@Momma2018 I would second what @BrooklynRye said. Coach Shipman and Brandeis both seem fully committed to having a quality fencing program.
My DD visited with Coach Shipman at JOs, and she visited campus last spring. She spent the night with a fencer and ended up hanging out with almost the entire team that evening. She felt the team was very cohesive and they welcomed her to campus with open arms. I found Coach Shipman to be honest and straight-forward in conversations with DD - he made it clear where she would fit on the team and what he would expect from her. Though my DD ultimately chose Lawrence instead of Brandeis, it was not an easy choice and her decision was based more upon the feel of the schools overall than with the teams or coaches.
When I made the rounds with my son, the Ivies, particularly Penn and Princeton, were extremely clear that the schools would NOT super score the ACT. This is a particular bummer as anecdotal evidence indicates the large majority of fencers take the ACT over the SAT. Something to do with the ADHD component in fencing, I am often told. However, in addition to being an interesting read, highlight trend #3.
That’s really interesting that more fencers take the ACT, and that it may be related to a higher proportion of ADD among fencers. My son is ADD (and dyslexic) and did much better on the ACT than the SAT. I’m not sure when it changed, but Penn does superstore both the SAT and ACT now. I was surprised to discover that OSU and PSU still won’t superscore either test, while Notre Dame, Duke, Penn, Brown, and JHU do (and maybe others, those are just the ones I looked at). I’m very happy to see that so many schools no longer require the essay portion of the tests, which makes the process a bit less stressful for dyslexics and kids with ADD.
@BrooklynRye: Thanks for sharing. I want to comment on a point made in the Trend 3 section of that article. The second paragraph ends with “Penn, along with Stanford, Harvard, and many other elite colleges no longer require Subject Tests as part of the evaluation. Instead they ‘recommend’ that students take Subject Tests, but will not hold it against them if they choose to withhold them.”
At an info session at a very selective school which also recently did away with the Subject Test requirement, an AO commented that “While the website says Subject Tests are optional, you should take them.” The only interpretation I can take away form that is that a lack of Subject Test results WOULD be held against the applicant. TBH, this bothered the heck out of me. They are either optional or not optional…and the school is doing themselves a disservice by not being consistent in their messaging.
@SevenDad - I feel your pain when it comes to some of these grey areas, particularly when the schools play it a bit loose. However, the subject tests have always been very low on the list of admissions criteria. For recruiting purposes, the subject tests only significance is to the extent to which these tests are part of any calculus for minimum scores for the team. During recruitment, we were told that for Ivies if the subject test scores were not 750+, not to bother submitting them. We were also told that taking the ACT Writing component acted as a waiver of the Subject Tests. My advice is that if there is any possibility that omitting them can hurt you, take the tests and submit your best 2 or 3, as the case may be.
@SevenDad - I feel your pain when it comes to some of these grey areas, particularly when the schools play it a bit loose. However, the subject tests have always been very low on the list of admissions criteria. For recruiting purposes, the subject tests only significance is to the extent to which these tests are part of any calculus for minimum scores for the team. During recruitment, we were told that for Ivies if the subject test scores were not 750+, not to bother submitting them. We were also told that taking the ACT Writing component acted as a waiver of the Subject Tests. My advice is that if there is any possibility that omitting them can hurt you, take the tests and submit your best 2 or 3, as the case may be.
As an Ivy recruit, I don’t think it means anything, but check their requirements. Remember that if you are not being recruited, you are bound by application requirements for all mainstream applicants.
As a recruit at a non-Ivy, depends on the school. Check your schools!
As a non-recruit, I think you are bound by the school’s normal requirements. Most require 2, although I believe some (Georgetown?) require 3 of these. Give them your 2-3 best. Certainly 700+ is great score to submit on these.
Hi all, I have a rather urgent question to ask about contacting coaches. Over the summer I contacted a couple of coaches at schools I’m interested in fencing for. Of the 4 coaches I reached out to, 3 responded saying they would send my application to admissions for a pre-read. When summer was over, I had only heard back from 2 of coaches…And the one coach I didn’t get a follow up with about my pre-read was my first choice school.
I sent a follow up email to her in August about my change in rating (From D to C). In that email, I also asked if she had heard back from admissions yet. Still no response from her. I know she’s been reading my emails because I had been using an email tracker.
I was wondering if it was a good idea to just call the coach at this point. I’ve been trying to put off this call because I’m too nervous to know what she has to say. I don’t know how common it is for a coach to not follow up with a fencer after saying they would do a pre-read. And with a month and a half left before ED deadlines, I feel like it might be time to change my college plans and apply to my second choice school, whose coach was very enthusiastic about having me on the time.
Any suggestions would be nice and thank you to everyone on this thread for the help!
@arwarw thanks for the podcast link. It was a good listen.
NU has 28 women’s fencers on their '17-'18 roster, and is capped (by the NCAA) at only giving out 5 full scholarships (or partials that add up to 5 fulls) - a good reminder to recruits to fence in college because you enjoy it and want to continue fencing, not because you are hoping for a free education.
DD will get to see some of those (very talented) NU fencers at Remenyik as most of the Lawrence team will be traveling down to compete.
@thatonegirl131 - As you point out, it is very late in he recruiting game for the class of 2022. As the dominoes fall and programs fill their quota for each gender/weapon, they unfortunately my simply not take the time to respond to fencers in whom they are no longer interested. By all means call the coach at your top choice. You have nothing to lose at this point. But don’t expect a response or more than a cursory one at best.
I continue to reiterate my favorite analogy for this process – Musical Chairs. The music is still going, but there a lot of players already seated. Don’t get left without a chair!
The NU podcast is very informative. I think they lay out the recruitment path and rules in as straightforward a manner as reasonably possible considering the plethora of opaque NCAA rules. The crux of this decision making process, however, lies in the balancing of academic and fencing opportunities. Fencing can afford a tremendous entry into the very best schools in the country, but the “best” school is not always the best fit, and the “best” fencing program is not always at the best school for the particular fencer. For top recruits, those who for the most part will continue with high-level national and international competition, it is important to heed well the priority placed on “team” in NCAA sports. While colleges and teams welcome fencers of the highest caliber, the challenges inherent in such a relationship, balancing the fencers outside aspirations with his/her commitment to the school’s fencing program, can be pretty overwhelming. So avail yourself of the recruiting gifts that come from fencing, but choose wisely.
I’m curious if any American universities ever assist fencers with travel and expenses for non NCAA events, such as NACs or FIE events? Would/could a university help a prospective Olympian, financially, in his or her quest to qualify?
I think many of the US college programs help fund non-NCAA competition, but for whom and how much is specific to the individual and the school…
To the degree a fencer wants to pursue non-NCAA fencing during/beyond college (NACs, WCs, Olympics), these are negotiations that need to take place pre-commitment, pre-LL/NLI.
For some, this attractiveness of the non-NCAA travel/expense package can make the difference in which program is ultimately chosen/committed to.
That being said, committing to a heavy non-NCAA fencing schedule in addition to the rigors of an academically-elite university can make college life very narrow. Be careful what you wish for. Getting the best deal, and having the time to enjoy a full and fulfilling college experience aren’t always the same thing.
On a separate matter, as we are one week away from the issuance of the 1st wave of LLs, best of luck to all the HS seniors (and their parents) who have been following this thread. The finish line is near.
To the degree possible, please share your experiences (both good and bad) to keep the level of institutional knowledge of this thread current.
With Superdomestique’s cautionary message in mind, yes indeed, there are NCAA programs that financially support non-NCAA fencing. In particular, most top programs provide at least some monetary allowance for NACs. More substantial travel expenses, e.g., for international designated competitions, depend on the school and on the fencer. In any case, this is certainly fair game in an interview with a coach at a prospective school, and you should ask.
Wanted to circle back on a topic that came up earlier in the thread, namely: When to register with the NCAA Eligibility Center (Formerly called “The Clearinghouse”).
Based on some recent notifications on my HS Senior daughter’s NCAA Eligibility Center dashboard, I am guessing that any athlete taking a Div1 OV — meaning a campus visit (typically involving an overnight stay) that is registered with the NCAA and counted towards the limit of 5 allowed — should be registered with the Eligibility Center.
So my advice for any fencers considering OVs to Div1 schools (including Ivies) would be to register after Junior Year official transcripts are available, as that is a required document…within the first few weeks of your Senior Year at the latest, because it does take some time for things to process through the system and you’ll need your college counseling office to send in your transcripts.
