Johns Hopkins vs Michigan - Engineering and Overall Fit

College Search & Selection
1

<p>Hello fellow CC users,</p>

<p>I'm a high school student from Maryland and I'm having some trouble deciding between Johns Hopkins University and University of Michigan for undergraduate engineering, and any help would be appreciated. I see many pros and cons to both schools, but the two main factors to consider are which school I would be more successful at (in the long run), and which school I would be happier at. </p>

<p>I am unsure which particular path within engineering to go down, which is what makes this decision particularly difficult. However I know that I am interested in mechanical, biomedical, and materials engineering (I did not apply to the biomed program at Hopkins). I am also interested in getting an entrepreneurship/business minor, although I'm not quite sure how I would use such a minor in the real world. In your opinions, which is more important - the international prestige of Johns Hopkins or the higher ranked engineering departments of Michigan? The closer connections between students and faculty available at Hopkins or the larger alumni network of Michigan?</p>

<p>Another question related to the academics of the two schools - would I have to spend more hours studying at Hopkins to receive the same grades that less hours spent studying would get me at Michigan?</p>

<p>The second factor that is important to me is my happiness/fit/what have you. An active social life is very important to me - I do want to go to parties and leave college with some great stories. However, this doesn't necessitate a state school. And I am aware of the judgement I am going to receive for this, but I have heard from many people (and my visit somewhat confirmed this) that Hopkins is for the most part devoid of attractive girls. While I'm not going to allow such a superficial factor determine where I go to college, I am an average teenage guy and that is important to me. To that extent, can someone from Hopkins elaborate on how much mingling occurs between Hopkins and Loyola and Towson students?</p>

<p>Another thing that is important to me (which may seem contradictory to my last paragraph) is that I am inside an intellectual community that discusses subjects more intellectual and interesting than solely football, women, and parties.</p>

<p>Some other details - Michigan will cost about 55k for me, whereas Hopkins comes down to only 42k. My parents have determined that if I choose Michigan I will have to make up the extra 13k myself. I've also been accepted to Illinois, Vanderbilt, and Maryland at College Park (where I got a full ride). Lastly, I've been waitlisted by Columbia, Duke, Carnegie Mellon, WashU, and Northwestern - would you pick any of these schools over the ones I've been accepted to, in the slight chance that I get accepted from the waitlist?</p>

<p>A big thank you to anyone who can provide a knowledgeable opinion!</p>

2

<p>Great question, and first of all congratulations! All are tremendous schools, and you should be proud of yourself for having such a good problem in the first place.</p>

<p>With regards to prestige between Hopkins and Michigan, I believe that there is little (if any) advantage of Hopkins over Michigan overall, and that in engineering, Michigan could perhaps have the edge, as you suggested. Overall, I don’t think it will make much difference either way however. </p>

<p>If you think that the smaller size of Hopkins would be a significant factor, then that’s something you should consider. I think that establishing faculty connections will still be entirely possible at Michigan; you may have to be more proactive about seeking them out, but you will by no means be devoid of opportunities to connect with professors on a close level. The question of how the size of the school impacts the social environment is something else entirely, and ultimately can only be answered by you. Do you think you’re the type of person who will feel lost in the crowd at such a large university? Or would you enjoy the extensive opportunities to meet new people?</p>

<p>No doubt that the Michigan girls are much more attractive (and plentiful). Although it’s so cold up there it might be hard to tell sometimes… Honestly if you want the most attractive girls, choose Vanderbilt. Of course, that should by no means be the most important factor in your decision, but I agree that it is a consideration.</p>

<p>All of these schools (with the possible exceptions of Illinois and Maryland) will have intellectual communities, simply because of the nature of the students they are admitting. I seriously doubt you will have any problem finding other similarly minded students at most of the schools you are considering, although a school like Michigan could have a smaller percentage of the student body who would fit into a purely “intellectual” mold.</p>

<p>Finally, I think at the moment you need to disregard the schools where you have been waitlisted, and only come back to them IF you are accepted off the waitlist. Additionally, out of those schools, the only ones I’d stay on the waitilist for over Michigan and Hopkins would be Columbia, Duke, and possibly Carnegie Mellon due to your interest in engineering.</p>

<p>Best of luck in your decision, and just remember not to be too selfish!</p>

3

<p>^I disagree with a lot of the points you’ve made, but that’s understandable as you’e yet to attend college.</p>

4

<p>With what specifically? I’m curious (I’m trying to make a decision as well).</p>

5

<p>“All of these schools (with the possible exceptions of Illinois and Maryland) will have intellectual communities, simply because of the nature of the students they are admitting. I seriously doubt you will have any problem finding other similarly minded students at most of the schools you are considering, although a school like Michigan could have a smaller percentage of the student body who would fit into a purely “intellectual” mold.”</p>

<p>Given the OP is engineering, you might be surprised (I’m not) that Illinois’s admitted engineering students are just as strong as Michigan’s</p>

<p><a href=“Facts & figures”>http://www.engin.umich.edu/college/about/facts&lt;/a&gt; (32 median admitted ACT)
<a href=“http://admissions.illinois.edu/apply/requirements_freshman.html#college”>Page Not Found, Illinois Undergraduate Admissions; (31-34 admitted range)</p>

<p>Both of the above will have lower ACT scores from an enrolled perspective.</p>

<p>Both are a bit behind Hopkins’ academic profile (again from a test score standpoint only - not from a learning perspective):</p>

<p>Note the following is for enrolled Hopkins engineering students, and not admitted (which is higher)</p>

<p><a href=“http://profiles.asee.org/profiles/6200/screen/19?school_name=The+Johns+Hopkins+University”>http://profiles.asee.org/profiles/6200/screen/19?school_name=The+Johns+Hopkins+University&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Hopkins with an ACT range of 32-34 for enrolled engineering students.</p>

6

<p>Columbia and Duke have weaker engineering departments compared to Michigan and Hopkins as well. Carnegie is a wash at the undergraduate level depending on the department.</p>

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<p>True, I admit that my opinion was based more on overall academic reputation than specifically engineering, which is probably due to my own perceptions (I am not going into engineering). I do think that if OP is not entirely set on engineering, Duke and Columbia would be much better choices if down the road he decides to change his major (VERY common for college students).</p>

8

<p>Depends on field. I’m at McKinsey (a very prestige oriented management consulting company) and was an engineer before. Michigan (Ross) compared to Duke has similar placement. The OP could definitely switch fields into Ross if desired.</p>

<p>It’s tough for you to say one school has equal or more name recognition than another based on limited experience. </p>

<p>JHU also has superb name recognition amongst engneering graduate schools, a bit more than Duke in my experience:</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.jhu.edu/careers/students/explore/pgsmajors/Mechanical%20Engineering%202005-2007.pdf”>http://www.jhu.edu/careers/students/explore/pgsmajors/Mechanical%20Engineering%202005-2007.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>Blah2009, when it comes to hiring students for your company, which would be a better person to hire - an engineering major from Hopkins, an engineering major from Michigan, or a business major from Michigan? To what extent would a minor in business help one’s chances? Or is it all about the gpa and extracurriculars?</p>

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<p>A business major from Michigan would have the higher chance if that’s what you’re asking based on the prevalence of Ross grads in the firm. Preparation is a different matter as engineering majors are better versed at business and market analytics. To get hired at McKinsey however, you need to have very strong grades (typically around Magna Cum Laude level) and strong leadership skills and experiences . I’d worry more about getting top grades as compared to the specific college reputations you are comparing if you are gunning for McKinsey.</p>

<p>A minor in business does help. JHU has decent placement in WallStreet as well. See here for majors likely to have the minor:</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.jhu.edu/careers/students/explore/pgsmajors/2007-2011/Economics%202007-2011.pdf”>http://www.jhu.edu/careers/students/explore/pgsmajors/2007-2011/Economics%202007-2011.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“http://www.jhu.edu/careers/students/explore/pgsmajors/2007-2011/Applied%20Math%20&%20Stats,%202007-2011.pdf”>http://www.jhu.edu/careers/students/explore/pgsmajors/2007-2011/Applied%20Math%20&%20Stats,%202007-2011.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>About 28% of the respondents are going into Investment Banking</p>

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<p>@njlokk‌
Even for reputation ranking, UMich overall may be not behind JHU much. Indeed, TImes put UMich ahead of JHU this year in reputation.
<a href=“World Reputation Rankings 2014 | Times Higher Education (THE)”>http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2014/reputation-ranking&lt;/a&gt;
For engineering, JHU is not even on their top 100 list in the world while UMich holds the #16 spot.
<a href=“Subject Ranking 2013-14: Engineering & Technology | Times Higher Education (THE)”>http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2013-14/subject-ranking/subject/engineering-and-IT&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>billcscho, for that garbage ranking, I can point to several others that directly contradict it. UMich is more well known than JHU, Duke, Penn, Northwestern, Cornell according to that ranking. Needles to say, that’s a bit controversial.</p>

<p>Per US News, JHU scores higher then UMich in the reputational rankings by fellow University presidents:</p>

<p>Harvard 4.9 rating
Stanford 4.9 rating
Columbia 4.6
JHU 4.6 rating
Cornell 4.5 rating
UMich 4.5 rating</p>

<p>Overall University rankings also place JHU at 12th versus UMich at 27.</p>

<p>For engineering per US News, JHU has numerous top 20 programs (<a href=“http://premium.usnews.com/best-colleges/johns-hopkins-university-162928/overall-rankings):”>http://premium.usnews.com/best-colleges/johns-hopkins-university-162928/overall-rankings):</a></p>

<h1>1 Biomedical Engineering / Bioengineering</h1>

<h1>20 Chemical Engineering</h1>

<h1>20 Civil Engineering</h1>

<h1>21 Computer Engineering</h1>

<h1>21 Electrical / Electronic / Communications Engineering</h1>

<h1>8 Environmental / Environmental Health Engineering</h1>

<h1>13 Materials Engineering</h1>

<h1>13 Mechanical Engineering</h1>

<p>UC Riverside some how ranked in the top 100 in your list has no engineering programs ranked above 49 and is ranked as the #69 engineering school nationally in US News. It pales in comparison to JHU.</p>

<p>So your source is a bit lackluster to say the least.</p>

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<p>People also call USNew ranking garbage. Anyway, each ranking has a different criteria. I am sure there are always ranking that would put schools in different orders. Times is also a well trust media. If you read my comment again, I did not say one is better than the other.

Note that I am talking about “reputation ranking” as I am responding to the prestigious comment. For school ranking at Times, it actually put JHU ahead of UMich by a couple spots.
Also note that the ranking at TImes is for “Engineering and Technology”, not engineering school.</p>

<p>For your information, UMich college of engineering is rank #7 by USNews. Most of the engineering majors (except ChemE) at UMich are ranked within top 10.</p>

<h1>7 Biomedical</h1>

<h1>13 ChemE</h1>

<h1>8 Civil</h1>

<h1>7 Computer</h1>

<h1>6 EE</h1>

<h1>4 Environmental</h1>

<h1>2 IOE</h1>

<h1>7 Material</h1>

<h1>2 Mechanical</h1>

<h1>8 Engineering Physics</h1>

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<p>You have to remember that those rankings are biased towards larger engineering programs. It has nothing to do with the quality of the learning that goes on at the undergraduate level (which is what really matters).</p>

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<p>You may call it bias or have different criteria. Everyone is biased as we often use our own judgement. There are many ways to compare different schools/programs. They are just for reference anyway. Students should pick a school that fit them better disregarding of the ranking in any sort.</p>

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<p>^Agreed. But Michigan is neither more famous or “better” as you’ve tried to indicate. Hopkins is more selective AND their engineering students have higher academic credentials coming out of high school compared to Michigan. If Hopkins’ engineering program didn’t hold its own versus Michigan (which is largely derived from its graduate reputation), Hopkins would not be able to enroll stronger engineering students compared to Michigan. </p>

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<p>Indeed, Bill, you might believe that ranking and delude yourself and your daughter into believing Michigan is more famous than Penn, Hopkins, Cornell. I can tell you that isn’t the case in engineering academia or in large parts of the real world. They are call comparable at worst.</p>

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<p>Says the man who claimed JHU is superior to Berkeley for engineering. lol…</p>

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<p>Where did i state that rml? </p>

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<p>“You have to remember that those rankings are biased towards larger engineering programs.”</p>

<p>Caltech. 'Nuff said. </p>