the current class and previous classes attending, I would have an established base of peers (in fact, I’m quite close to a few current freshman in Honors and Engineering). Does this deter or enhance the college experience- would it even matter at a school with 40k people?</p>

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<p>Sorry for such a long post, but I’ve really put all my effort recently to make this crucial decision that will affect me for at least the next four years. Everything I’ve written above reflects my knowledge and experiences as an 18 year old, high school senior. So, once again, I warmly welcome any correction to my presumptions or ignorance. You are the ones with the experience- could you spare a half pence of it?</p>

<p>Go to Michigan and save your money for grad school. If you excell there, you can go anywhere.</p>

<p>I don't think money should be too much of a concern. $30,000k is not the end of the world. I also don't think that knowing a lot of students from your high school on campus can have a negative impact. If Michigan had fewer than 5,000 students, I can see how knowing 200 or so students would have a negative impact. But in a campus with over 25,000 undergrads, 200 students is a proverbial needle in a haystack. </p>

<p>Furthermore, Michigan/Ann Arbor is one of the most intellectually stilumating environments I have ever seen. </p>

<p>Academically, they are both awesome, with Michigan having the edge in Economics/Business and Johns Hopkins having the edge in the Biological Sciences. However, at the undergraduate level, there is very little that either one of those universities cannot provide. So I would not worry too much about any of the above.</p>

<p>I would say you should go with whichever school appeals more to you. Where do you think you would have a better, more complete undergraduate experience. Go there!</p>

<p>I think you're way overanalyzing this. Choosing a college is not a scientific endeavor. Its a matter of finding the best fit. </p>

<p>Hopkins and Michigan are both great schools--so you can't make a serious mistake from an academic point of view. They are, however, as you point out, very different places.</p>

<p>I'm unabashedly biased. I went to Hopkins and both my children followed me. We all got a superior education and had a great time to boot. I wouldn't have traded the experience for anything. With no disrespect to Michigan, it simply is way too big for my tastes. Hopkins, to me, is like Goldilocks and the three bears--not too big but not too small. It only has 4400 undergraduates and @1800 graduate students so it is a fraction of the size of Michigan--and yet it has over $2 billion annually of funded research--so in that sense it is much larger than Michigan. It is a very intellectual place (Yes, Michigan has equally smart people and probably as many of them but they are a minority at Michigan and do not set the cultural norms as they do at JHU). Hopkins' facilities are second to none. But the best thing about Hopkins is the sheer volume of opportunities. For someone interested in biomedical engineering--Hopkins offers opportunities simply not available anywhere else. </p>

<p>It's a shame if you cannot visit. As terrific as the campus looks in pictures--the real thing is really much better. Also, while I would rate Ann Arbor as a better overall college town---the areas around Hopkins' Homewood campus (Charles Village, Hampden, Roland Park) are really quite wonderful and far better than most schools have. And Baltimore offers a lot, although it also has it share of problems and areas to avoid. But if you are used to Detroit--Baltimore will seem like nirvana.</p>

<p>^ I agree with Bonanza that you're way over analyzing this.</p>

<p>Try to visit Hopkins. As Alexandre said, the $30k in loans is a manageable amount if you prefer Hopkins.</p>

<p>If it was me making the decision, I'd go to U Mich Honors and save the money. I like the college town of Ann Arbor and the big football/sports environment. Also, U Mich has an awesome engineering program. I think BME is quite over-rated...it seems everyone and their brother is doing it and I think the degree is too limiting in terms of employment opportunities...I would choose to major in the broader, more traditional engineering majors (like mechanical, chemical, or electrical). But thats me. </p>

<p>Visit Hopkins and then decide based on the environment you like better. Teaching quality, grad school placement, and academics will be very similar no matter what option you choose.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

<p>Thanks for all the advice! Maybe I did put way too much thought into this >_></p>

<p>I just visited UMich a few days ago and now am planning to visit JHU this Monday. </p>

<p>The biggest phrase of the day at UMich was, "The University of Michigan has everything you need to make a big school feel small!" I don't know if Alexandre could help, but does that really happen? It's a great advertising point, but it might be as accurate an infomercial... </p>

<p>A question to the Hopkinites, I won't be able to explore Baltimore as much as I'd like when I visit. What kind of 'personality' does the town have? What kind of events usually occur... or is it culturally dead? Any information would be helpful ^_^</p>

<p>i dont post here very often, nor do i attend hopkins but I just wanted say that I was raised in baltimore and it is a great, exciting city. I use to walk all around the downtown area as a kid.
There IS actually rich culture found in baltimore especially around the mount vernon area( very close to hopkins) and around charles village, where my sister lives and where jhu located. It is artsy, diverse and has a young professional feel all up and down those areas.
Just wanted to put in my two cents b/c a lot of people look down upon the city but it truly has amazing scenery and nice weather in the spring and fall :)</p>

<p>Flayum, you can definitely make Michigan small. If you are motivated and willing to take the more advanced and challenging courses, you classes will generally be small with a great deal of interaction with faculty. One on one research opportunities with faculty for Science and Engineering students are plentiful from day one thought UROP. Also, there are over 1,000 organizations on campus, so no matter what your interest is, chances are, there will be a small group of students sharing your interest and you will be able to connect with them through one of those organizations. Ultimately, your experience at Michigan, like your experience at any university, will depend entirely on your own effort. </p>

<p>I am glad you visited Michigan and that you will visit Johns Hopkins the day after tomorrow. That will give you a complete picture and allow you to decide based on something more tangible than what others are telling you.</p>

<p>I returned from Hopkins last night... I'm completely blown away by the campus- it's absolutely amazing! It was definitely more serene than at UMich... you could easily just sit anywhere and do homework, read a book, or take a nap. </p>

<p>However, I still have a few concerns that none of the student tour-guides were able to answer... </p>

<p>-How are the professors? I haven't heard a single rant from either school about how good/bad the professors are. Although I've been told that UMich's pool is a mixed bag... depending on the class, you could get an all-star or a dud. What about Johns Hopkins... an amazing university, but does it attract as many top-notch teachers as UMich? Since, above all to me, it will be HOW I am taught the subject rather than WHAT I am taught specifically. Although from previous posts, it seems it's equal at both schools?</p>

<p>-"Flexibility" is the term I heard thrown around often at both UMich and JHU. I know UMich has Top 10 programs in most majors, but JHU said all their programs are 'very well rated'; however, I haven't seen any numbers. Short of BioEng, Econ, and Creative Writing... does JHU have any strengths that can oust UMich? This is my main worry... if I completely change my mind about BioEng, what would I do at JHU?</p>

<p>JHU is ranked among the top 25 in most academic disciplines. It is ranked among the top 10 in Biology, English and History. In Engineering, JHU is also quite strong in Civil and Environmental.</p>

<p>If you prefer Johns Hopkins, go for it. You really cannot go wrong with those two schools. I stand by what I said in post #3 of this thread.</p>