<p>On the flipside, we can’t discount the very human desire to reward perceived perfection or higher achievement. Here’s an anecdote related to me by an Ivy admissions officer several years ago. At this school, there was a movement afoot to categorize the students in bands based on test scores. Let’s say the ACT 35s and 36s and the SAT +2350 kids all in one band (i’m not gonna check the equivalences – this is just for illustration)… Then the next band for the next lower rung of scores and so forth.</p>
<p>(Readers already placed student essays in certain bands based on initial reads so this pre-sorting was not unheard of)</p>
<p>The idea was that if someone truly believed that a 2350 and a 2400 were academically equivalent, let’s blind out the actual score and evaluate them w/o regard to that score – since they were both in the same band.</p>
<p>Although discussed, it was not adopted. People STILL wanted to avoid missing out on rewarding the 2400 or the 2380 kid – even if philosophically, everyone was in agreement that the difference between a 2400 and a 2350 are negligible for college success predictability.</p>
<p>True story. Have admissions committee rooms advanced since then? Should they? I don’t know.</p>
<p>What I’m saying is that there is nothing special about the number 2100. It’s a bit better than 2090, and not as good as 2110. It’s just some random number you’ve thrown out there that has no particular significance. Your comment is way to black and white when the truth is gray. </p>
<p>Of course you can factor it into 2^2 times 3 times 5^2 times 7. Which I suppose is special to somebody. </p>
<p>The 2100 wasn’t arbitrary. It is near the 25th percentile for the Ivy’s.
Keep in mind, the Ivy’s are interested in keeping their “ranking” for which SAT scores play a large role.</p>
<p>@TomsRiverParent: You really need to do more research on the college application process before giving advice. Here, try this: Go to College Confidential’s Academic Index Page: <a href=“http://www.collegeconfidential.com/academic_index.htm”>http://www.collegeconfidential.com/academic_index.htm</a>
At the bottom of the page, click on the link to bring up the Academic Index. Then, input these figures:
SAT Reading: 600
SAT Math: 600
SAT Writing: 600
SAT Subject Test scores: 600 & 600
Class size: 500
GPA: Unweighed 3.8, 3.9 or 4.0</p>
<p>As you can see from the AI, a student with a 3.8, 3.9 or 4.0 GPA, but a low SAT of 1800 (maybe they had a bad day) would still be a competitive applicant (albeit at the low end) for an ivy league school. So, depending upon a student’s rank and GPA, a 2100 is far from the “cut off.” </p>
<p>The 2100 came from the IVY’s data (each college) of 25th percentile.
1800 is NOT competitive for IVY.<br>
You would have to be someone awfully unique to get past initial screeners.
I recommend you look up the 25th and 75th percentile for each Ivy instead of something on CC.</p>
You have a lot chutzpah to disagree with the results of the Academic Index – something that’s been around for the past 50 years and which ivy league schools calculate on every student. Please read Michele Hernandez’s book A is for Admission; you could learn a lot from it.</p>
<p>
Maybe. But, a student could also have great teacher recommendations, a thought provoking essay and an SSR from their guidance counselor that says the student has dyslexia and it’s difficult for them to take timed tests. </p>
<p>
We’ve been through this on another thread. You keep adding the subscores of the 25th percentile and 75th percentile thinking those totals are the 25th and 75th “cut off” numbers. When, in fact, a student may have had one of those scores, but not necessarily all of them. At the 25th percentile, a student could have had one of those subscores but 2 lower subscores. Therefore, the cut off could be lower than 2100. And, by using the Academic Index, you can see that it could go as low as 600 on each subsection.</p>
<p>Gibby, I have to say that you are the one giving wrong advice here.</p>
<p>Well, I inputted the values of what you suggested on the AI website, 600x3 SAT I, 600x2 SAT II, unweighted GPA of 3.9-4.0. The returned value is 199. If you note, the threshold of “competitive applicant” is 210. The more telling mark is the AI index being 3 out of 9. As someone noted earlier, by the time AI index gets down to 6 or 5, the chance is already minimum. Yes, there will be some who gets in at an AI index of 3. But unless you are URM, athlete, or having very influential parents, you have better chance at Las Vegas.</p>
<p>This matches my expectation and obviously SAT of 1800 is not competitive at all.</p>
<p>Sorry, I wasn’t trying to give bad advice or be misleading. I was trying to illustrate that TomsRiverparent’s “cut off” of 2100 is not a firm number, but is variable. As another poster said, an applicant’s SAT can drop to 2090 or even 2050 and still be in the running if they have a high enough GPA.</p>
<p>Obviously a student with an SAT of 1800 is not, in most circumstances, a viable applicant for an ivy. However, an applicant who is a recruited athlete with a 199 to 200 calculated academic index can be admitted to some ivies, as they are not one standard deviation from the average admitted student. And every year, 240 recruited athletes (the maximum allowed under Ivy League rules) are admitted to each school. And some of them at the lower ivies have AI’s of 200 to 210.</p>
<p>In a word: athletics. If you are regionally ranked at least in a desirable sport, you go to the head of the applicant pile. How is it that Harvard even has a 25% class less than 28 on the ACT. Stupid athletes! </p>
<p>Here’s the revised version of the original rubric. This is based on what actual admission officers and the data say. It’ll work best for white applicants.</p>
<ol>
<li>Actual GPA counts less than you think BUT consider if you have genuinely succeeded in your classes, as adcoms will note that more than the actual GPA.</li>
<li>SAT/ACT counts <em>way</em> more than you think. SAT IIs are important but often neglected.</li>
<li>Coming from a rigorous program counts almost as much as your GPA. </li>
<li>ECs really matter. Many people get in with the traditional captain of a club / non-recruited athlete profile, but they’re lucky. Involved and impressive ECs are vital if you want to rise to the top of the pile, as steps 1-3 have eliminated probably only ~50% of the applicant pool at best.
5 Essays are important because they verify your writing skills. Also, a good one can reveal much more about your personality than you’d think. Recommendation letters become more and more important every year because they show what you’re really like in the classroom. As apps become more competitive and polished, recs become the only way to get an honest look at an applicant.
6 You <em>can</em> blow an interview and they are key to determining “level of interest” for those schools that care about it.
7 Hooks pretty much trump everything.</li>
</ol>
<p>AT THE END OF THE DAY
SAT IIs and recommendation letters are the two elements most underestimated throughout the admissions process. Many people settle for low 700s and teachers that they did well with, and suffer as a result. Interviews are by far the most overestimated part of the process. Unless you claimed you were the second coming of Jesus you aren’t going to be eliminated. Even quiet kids don’t suffer because colleges understand that a shy kid can be just as brilliant.</p>
<p>So would an academic index of around 5-6 at least advance an applicant past the cutoff?
Or do they simply only consider 7-9s on the Academic index scale…</p>
<p>Admissions officers always profess how they read every individuals application holistically. That’s why I feel inclined to say that the essay has the most influence when an admissions officer either accepts or rejects an applicant. The academic index shouldn’t really matter when an applicant emotionally pulls a reader, or convinces an officer that they will absolutely bring a unique student to the university. </p>
<p>In any case, banking my application on the success of my essay seems like the most hopeful option.</p>
<p>Still, the next essential question begs to wonder what an applicant must score on the academic scale to remain competitive in top universities (HYPS, etc.).
Do people with less than 210 on the academic scale simply have no chance?</p>
<p>Can’t we assume though that the academic index applies to all applicants? Or is this a phenomenon primarily used for ranking athletes. So wouldn’t the standard for regular students exceed the standard for recruited athletes by a wide margin?</p>
<p>Say the average academic index for a recruited Harvard Athlete stands at 210, then what is the average academic index for non-athletes students at harvard (or any other university for that matter)?</p>
<p>Ivy league schools are the only ones that acknowledge using the Academic Index. For non-athletes, with all things being equal, the closer your index is to 240, the better your chances. If Harvard’s athletes have a 210 AI or higher, I think it’s a good assumption that most of the student body has a 210+.</p>
<p>Do colleges really recalculate your GPA by their own scales? I have a UW 4.0 by my district’s scale (90~100= 4.0, by semester) but if it’s by the 93~100 = 4.0, by semester scale, my GPA is around 3.97. </p>