Cal Tech, Stevens, and MIT all come to mind immediately. All DV3 NCAA fencing teams. Ivies probably too competitive in fencing for an Unrated fencer. Even rebuilding Brown probably a long (long) shot. You might be better served looking for top STEM schools first and then seeing if they have a fencing club.
For men’s college fencing clubs, I think a good place to start would be schools that only have women’s varsity teams (Cornell, Northwestern, Tufts, etc). Often the men’s club and women’s Varsity practice together and share resources.
I have also head good things about Dartmouth’s club program.
On a separate topic of interest, if memory serves, this is the week most academic pre-reads are completed.
Hoping for good news for all who are in the midst of this stressful process. It is almost over.
In our experience, we did not feel comfortable telling anyone outside the family until the LL was actually received and I would encourage others to exercise the same level of caution and discretion…
Nevertheless, good luck to all and looking forward to hearing the recaps and cautionary tales in October.
There is an annual college fencing club championship – here is the website: http://www.usacfc.org/
There are two years worth of results posted, so you can see which schools participated, and how many they sent to the event. Not every school with an active fencing club will necessarily go, but these are some of the schools that have large competitive-level clubs.
RIT in Rochester is an excellent STEM school with a very active club. They have started sharing resources with the Rochester Fencing Club (floor space, some coaching help). Case Western Reserve in Cleveland is also a super STEM school with an active club.
I can’t speak for all college fencing clubs, but any I’ve heard of are overjoyed when someone walks in with ANY competitive experience.
@1998parent15: Since your son is a rising junior, there’s still time to get some experience at USA Fencing-sanctioned events — NACs, ROCs, RJCCs. Depending on where you are located, may not even have to entail a flight/overnight trip.
@superdomestique: like many, I get a little superstitious. Son has committed, but I won’t be saying anything until LL is in hand. It does sound like there is some last minute jostling going on out there, as I’m sure there is every year. “It’s not over 'til it’s over.” 'looking forward to updates in early Nov.
@chelsea465, as my colleagues @brooklynrye and @sevendad will tell you, my middle name is “its not over until its over”
Congratulations on your success. Make sure the essays are good (and not about fencing), and that all the recommendations are submitted on time. The earliest LLs are issued on October 1st so to qualify for this wave you need to get the full application in by September 15th.
Given where we are in the recruiting process for the HS class of 2018, I was recently reminded of an unexpected outcome and I offer the following story as a cautionary tale:
This happened in a different sport and I share this experience to emphasize the importance of parent involvement in the recruiting process and hearing what is said, not what one wants to hear.
A year after my son graduated from HS, one of his friends (a rising HS senior) was going thru the recruiting process with all the academically-elite schools. This student was an excellent athlete and was top ranked in our state and had interest from all the Ivys. In July, he confided to my son that he had committed to a most prestigious Ivy and was ecstatic that the process was finally over. We were happy for him as he is a good kid, a great athlete and it was, a most prestigious school.
Later that summer, I was at a parent gathering for our HS (we still had children at the school) and I saw this student’s mother and whispered congratulations to her. I mentioned the relief athletic recruiting provided for our older son’s college admissions experience and but how we weren’t fully relaxed until the LL arrived on October 1st. When she asked me what a LL was, I hoped she was joking. Unfortunately, she wasn’t.
We excused ourselves from the parent gathering and I asked what were the circumstances surrounding her child’s commitment. She said the coach told her child that he/she was “on the list” of athletes that were being recruited and her child committed to the program on that basis.
Questions of: Where I am on the list? How many people on the list ultimately are admitted? And most importantly, will you be supporting my candidacy with a LL? were never asked. The mother said she had let her child handle all the negotiations.
As it was late August. I suggested to the mother to confirm her child’s understanding of the school’s commitment to her child with the coach and to perhaps talk with the college’s AD, as well as our HS CC to make sure everyone was operating under the same assumptions/timeline.
Fast forward to October, this student’s facebook page announces the receipt of a LL from a different, but similarly prestigious Ivy.
We later learned that when those important follow up questions were asked, this student was 5th on “the list” and this school historically got 3 students from the list to be officially recruited (w/LLs).
I am glad that those hard questions were asked early enough for this family to make alternative plans. Without the answers to these most important questions, this student might have wasted his/her all-important EA/ED opportunity and would likely have had to approach other schools during the RD round after all the recruited positions had been allocated.
Given the amount of hard work required by families to get to the position of having a recruited athlete at an academically-elite school, it may be foolish to let the final negotiations take place without a parent’s involvement. Young people can often hear what they want to hear and may not have the experience to ask direct and often hard questions.
As we are entering the time of year where final decisions are being made, I urge parents to leave as little to chance as possible.
First…thank you to everyone that posts on this thread. As a new member, I just got finished reading every word and the value is immense to someone new to the fencing world.
My question is about the college club teams. Does anyone know if admissions consideration is given to kids who can fence on a club team (perhaps rated, but not highly so)? I am talking about breaking a tie with another student with similar grades and scores, not getting in with lesser academic stats, which I’m sure does not happen. I mean, do admissions counselors consider how they will fill club teams when admitting students or do they just bank on kids naturally applying and joining the club?
My DS has fenced for about 18 months (entering high school this year with an E rating), but I have no idea if he’ll make it to recruited levels or not. He’s got to make some choices about whether to continue to focus on fencing, which he loves, or commit to other time-intensive activities that I’m sure he will also enjoy (e.g., Debate, Model U.N., etc.). It would be helpful to know whether fencing only means something to NCAA schools, or also carries some weight in admissions decisions elsewhere. I don’t want to dissuade him from continuing fencing, but I also want to at least be eyes wide open on the prospects for admission down the road.
Maybe this is too far afield for this thread, but thought I’d ask - and again, thank you all for the insight!
Hi all, I’m a parent new to this thread, hoping for some insight regarding planning for Junior Year events important for college fencing recruiting. Candidate is a strong fencer (A rated, on cadet + junior points list) and 4.0 + GPA (no SAT scores yet) and hoping to fence at NCAA Div 1 level potentially (Ivies, etc.). My question is this; how important is it to fence in Div 1 NACs this year? (will fence all cadet and junior NACs). Thanks in advance for your tips!
Space Voyager, are you East or West coast? Portland (December NAC)is the only Div I without a Jr or Cadet event attached so that might be a factor in your decision. With the others you can just tack on an extra day.
Hi Chelsea465 - we are east coast and have a rough year of traveling ahead – even when a Div 1 is attached to another event, it can add considerable time to be taking off of school when the tournaments are in California for example and the Div 1 events are 2-day affairs. The probably means missing at least 2 days or maybe even more, depending on flights (factoring in our willingness to risk a flight the day of an event, tolerance of red-eye flights, etc.). Or events are on Friday and Monday with no holidays! I am really annoyed that the October NAC is not over Columbus Day weekend – oh well … anyway, that’s too much detail, thanks for the comment!
@newfencingdad - I cannot speak for all colleges featuring club fencing, but know for sure that there are some that may give weight, if only to break a “tie”, to an athlete committed to competing for the club. Ratings are not as important at the club level. I would not count on an admissions counselor advocating this for you. I would approach the club coaches and gauge their support directly.
@SpaceVoyager - If your son is an “A” rated fencer, on both the Cadet and Junior Rolling Points Lists, and with aspirations to compete at the DV1 NCAA level, he should most certainly be fencing in DV1 events. I am not speaking to the logistics or expense of doing this, but to the extent to which you are doing both Cadet and Junior events, you are pretty much going to all of the NACs anyway and will have the ability to compete in the DV1 events when they are offered, i.e., Anaheim (CDT/DV1) and Virginia Beach (JR/DV1). Portland is the only one to which you would have to make a trip solely to compete in a DV1. Not saying you have to stretch to do all of them, but frankly, believe to compete at the NCAA level you are asking about, with a fencer at the level you describe, your fencer should be anxious to compete at the DV1 level.
Everyone on this thread has agonized over the missed school days, expense, and sheer wear and tear of the national tournaments. It’s part of the grind, especially for the most competitive and those who aspire to compete at the NCAA DV1 level, particularly at the most competitive programs. There are ways to anticipate and compensate for school absences. There are ways to reduce expenses. There are methods to reduce wear. Much is discussed on this thread. Feel free to continue to explore, PM senior members for more specificity, and just do the best you can.
Thank you so much BrooklynRye. I think it is more my parental concern/understanding of all the elements of junior year (e.g., several AP classes) than whether he wants to do the Div 1 events! Also in the mix (and I can’t believe I forgot to mention) is starting to do international competitions. It’s exciting and insane at the same time … I am still reading through this thread and as many others have said, really appreciate your (the experienced members) investment of time and wisdom. I hope to be able to pay it forward once we have gained experience!
@SpaceVoyager - You touch on a common theme, central to the motivation of this thread; paying it forward. None of us invented the process of navigating the often circuitous highways and byways of college recruitment. Most of us received guidance from those who came before us, myself very much included. It’s all good. We are here to help, all of us, and none should feel as if they are imposing.
Junior year of high school, with its rigorous course load, college applications, and standardized test, is generally considered the hardest year of high school. Considering a full schedule of national and international competition, on top of commitments to regular lessons and training, can be very daunting. Speaking from the perspective of a parent who has experienced this to the max (and still do!), a bit of “Type A” organization goes a long way. Please consider the following check list:
- Once your son's junior year schedule is finalized, have him send an email to all of his new teachers. He should introduce himself, explain a bit about his fencing, and provide them with a list of prospective absences. He should offer to do work in advance, be flexible on test makeup dates, and to generally work with his teachers to coordinate his fencing schedule with his academic schedule.
- Consider a study group for your son. Although this is not typical of high school, a study group in which each member is responsible for one subject will streamline studying and work. During trips to Europe, my son would often Skype with his group, with each reporting on their assigned subject. It was amazing how much he was able to get out of these conferences, and how much easier it was for him to keep up with school work.
- Be aware of the maximum allowed absences in your school district or at your child's private school. If you feel your son is likely to exceed this amount, get the process running to receive a waiver from your district or permission from the school. Your son's guidance counselor should be a great start for understanding and navigating this process.
- Book your international flights in advance. Not everyone has the luxury of absolute certainty of making the designated event team. If you do, take advantage and book early. I know there may be intermittent 'sales' as travel dates draw closer, but it very seldom turns out this way. Try the Hopper app as a useful tool to track prospective flights.
- Make travel schedules tight. My son is traveling to Anaheim in October, and to Portland in December, each solely to compete in the DV1 event. For both, he will fly in the day before and catch the red-eye back to the East Coast the night after each event. This saves him a valuable school day.
- Solely personal. If you are going to take extra days off from school, make it count at international events. We all tend to take for granted, flying to Europe for weekends. If you have the time and the inclination, take that extra day. During our first trip to Pisa for a designated event, we flew in a couple of days early. We spent a whole day touring Rome and a 2nd day touring the Vatican. Well worth it and we didn't feel as spoiled/cheated flying into Italy for a weekend.
- If you are aspiring to a world team, make yourself a spread sheet of all points events. This will help you literally see your son's progress and prospects, and may enable you to opt-out of some events to save money, missed school, and wear & tear on your son.
Am sure there is much to be added to this list. Looking forward to reading input from others!
1 Like
Sorry for the delay in weighing in, but with back-to-school and the eclipse…
@newfencingdad:
I am not sure colleges with club fencing-only programs have any ability to recruit fencers, however, dedication to an extracurricular activity, especially one that encourages the qualities fencing does, can be helpful in college admissions in general.
My DS2 was not a recruited athlete, but he was passionately involved in a club sport (one which there are no college varsity programs) and it was his primary extracurricular activity. While there were no college coaches to contact, no recognized ranking or rating systems, or any admissions metrics (like fencings JNPL) to achieve, our son wrote about his love of and dedication to this sport in his college essays and was fortunate that the qualities he gained from his involvement resulted in an unexpectedly great admissions outcome. While recruited athletics is a wonderful path to early certainty in college admissions, passion and dedicated interest in a worthwhile activity is also what many ACs want and are looking for.
It is worth noting that may club teams employ coaches that are not on the college/university payroll, so any admissions influence may be limited. The club coaches who also coach the woman’s varsity program (Cornell, Northwestern, Tufts) could have some influence.
@Spacevoyager:
I am going to offer a different perspective from my good friend @brooklynrye.
In my opinion, what matters most in the college recruiting process is your standing on the Junior National Points List (JNPL). While D1 experience (and cadet for that matter) is nice, if you participate to the detriment of your junior year grades, this may negatively affect your recruitability at academically-elite programs.
Similar thoughts with international competitions. In DS1’s junior year, he and his club coaches wanted him to travel to Europe to participate in WC events. As I have written in the past, when we corresponded with the Ivy coaches to ask if this would enhance his candidacy, they all replied if it would negatively affect his grades, he should not do it.
At the academically-elite schools, your junior year grades/scores really matter. College programs want to see evidence you can handle/balance high level training/competition AND a rigorous academic load before admitting a student. Unless you are winning the D1 or WC competitions, aspirants for the academically elite programs should try to be the best students they can be, and be in the top 32 on the JNPL before committing time/resources to anything else.
Of course, if you have post college fencing goals, D1 and WC competitions are important. I guess it all depends on your priorities.
In our experience, our son was sufficiently highly-ranked/rated to be considered by the majority of academically-elite programs, however it was his academic record that made the post SN recruiting process go so quickly and smoothly.
Junior year is hard, and there are few positive surprises. Balance requires sacrifice in all directions.
@BrooklynRye and @superdomestique : thanks again for your insights. We’ll probably have to make a tentative plan and then see how the year is going. We agree that school/academics come first but we’ll probably give him a chance to try managing the balance and adjust as needed. Will definitely follow the discussions and come back for more advice! And congrats to those who have made it through and are in or starting college!
Does anyone have feedback on Brandeis and their D3 team? We had a nice visit there and S is within range of academics for past admits from his HS based on Naviance.
@Momma2018: I’m sure both BrooklynRye and superdomestique can chime in on Brandeis…I have heard good things about long-time Head Coach Bill Shipman and know that assistant coach (epee) Arpad Horvath is a respected coach on the USA Fencing circuit (as well as a former cadet world and 2-time individual NCAA champion).
1 Like
@Momma2018 - My experience with Brandeis is that the school is very committed to its fencing program (see the still new facility they built). The coach and team are very together and competitive. Brandeis is also very much in the mix of competitive teams. Not that the school will ever win a national championship, but they are represented and host major events. In fact, I believe they are in the running to host the 2017-2018 Northeast Regionals.