<p>^^ Lol. Pretty sure I saw in another thread that you’re Indian, not Native American.</p>
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</p>
<p>I cannot wait for the day when Stanford finally rejects you in the hopes that it might humble you even in the slightest, native american or not.</p>
<p>@CoolRunning: You said this:</p>
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</p>
<p>Which is untrue. Ethnicity does play a role in admissions decisions and URMs DO have a better chance of getting in to most elite schools. Granted there are exceptions, as there are exceptions to anything, but general anecdotal evidence supports this notion.</p>
<p>Guys, let’s be clear about, and get past, this excuse:</p>
<p>Elite colleges do not eliminate Smart Asians/East Asians/ Wherever Asians to make a spot for a brown or black applicant.</p>
<p>They would ABSOLUTELY make a spot for a talented GREEN/GRAY/PURPLE applicant that contributes positively to the campus that is ALSO QUALIFIED!</p>
<p>Got great stats? Great!!! We have 200 just like you for ONE spot.</p>
<p>You just can’t be a one-trick-pony in this world anymore.</p>
<p>Guess who gets the spot? Right . . . the one that has MORE than just great stats.</p>
<p>Up your skills a bit . . . and then complain.</p>
<p>Of those complaining, what were you RECRUITED for?</p>
<p>Thought so . . . you know there are a lot of tier 1, 2, and 3 looking and paying for just PSATs and SATs.</p>
<p>Makes you think about it . . . doesn’t’ it?</p>
<p>MarabioSax I am 1/2 Indian, and 1/2 Native American so 1/2 URM.</p>
<p>Ascaris I hope they don’t but I have seen “perfect” Asians rejected over and over again. I have seen less qualified students over those “perfect” Asians accepted because they are URM (i.e. Hispanic, African-American)</p>
<p>Define “perfect Asians” UC? This should be good!!! LOL!!!</p>
<p>This guy: applied to Stanford but was rejected!!!</p>
<p>John117:</p>
<p>Stats:
SAT: 2390 (800 M; 790 CR; 800 W)
SAT II: 800 M2; 800 Physics; 800 US History
ACT: 36
GPA: 5.0
Rank: 1/500
Other Tests (AMC, AP, IB):AP Biology - 5, AP Physics B - 5; APUSH - 5, AP Calc BC - 5, AP Psychology - 5, AP European History - 5, AP Chemistry - 5, AP Macro Econ - 5, AP Statistics - 5, AP Physics C - 5, AMC - 130, AIME - 8
Subjective
Essays: Really good? I guess not seeing how I got rejected
Recs: Good. I saw them
Supplementary Material: None
Summer Activities: COSMOS (9th), TASS (10th), and RSI (11th)
Hook(recruited athlete, legacy, Nobel Prize): First gen
Personal
Location: CA
High School Type: Public
Ethnicity: Indian living with a Chinese parent
Gender: Male
Other
Extracurriculars: Biomedical research on prolonging life. Just research at Stanford lab center. Math club president. Captain of the Swimming team (Won multiple gold/silver state and national medals).
Awards: Caltech Signature Award, USABO, USAMO, National Merit Finalist (240), ELKS Most Valuable Scholar, Intel Finalist ISEF, Siemens Finalist, Presidential Scholar, Junior Olympics Swimming gold medalist, Top 10 scorer of National Computer Science Exam.
Why you think you were accepted/deferred/rejected: I have no idea…
Advice? Commiserations? Feel like bragging?: I guess everyone hates me</p>
<p>i know a chinese girl with similar stats (2370 sat, 36, act, 790 chem, 800 math2, 800 bio, 4.0 gpa, all 5s on ap exams, debate team, academic team, internship at lab, hundreds of hours of tutoring hours, etc) straight up rejected EA</p>
<p>the fact of the matter is that there is discrimination…</p>
<p>if the black person had similar stats and they chose him over her, then fine, okay. but most of the time, the black person (or whatever URM) has the 2000 sat and 700 sat 2s with similar ECs that gets accepted. that is lowering the bar no matter how you look at it.</p>
<p>because california has a lot of asians, a lot of totally qualified asian applicants get rejected so as to prevent stanford’s demographics from being 50% asian.</p>
<p>I have a cousin. She got A+'s pretty much her whole life, 'cept in one or two classes-- we’ll call her GPA a 4.0. She took something like 15 AP’s in school, and self-studied 8 more with 5’s on all but one. She got 5’s on all but one. She played violin at Carnegie Hall (needless to say, she had other violin awards). Her SAT was a 1580. She was also a varsity swimmer and tennis player. She volunteered tons, and was a member and officer of numerous clubs. </p>
<p>Far as personality goes, she was a bit snarky to me (she’s like 4 years older, so that’s understandable), but pretty funny and entertaining.</p>
<p>Oh, and she got rejected.</p>
<p>That’s the closest I’ve ever known to “perfect”. The fact that I’m applying when she got rejected is some sort of sick humor. </p>
<hr>
<p>And here’s my example.</p>
<p>Hi, I’m a poor black kid from New Orleans. I have a 2370 SAT and a 3.9 GPA at a competitive school with a hard course load, and am an officer and member of various clubs. I suffered through struggles X, Y, Z. I can haz admit to Stanford?</p>
<p>Now switch black with Chinese. There ya go.</p>
<p>At a college fair, me and some of my friends went to talk to a HYPS representative-- he was some sort of Dean of Admissions. First, my Chinese friend goes up and talks to the guy, tries to chat him up-- drops his stats: 2370 SAT, 3.9, lots of extra-curriculars and pretty cultured. Rep isn’t interested. Black friend goes up, chats him up, drops his stats. Rep perks up, they go off on a 10 minute chat. He even gets the rep’s email.</p>
<p>Point proved?</p>
<p>Yes my point exactly. It is not discrimination it is more so campus diversity. Stanford would suck if more than half the campus was Asian. No wonder Stanford has an Asian quota.</p>
<p>Ok freezingbeast I am starting to agree with you more and more. The only thing is that it’s not the amount of Asians killed in WWII that people dispute. It’s whether or not (even though they were a homogeneous population) it was genocide because “those people” were considered our “enemies.” The only problem critics of affirmative action have is they don’t propose any alternatives (other than complete removal of the current policy and ignoring the past). </p>
<p>People love to think the injustice for URM’s, but I’m specifically referring to African Americans in this situation, was some thing a long time ago the end of the Civil Rights Movement is just now celebrating its 44th birthday. Some people’s parents are older than that and its highly probable that a majority of those people’s grandparents had their varying degrees of racial stigmas and prejudices about African Americans that were passed down like a family curse (just look at how people react to interracial relationships).</p>
<p>There are few people who think as progressively as you do (I am not being sarcastic) and thats why I ask for an alternative, at least until society catches up–how we determine if they’ve “caught up” is a completely different debate.</p>
<p>LOLOLOLOL…woo im done…hi well let me start adchang by saying I applaud your cousin for her achievements she probably got into an amazing school anyway even though your *****ing and moaning on this thread about her sheer perfection as well as your own. </p>
<p>Well I must say I am a black student from the MIA and my stats are comparable to yours. Although I only got a 2300 on my SAT (which clearly proves you are one question smarter than me <em>sarcasm for the record</em>) and my GPA is only a 3.879 unweighted which clearly pales in comparison to your 3.9…quick question though: a lot of college board members like yourself go on about URMs “taking spots” that hard working asians or whites clearly “deserve” but riddle me this…if asians and whites combined comprise 60% of Stanford’s undergraduate class why was your cousin in all her glory not “qualified” to join their ranks?</p>
<p>It seems to me that you assume that a decent proportion of the URMs at Stanford are underqualified whereas the asians and whites have the right to be there, so according to your logic either the 25% of Stanford URMs are magically sucking away thousands of acceptance letters from deserving asian and white candidates OR the other 60% of the white and asian students at Stanford all had comparable statistics with their 4.0 GPAs 1580 composite scores, outstanding musical performance, amazing extracurricular leadership, and back breaking community service involvement. You tell me.</p>
<p>BTW not trying to sound condescending or anything but the grammatically correct way to state your final question is “Point PROVEN?” (<–hey look, more sarcasm).</p>
<p>you need to read that post i sent adchang too</p>
<p>That was GOOD!!!</p>
<p>Zzz… woo I’m done now.</p>
<p>Takethelead, I suggest you read the thread first. Someone asked me to offer examples of how affirmative actions works. I gave anecdotal evidence. Then I made fun of myself for applying with inferior stats.</p>
<p>First off, the numbers I am throwing out are mostly irrelevant. Let’s just leave it at “they are all very good”. If I felt like being a dick, I could go on about how comparing my 2370 to your 2300 is like saying that the difference between a 2330 and a 2400 is “statistically insignificant”. </p>
<p>There is something called the ‘cookie-cutter Asian applicant effect’. It may have some proper name, but that is what I call it. It is the stereotype that all Asians are soulless, award-getting, grade-spewing zombies. Like zombies, there is a horde of them. They are foreign, one of ‘them’. There is nothing comparable associated with a hardworking student of other ethnicity. She was an Asian from California. I think that a combination of randomness in the applications process and this resulted in my cousin’s rejection. If you can think of a better reason, then please do tell. </p>
<p>This is college confidential by the way, not college board. Perhaps you are on the wrong forum.</p>
<p>So you assume that I assume? No, I don’t. Perhaps you’re confuse me with Wuchu. My example had two kids, one Chinese, one Black, with identical objective stats and roughly equal subjective ones. Black guy “won”.</p>
<p>I’m not a native English speaker, so my idiomatic expressions aren’t perfect. Sorry. I probably comma-spliced the hell out of this post too, but, oh, well.</p>
<p>I’ll try and dig up my LDD notes on AA later.</p>
<p>Well u failed to address my point which was the ultimatum u are suggesting so let me say it again “It seems to me that you assume that a decent proportion of the URMs at Stanford are underqualified whereas the asians and whites have the right to be there, so according to your logic either the 25% of Stanford URMs are magically sucking away thousands of acceptance letters from deserving asian and white candidates OR the other 60% of the white and asian students at Stanford all had comparable statistics with their 4.0 GPAs 1580 composite scores, outstanding musical performance, amazing extracurricular leadership, and back breaking community service involvement. You tell me.”</p>
<p>By the way I am also in statistics so let me tell you–yes, the difference between my 2300 and your 2370 ARE statistically insignificant…are we going by standard deviation and percentile because according to the mean SAT score we are both in the top .3%…but lets look at the sectional curves. I happened to take my test during june when the curve for math was two wrong equals a 760, my reading was a perfect and my writing section was of course subjective and came out to a 740. Essentially with your 2370 you most likely got three questions correct that I missed, maybe even two if your curve was better. The two i got wrong in math were “easy” algebra 1 questions I rushed on while running out of time so if you think that your score proves anything try “being a dick” so I can make you look foolish. </p>
<p>And in response to your “making fun of yourself for applying with inferior stats” were you looking for sympathy or understanding, because all I saw was arrogance and false humility. Don’t pretend like you think you are unworthy of applying because you are numerically, slightly worse than your cousin, because everyone reading this knows your too intelligent to assume that two people’s intrinsic value and potential to contribute to a school are demonstrated by scores and a laundry list of achievements. And if you really thought you had no chance and were so unworthy you wouldn’t have applied. Nice try though.</p>
<p>Oh yeah two more things with your extremely accurate and extremely common (my best friend sarcasm again) example of these two virtually identical students of different races your premise is terrible. The subjectives will never be the same or “roughly the same” they may both be well-written but each of them reveal different things. Also in your situation that Black student you mentioned would most likely be an outlier. So since we just had our statistics talk let’s tie it in to psychology: the school might take more interest in the Black student because they want to understand what about his circumstances led to his success versus other applicants nationwide. The same thing could work for an Asian applicant that succeeds at a varsity sport where Asians are underrepresented (which is essentially everything except tennis). I’m sure a poor Asian with those stats or even those that might deem him or her as “underqualified” who happened to make it on ESPN’s top 100 high school basketball players in the nation would draw MUCH MORE attention than your poor New Orlean’s African American student.</p>
<p>As for your cousin I’m curious where did she end up going to school. Let everyone on the thread know.</p>
<p>Right there is the difference between who gets accepted and who gets rejected . . . and it sure isn’t about race, color or creed.</p>
<p>TakeTheLead gets accepted because he/she is clearly a winner. Anyone reading his/her post can “feel” it.</p>
<p>Guess what decision the “whiners” will get.</p>
<p>Yep, the world has little time for excuses . . . but makes the time for winners.</p>
<p>Anecdotal evidence can’t really be used to to prove points very well anyways, so heres some published research.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.princeton.edu/~tje/files/Opportunity%20Cost%20of%20Admission%20Preferences%20Espenshade%20Chung%20June%202005.pdf[/url]”>http://www.princeton.edu/~tje/files/Opportunity%20Cost%20of%20Admission%20Preferences%20Espenshade%20Chung%20June%202005.pdf</a></p>
<p>^according to this source, holding other variables constant, race could compose up to 180 points (on the 1600 scale, so more like 270 points pm the 2400 scale) on the SATs in terms of admission rates.</p>
<p>Top universities definitely do discriminate (“to make a distinction in favor of or against a person or thing on the basis of the group, class, or category to which the person or thing belongs rather than according to actual merit”) based on race.
It’s an indisputable fact.
(cite your sources if you want to claim that top colleges are race blind)</p>
<p>However, are they justified in doing so? and to what extent?
What are the possible benefits and implications of such policies on the future of diversity in America?</p>
<p>The impact that these choices will have on the future (of each schools and American society) is too significant to simply, “accept things the way they are”. </p>
<p>@takethelead
I’m not one to get offended by these things but others might.
All Asians are not the same…
Japanese =/= Chinese =/= Korean =/= Viet =/= Indonesian =/= Malaysian =/= Filipino
(ironically the curse of being an Asian is that you are often judged as a “group”, rather than an individual. Oh hes just Asian, thats why hes good at math/science/taking tests, not because he/she works hard.)</p>
<p>
I won’t go off on a history lesson here, but only Japan was considered the “enemy” of U.S in the pacific theater. Try googling unit 731.</p>
<p>
I didn’t expect such a blatant ad hominem from a parent…
You know what, you’re right, we should all just stop complaining, after-all, where has dreaming gotten us these 50 years?</p>