<p>Hooks + Story trump absolutely everything.</p>
<p>Proof:
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/what-my-chances/1606396-claremont-mckenna-first-gen-low-income-hispanic.html”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/what-my-chances/1606396-claremont-mckenna-first-gen-low-income-hispanic.html</a></p>
<p>Of course, applicants who carry a hook are going to need to highlight how they were affected (story).</p>
<p>Harvard has accepted students with a GPA as low as 3.0 and a SAT score as low as 1600. But of course someone with these stats has to be extremely unique or has some sort of hook</p>
<p>According to the 2017 class, those accepted and had low GPA, had 2000+ SAT score. Those who scored low on the SAT had very high close to 4.0 GPA. </p>
<p>Asking the UNKNOWN question for an Unknown answer is not very helpful here.
Nothing is guaranteed with admissions even when you have all the assumable factors in place.
All you can do is treat ALL of the factors as important as the other…and no exceptions.
Best of luck.</p>
<p>From our research, it appears that the Ivies are more likely than most schools to take the full SAT into consideration for admission. Many schools really focus on the two objective measures realizing that the writing is both subjective in some senses and has been proven to be ‘coached’ via formula. (if you write a certain way, your chances of a good score are much better) There are likely other high-end schools that mimic the Ivy approach, but when we did our digging, it turned out that a very large number simply use the writing score for placement or as a secondary measure. (spare me the lecture about how the writing is more predictive, most schools understand that it is also subject to manipulation more than the core test areas).</p>
<p>I always feel sad for kids getting 2200+ SAT scores that are being pushed or push themselves to re-take and re-take. They read the 25%-75% data and assume that the scores drove the admission rather than simply that higher scoring kids tended to have a better overall package. It is also a case where the practice begets reality. If the assumption among high performing kids is that there score is not good enough and they keep taking a pushing their score a little higher, those admitted push up the data. (my assertion is that most, if not all of them would have been admitted regardless, but it becomes a vicious circle) </p>
<p>Most likely, when they have applicants below the thresholds, but with an interesting EC or hook, they set them aside into a special pile and review them for special consideration. Those are exceptions and how we hear about students with seemingly ‘low’ scores getting into top schools.</p>
<p>Ultimately, the lesson is there to see. Get good grades, have good test scores and be involved in your community. Of course, doing something exceptional (inventing something, etc.) will stand out more than volunteering at your church, but, I digress…</p>
<p>My impression is that for most schools with selective admissions, good grades, course rigor, and good test scores are the “ante.” It gets your chips in the pot. Then how you play the rest of your hand determines whether or not you “win.”</p>
<p>(I’m so proud of myself—an extended poker metaphor, and I don’t even play cards. 
) </p>
<p>@LikeThis: If you think that a 3.97 and a 4.00 are going to be materially different to anyone, then you are suiting up for the wrong sport.</p>
<p>Penn admission representatives says they read ALL applications. But they don’t say that they read ALL of ALL applications. Barring a hook, anything over 3.5 GPA with a rigorous program will likely get a decent look. If your SAT scores are poor (less than 2000) and your GPA is poor (less than 3.5), to the pile with you unless the coach already contacted admissions. But there are plenty of kids with high SAT scores and eh GPAs who do get into Ivies. Vice versa, low SAT high GPA IMHO is more difficult, especially if the rigor is not there. </p>
<p>For anyone with a 3.7 GPA or higher, they’ve either have to have middling SAT scores or no ECs to really worry. One stat that is average will not kill an app for an Ivy. Many high stats will not be a shoo-in for an Ivy.</p>
<p>It does seem that some schools vary in terms of what is important. Penn stressing academic rigor over GPA, BU said “take the hardest courses, better to get a C in an AP course than an A in a regular course” and a third college said “don’t take AP courses if you are going to get Cs in them”. AP course grades are tempered with AP test scores, and other courses are tempered by SAT and SAT subject scores.</p>
<p>Your goal as an applicant is to not lose out in the initial round, to make them read your essay and look at your ECs. I do agree 100% that time is better spent than retaking a 2200+ SAT to try to get a 2400 or break 2300. A summer course might be a good idea to replace one bad grade.</p>
<p>To make yourself a happy college applicant and admitted student, apply to a few reaches, a few possibles, and a few definites. I know there are a few schools on my son’s list that if everything hits the fan from now on, that is, his senior grades are Cs and Ds, his high test scores and previous GPA will get him in. I also know that some of his reaches are low probability, and one is somewhat higher (20% vs. 10% for the average student based on legacy and applying ED). When September 2015 comes, he’ll be going somewhere.</p>
<p>Let alone that there are a handful of kids who go to community college for two years and transfer to an Ivy, although usually as a freshman due to the difference in rigor/retaking certain classes.</p>
<p>For super-selective schools, perhaps the most important part of your application is the weakest part of your application, because that is the part that will get you rejected. The usual criteria for admission at such schools would be:</p>
<p>a. Top end grades/rank in the most demanding course work.
b. Top end test scores.
c. High level of extracurricular achievement, award, or recognition.
d. High quality essay.
e. High quality recommendations.</p>
<p>Minor hooks could compensate for minor deficiencies in one of the above, while major hooks (like your parents donating enough to name a building) could compensate for greater deficiencies.</p>
<p>< Here, try this: Go to College Confidential’s Academic Index Page: <a href=“http://www.collegeconfidential.com/academic_index.htm”>http://www.collegeconfidential.com/academic_index.htm</a> ></p>
<p>I can’t get the Academic Index Calculator (from above link) to work for me, I plug in the numbers and hit ‘calculate’ and nothing happens. Would someone please have a go for me and see if it works for you - thanks!</p>
<p>^^ it worked for me (maybe it’s a browser issue). Try the calculator on Michele Hernandez’s website: <a href=“http://www.hernandezcollegeconsulting.com/academic-index-calculator-form/”>http://www.hernandezcollegeconsulting.com/academic-index-calculator-form/</a></p>
<p>Thanks @gibby - I did try the calculator at Michele’s website and it does work for me, but it doesn’t take into account the SAT Writing score. Unless the Writing section counts for nothing with the top schools (??), then I’d like to know what difference if any it makes to add in my kid’s Writing score, as it was (unfortunately?) the highest of the 3 scores… </p>
<p>Is there a version of the Academic Index Calculator that uses ACT scores instead of SAT1 scores? </p>
<p>You have to convert your ACT to an SAT using: <a href=“http://www.act.org/solutions/college-career-readiness/compare-act-sat/”>http://www.act.org/solutions/college-career-readiness/compare-act-sat/</a>. </p>
<p>biggest factor is ethnicity. for asians, a 2300 is necessary for top 10 schools, for whites, 2200, for urms about 2000 or 2100. </p>
<p>Sigh. If I may, for top schools, the biggest factor is to avoid blending in with the thousands of other applicants and not to be boring. </p>
<p>As an Asian admitee to multiple ivies with test scores in ~30th percentile of my freshman class, I’d say that what got me success was the fact that I had a very interesting story. I’m sure there were 1000s of rejected Asian applicants who had better scores than me.</p>
<p>I think @theanaconda 's post grossly oversimplifies the reality of top college admissions. His/Her point is widely held and this subject is oft-debated. </p>
<p>At our rural, medium sized high school, the number one reason for NOT being admitted to top schools is test scores. </p>
<p>^^ I highly doubt that’s the reason because student’s never understand exactly why they were rejected. Even if a student calls the admissions office after decisions are made and directly asks “Why was I rejected” colleges won’t be able to give a student a definitive answer because (a) that information is usually confidential and (2) oftentimes the answer is the committee just didn’t get a warm and fuzzy feeling when they read your file – at least not as much as when they read other accepted student’s files.</p>
<p>On the other hand, when you are accepted, sometimes your regional Admissions Director will write a personal note on your acceptance letter letting you know what resonated with the office – and I’ve never heard a single story of any Admissions Officer at any college writing “We loved your test scores, so welcome aboard.” </p>
<p>FWIW: The notes my kids received from their AO complimenting them were about their essay!</p>
<p>I’ve worked in high school guidance offices for 28 years…believe me, test scores are the number one reason for rejection by top schools. I have a daughter at an Ivy & know that they all use a “holistic” approach., however I’ve seen countless students who have the GPA with rigor, the EC’s, the essays, the recomendations, but their SAT’s were below average. MUCH greater prevalence of this senerio because almost every student in the top 10% will have all the other credentials. </p>
<p>^^ Well, the high school you worked at stands in contrast to the high school my kids attended (Stuyvesant HS in New York City). With an average SAT of 2100 and ACT of 32, over three-quarters of the students matriculate to the top 20 colleges every year. So, when a student is rejected – and most students get a rejection from about half the colleges on their list — it has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that their test score wasn’t high enough.</p>