Thank you.
Yes, we are all, at some level, at the mercy of the Admissions Officers.
Would it help if I said, “comparatively almost complete control”?
Actually, information on that does indirectly appear on each college’s web site, in the form of net price calculators, which can allow an individual prospective student and family to get financial aid estimates from each.
Of course, there are some family financial situations where neither would give good financial aid (e.g. uncooperative divorced parents (custodial parent not remarried in Princeton’s case)) and others which make it more difficult to get good net price calculator estimates (e.g. parent income is mostly from small business, self-employment, farm, etc. rather than plain old W-2 employment). But many prospective students can collect anecdotes applicable to themselves (rather than relying on others’ anecdotes) from the college’s web site.
A prospective student who sees that the college’s net price calculator result is clearly unaffordable needs to be aware that s/he is aiming for sufficient merit scholarship (or hidden merit scholarship in terms of “preferential packaging” of financial aid) to make the college affordable, not just admission. This means assessing reach/match/likely/safety in terms of the scholarship, not just admission.
I am loving this thread of your sons journey. ?
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Thank you for doing this thread. While it doesn’t exactly apply to my first son’s situation it may coincide closer when my second son gets closer. Either way your approach has given me thoughts of ways to improve the journey next time. It’s your thread and I know you’ll do it your way and that is certainly more than appropriate. Keep up the good work raising your children.
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Great thread and thank you for volunteering your time to post it.
What seems extraordinary to me about your son is how well he handles the rejection. Kids of all stats would be better off if they could view a rejection as more like getting passed over on a dating app than getting dumped by your one true love, but kids (and parents) struggle with that. Good on you for raising a kid who know his self worth is not determined by some random admissions committee who never even met him. People who are willing to kiss a lot of frogs to find a prince go far in life:)
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I wouldn’t describe the process as random. Uncertain describes it better. No adcoms are flipping coins or spinning wheels to decide whom to admit. Spending the time to select schools that are likely to admit and provide adequate financial aid will reduce the uncertainty in the process. This is where your specific results could be helpful for others.
I study the CC threads for possible schools for D22. I research any promising schools, including looking at likelihood of admission, academic programs, retention & graduation rates, and general characteristics (such as size and location). I then run the NPC. If the net price calculator result is not favorable, I cross it off the list. I would rather concentrate my time and effort on likely schools, not hoping that a financial or academic reach will “randomly” provide a good outcome.
I don’t know how many schools D22 will apply to, but I doubt it will be more than 8, probably 5 or 6. One of the schools she is interested in offers rolling admissions, and the NPC result is favorable. It may be the only school she applies to, which would be great. D19 had the stats to apply to a meets need LAC ED and was accepted in December. One and done was great for her!
In any event, it would sure be helpful if you would share your son’s admission results.
Nothing wrong with having that dream. You will never know if you have been the exception until you put yourself out there. By doing this you will never have to wonder what would have happened if you had… Honestly, my kids have been that exception many times, not because they deserve things any more than anyone else but because they took the risk. They have also put themselves out there and were not the exception but they tried, they were disappointed but recovered, not devastated, life was not over.
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Certainly one should take rejection in stride, and OP’s son seems well able to do that, so it will all work out for him, which is great. If there were no tangible costs to the “follow your dream” strategy, I could endorse it, but there is a cost often. Apply to a dream if you wish, but recognize that in so doing you may forfeit your best chance at a semi-dream, having been pushed to the RD decision round by using your ED/SCEA shot on a dream. That may be a reasonable tradeoff, but there is a tradeoff involved.
Random. Uncertain. That’s also an apt adjective.
Sounds like you have it all worked out. I’m certain you’ll use a strategy you think best fits your situation.
Thanks.
I like the analogy. It really does fit from a Fatal Vision point of view. One person declares complete unconditional love for another person who can’t be bothered to even acknowledge the devotee’s existence. Then, upon rejection, the devotee crumbles into a whimpering heap and loses grip on reality. I am so glad I don’t have to deal with that with my student.
I’ve been happy with the way he deals with the Denials. There have been one or two that he “felt” more than the others, but even those he shook off after a few moments alone and returned to his normal self.
From March '19 to now has truly been a great process to go through together.
Everyone’s situation is different. For us, I fail to see the trade off. DD20 Did not apply ED to any school due to our budget as we need to compare all offers . All schools, even dreams are pretty much in one of 2 pots, EA or RD. ED/SCEA in our situation would have caused undue and unnecessary stress, especially if not affordable.
In other words:
- Direct loan: $5.5k
- Student work earnings: perhaps $3 to $5k (as commonly estimated by college financial aid offices)
- Parent (your) contribution: up to $5.5k but that is a stretch
Basically:
- Net price under $5.5k => need one of the above three.
- Net price $5.5k to $11k => need two of the above three.
- Net price $11k to $14k/$16k => need all of the above three, which is a stretch with no margin for error or unexpected financial setbacks.
Correct?
I think they qualify for full Pell as well, another $6k per year.
Sounds like a lot of kids I know. Can’t afford full price private or OOS without aid, not likely to get much of either financial aid or merit money. But then, there are the surprises at times which happen only if you allow those possibilities.
We had the interesting opportunity a few years ago with two cousins applying to college at the same time. One could go full pay. The other needed aid. EFC for him was $25k, but parents were not willing and ale to come up with more than $10k which meant even the Pennsylvania state schools needed to come up with money if he were to go away to school. With student direct loans and work and parental contribution, the budget was about $22k that the student and parents were able to pay.
One kid (A) had a strong set of High school courses with a 3.4 UW and slightly under 1000 SATs. But AP test scores of 4s and 5s. The other (B) less difficult courses but a 1300 SAT with 3s on the AP exams. They applied to some of the very same schools. No URM, legacy or other hooks involved. Both had strong extracurricular activities. Both looking at liberal arts type majors with business possibilities but flexible in that area.
The common schools were Villanova,Fordham, Gettysburg, Dickinson , Pitt, Penn State, UDel, UMD-CP
A was accepted to all but Villanova. Applied to Gettysburg and Dickinson under Fairtest. UMD offered second semester admissions.
B was accepted to Pitt , Penn State, UDel and UMd with no stipulations on starting semester. Received no financial aid offers other than loans and small amount of work study.
Both did get money (B a combination of aid and meet, A, writ only) from some of the smaller Catholic schools but no overlap on the ones to which they each applied. None of them met full need for B. A was offered a full tuition award to a nearby Catholic school as his best offer. He could have commuted there. In addition, Duquesne and Fairfield each offered about $7k. B was offered money to St Joseph’s, Scranton ad Lasalle and other schools that I do not remember but no award was more than $10k, and tended to hover around that amount. His best choice cost wise was to commute to Westchester University but their offer was a small (under $1k) scholarship, subsidized Direct loans and Workstudy. He could, of , course , take the rest of the Student Direct Loan unsubsidized.
Drexel U offered B admissions but was unaffordable with $10k in self help (mostly loans) and $10k in grants off of a $60k+ price tag. PLUS was outright presented to the parents to make up the gap in EFC.
Northeastern offered A admissions at full price but with a first year abroad route.
Im working with a cousin now, with a $15k budget which means either commuting or a full tuition scholarship. His profile is more like B’s. A lot of the same schools are on his list. He has a $20k EFC.
Yep
Yep
@Sarrip Yes, exceptions abound, which suggest hidden levels to this game. Absent risk, the exceptions would not be discovered. CC’s collective wisdom misses some of the juiciest parts.
@EconPop enjoying your thread. I have an S in this stat range and have been very pleasantly surprised with his admission results thus far as well as the merit he is receiving. I do have a question for you. Do you have any hesitation sending your son to one of his affordable reach admits? This is something we have been thinking about. Not sure how comfortable we are about sending him to a school where he is in the bottom pool of admitted students. Maybe he could handle it, but maybe it would be best to send him to a school where he is more solidly in the middle or upper end of the applicant pool. Wondering what your thoughts are on this for your son.
That is a thought I’ve contemplated for decades, even before I had children. I don’t think a widespread conclusion applies here. I think it matters about each individual student, and that yes some students would definitely benefit from being a big fish in a small pond.
For my Son, aside from being placed in a rigorous STEM setting, I think he could handle most other rigorous academic settings.
The one non-STEM area that slightly concerns me would be a school that focused heavily on reading, like St John’s College. He is a strong reader and has no trouble comprehending or expounding, but his idea of a good time is not to sit inside and read for 3-4 hours a day. He’s okay with studying for as long as it takes, but he wouldn’t look forward to reading two or three books a week continuously.
I think he’d do well in rigorous academic environment.
Thank you for this thread! I think the message is that you can have a good outcome with research & realistic outcomes. Of course the schools to apply to would vary based on geography & major. This is a great road map for others. I’m looking forward to your son’s decision.
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