The Only College Fencing Recruiting Thread You Need to Read

As previously discussed in this thread (thank you @SevenDad, @sherpa, and @superdomestique!), I come to these questions from the perspective of representing a very high recruit. In those cases, the schools are generally very aggressive in recruiting, talk to the fencer has early as possible, and extend commitments (in varying forms) as early as possible. Leaving aside a full-blown discussion of the nuances of NCAA recruiting rules, truly top-top recruits can receive offers/commitments from top programs, including from DV1 programs, as early as prior to the start of their junior year in high school(!). For the record, I admit to being totally shocked by this.

There are varying reasons, other than retreat from the sport, that fencers absent themselves from tournaments. I do not think that college coaches concern themselves with such absences. As has been posted above, the coaches are very good at scouting potential recruits and do so far further back in each fencer’s career than one might imagine. We met with several coaches who talked about first seeing our child in Y12 competitions! One father related to me how surprised he was to find that coaches with whom they met had been following his child at competition for years. He never saw anyone! That said, recognizing that the large majority are not “top” recruits, students who want to fence in college should try to get to as many of these national events as possible during their junior and into their senior year. As @sherpa points out, this is your best forum. As the recruiting year winds down and fencers commit, coaches are moving down the depth chart to fill slots. I believe that @superdomestique can attest to being in the right place at the right time. A key performance at the right moment can suddenly put a fencer in the running for a major school.

Several coaches told me that when scouting potential recruits they look not for where the fencer is, but for where they think they can take him/her as part of an NCAA team. Of course, with NCAA competition for the most part dominated by 5-touch bouts, coaches are often focusing on a skill set not prioritized quite as much in USAF competition. We are all familiar with the fencer who is just lights-out when it comes to pools but who falters in DEs. Equally the fencer who always drops 1 or 2 pool bouts but somehow always manages to stand on the medal podium at the end. Sometimes it’s the former who is more valuable to a college program.

There is also a unique chemistry to most NCAA fencing teams. Coaches are not only looking for quality fencers, they are looking for people who add to the team dynamic, not for primadonnas. A fencers national and international results are nice, and schools will not hesitate to use them in PR for the school and team, but they further the ball for the team hardly at all toward NCAA success.

While NCAA rules regarding recruitment, in particular talking with coaches, can be very confusing, coaches will generally speak with fencers and parents during unofficial, on-campus visits (just watch out for ‘blackout’ periods!) during junior year of HS. Email can also be a useful tool, particularly for initial introductions and submission of academic records and a basic fencing resume’. We found campus visits to be by far the most effective. The school itself often gets lost in the pursuit of an athletic recruiting slot. Being on the campus really brought the school into sharp focus for our child and really forced the school’s inclusion into the calculus of going there.

As my good friend @superdomestique is fond of pointing out, academics are critical. Schools often take the ‘lesser’ fencer (at least statistically) in favor of a stellar academic candidate.

In summary, 1+1 is at least usually equal to 2. Start with your fencer’s position on the junior rolling points list. The coaches certainly start there. If you are at the top, the recruiting world is probably your oyster. If you are in the middle, you may have to wait your turn until the dust settles on some of the top ones. For this group, I strongly recommend focusing on your top choices. As recently as this year a top program opted for a bird in the hand, committing to a fencer slightly lower down the points list rather than weather the uncertainty of someone at the top who was not ready to make a commitment. Finally, for those on the bottom or not on points lists at all, do your research, put your fencer out there and talk it up with coaches. There are dynamic D3 and club programs that may just be the perfect fit are out there. Good luck all!

Wow, thank you all for all your awesome feedbacks.

One more thing that I would like to elaborate on my question, which I think several of the above responses have already addressed. If the fencer is at or near the top of the junior list in his grade, and has already received positive feedback from several of the top school coaches, how much would it hurt the fencer’s chance of recruitment by having poor performances in subsequent tournaments. Especially since it is a rolling point system, the point achieved in the previous year would be lost if not replaced by an equal achievement in the corresponding event. So the once top 20 on the list fencer, now becomes top 35, or worse yet much lower. In this scenario, would the coaches become “uninterested” in this fencer?

@Quiksword - If the coaches are engaged, it is past the point of interest solely based on points standing. Every fencer is subject to movement, sometimes even substantial, up and down the points list. Just keep grades up and continue to perform to the best of your ability.

Hi, I know it might be a bit on the late side for a Class of 2018 recruit, but I was wondering if anyone would be willing to analyze my prospects of getting into a school. So my goal is to get into a Division I college along the lines of (HYP). However, it looks a bit rocky for me because of life and all of the shenanigans that junior year brings upon the student.

So my academics are unweighted GPA 3.8 given a hard course-load with 1 AP under my belt and 3 more in the process, an AP score of 5 on the one that I took (Biology). ACT Composite 35, SAT Subject Math II 800, SAT Subject Biology E 800, and few other academic achievements (National French Teacher’s Award or something). My (internet-calculated) AI was 231.

Fencingwise I don’t want to reveal who I am, so I’ll skew the numbers. I am ranked within the top 3-ish in the cadet points list of my weapon and gender, as well as being in the top 8-ish (there is a slight discrepancy between Team and Rolling) in juniors. My Division I ranking is in the top 75 for rolling and top 40 for team.

My coach and I looked at my 5-touch bout performance this year, and across 2 cadet, junior, and div 1 events, I went 34-1.

I spoke with one of the coaches of the schools that I was interested in back at Summer Nationals, when my Junior rank was in the 50s, and he told me to reach out to him once I had reached the top 15 realm. I plan on doing so, now that I met the threshold he set for me.

I’m not sure if at this point it’s redundant in asking anyone to look at my chances, but it would be greatly appreciated if someone could point me in a direction as I am still rather lost in the process.

@hUp

I think you are right where you want to be.

Hopefully, you will be at JOs and your trajectory continues.

I would write all the coaches of the programs you are interested in with your one page resume, and the events you expect to be at between JOs and SN. Update the coaches regularly with new results and academic milestones.

You may want to check out the current rosters of the schools you are interested in to see what their class of 2022 needs are.

Good luck. Read #4 of this thread if you have any doubts.

Are there any “quiet/dead periods” in the fencing recruiting calendar?

@SevenDad For Div 1, the dead periods are:

  • November 7-10, 2016 (Monday through Thursday of the initial week for the fall signing of the National Letter of Intent).
  • April 10-13, 2017 (Monday through Thursday of the initial week for the spring signing of the National Letter of Intent).

With the following exception specifically for fencing:
North American Cup Fencing Championship: When the dead period for recruiting occurs during the North American Cup Fencing Championship, it shall be permissible for authorized coaching staff members to observe prospective student-athletes participating in that event.

http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/June2016_DIOtherSportsDeadandQuietPeriods_20160613.pdf

Yes, there are. The NCAA refers to them as “Dead Periods”. In 2016-2017, dead period was in early-mid November (during signing of the Letter of Intent period), and again in mid-April 2017 for the spring NLoL signing. There are exceptions both during the Dead Period as well as around it. Check this out – http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/June2016_DIOtherSportsDeadandQuietPeriods_20160613.pdf

Thanks to you both…don’t know how I didn’t come across that in my admittedly google search for it.

I believe the question I’ll ask may have been briefly touched upon before. At this point in the junior year, if an elite fencer has been receiving positive feedbacks from most of the elite college coaches, when would be the right time to ask for a “nonbinding” commitment. Once the college board test results are available, which will be taken in the next two months, if within the acceptable range, if the coaches are asking for a commitment, is it appropriate to give a verbal “commitment” to several colleges, especially since nothing is a done deal until that acceptance letter from the admission’s office. How have the other elite fencers who’s gone through this handled this?

Quiksword, I think I speak for most of my peers on this site when I write, regardless of the non-binding nature of verbal commitments, it is not cool to make such to more than one school. Leaving aside the inherently unethical nature of this practice, these coaches talk to each other. It may very easily come out that you are playing a double or triple game and you will lose all faith and credit, not to mention any commitments you may then have in hand. My advice, as I did with my son, is to play it straight. Pick your top choice. If you are fortunate enough to receive an offer to exchange verbal commitments, do so and be glad of it.

@BrooklynRye thank you for your comment. I totally agree with you that making multiple commitments ethically is not right, and just not the “nice” thing to do. We’re not at that stage of exchanging verbal commitments yet, especially since the “academic record” is not solidified yet. I was wondering how the other past elite fencers have dealt with giving their commitments, especially prior to July. I presume the coaches would realize that the particular fencer most likely will be getting offers from competing colleges. Are the coaches willing to wait for the fencer to make their round of meeting with coaches and visiting campuses? What kind of situation, based on previous posts, where the student has received several Likely letters in their senior year, does that mean these students have 'committed" to several schools?

I echo @brooklynrye’s comment and feel being honest and straightforward during the college recruiting process is the best approach.

We have witnessed more than one situation where a fencer has made non-binding commitments to more than one program and it has burned bridges, not necessarily for the fencer, but in the future for younger siblings, and/for the fencing club (both coach and younger fencers) down the road. Making multiple “commitments” is a very selfish, dishonest, and short-sighted thing to do.

While a fencer may receive multiple LL “offers”, it is proper only to ACCEPT one LL offer.

To answer @quiksword’s question, college coaches, like fencing families, have a pecking order of who they want and it is always useful to know exactly where you stand. Asking a coach directly where you are on his/her list is a completely acceptable practice, especially if your fencer is highly sought after.

That being said, you should also know which programs appeal to you the most and share with the top choice (only) that you would accept a commitment if offered. It is worth noting that there are some programs that will assume they are your first choice…

In our experience, while our son ultimately received 5 LL offers, there were no commitment discussions before July 1st. The majority of these offers were received in July after SN and all the schools wanted to know as soon as possible.

Because our son had spent his junior year spring break on a school trip, we had not visited any of the colleges that had expressed interest in him. We scheduled unofficial visits in late July. After these visits, two of the programs put a deadline of their LL offers because they wanted to pursue another fencer if our son would not commit by mid-August. These “exploding offers” were stressful, but allowed us to let our first choice school earlier.

As I have written in previous posts, in our recruitment year there were situations where both fencers and coaches had made “commitments” before SN, that ultimately did not come to fruition.

Be careful and good luck.

@quiksword, if you look back on this thread (I know it’s extensive), there is some discussion about how early fencers and schools commit. NCAA rules aside (and I am not saying that any are being transgressed), the truly “elite” fencers in terms of points and accomplishments very often commit far earlier. I am personally aware of top fencers who committed before they even started their junior year in high school. Yes, this is non-binding, but my sense is that in most cases where there is a meeting of the minds the deal reaches fruition. If your child is at this level and you wish to discuss this more openly, please feel free to PM me.

New Question for the panel. My son is currently an 8th grader. He does very well ins school, does well and is improving in fencing, and has big aspirations. Other than crossing my fingers and parenting the best I can do you have any advice or nuances I should keep in mind for the next couple years?

@Feppe44 - For as many fencing parents and fencers as there are out there, you may certainly get advice. My son started fencing when he was 9-years old. At his first lesson his then-coach (somewhat dramatically) told him, “Before I put this foil in your hand, I need to tell you something.” He went on to say, “When it all becomes about the winning and losing, learning goes out the window.” These are the words my son has tried (and sometimes failed) to live by throughout his fencing career. I can think of no better advice than to support your son in his enjoyment and learning (and yes, his success) in this sport. Good luck to you!

@Feppe44 Keep it fun. I have two kids in two different clubs. In both clubs the friendships and social scene seems to sustain the kids through the many years and long hours of practice.

@Feppe44: As the parent of a current HS Junior, the first thing I’ll say is that there is an awful lot of time between 8th grade and Senior year (even Junior year for that matter!) of HS. Anything can happen. Who knows, your kid might get injured or burn out (I’ve seen both happen to very promising contemporaries of my daughter) in that time frame. Or they might take up another sport or extracurricular that eclipses fencing.

One bit of advice — that I give to ALL fencing parents, new and old — is not to make it all about getting into a “good” college/getting recruited. Obviously, for some kids that is one goal, but it can’t/shouldn’t be the only or maybe even the most important one. Because lets say you/your kid do make it the most important thing and the kid — for whatever reasons — falls short…does not get into college of his dreams/recruited by program of his dreams. Does that make the past 4 years a waste of time/effort/money? I’d hate to think so.

Another word (beside reading this thread from start to finish) of advice is to be VERY realistic about where your kid stands in relation to the others in his/her graduating class. I think that will help both of you in selecting programs/colleges to explore that are the best fit

A final thing (for now) is to try and be as friendly as possible with other fencing parents and kids — no matter how big the rivalry between the fencers is when they are on the strip. We all want our kids to win, of course, but the friendships we’ve built over our years in the sport are arguably more important than any medal. What’s more, you never know when you’ll need a friend strip side down the road…like if your kid’s last weapon breaks and he needs one to finish out a bout. Or maybe you’ll be at your first international Cadet event and have no idea how anything works in terms of armory and registration…but another parent might.

@Feppe44 Ditto to the above posts. Fencing definitely has to remain fun, especially for a young kid to go through grueling repetitive training. Having good fencing friends from within the club, as well as from other clubs they’ll meet during NACs certainly will get them very motivated, as well as to maintain a healthy competitive spirit. However, since your son is now in the second half of 8th grade, which I assume means he’s about 13yrs old, if his aim is to eventually fence for an elite Div 1 schools, in 9th grade he may need to rev up his fencing efforts as well as to work on time management with his studies. Fortunately for most ardent fencers, time management when it comes to studies seems to be handled very well.

Hi,

Newbie posting here, with younger kids who are also very good students and very enthusiastic fencers at a high-quality club. After watching older kids at my club, I’ve decided I do not want either of my kids to aim to be recruited by a top college. The pace of travel/training is tough, and the stress level on high schoolers is very high. I’ve seen top fencers who look beyond worn out. Then there’s the stress on parents who might sink years of expectations, and lots (and lots) of money, into this endeavor.

Another reality: Some kids shoot to the top unexpectedly that critical junior year; but that means others also unexpectedly falter.

I’ve come to love the sport for both my kids - the discipline, the conditioning, the mental training are awesome. Love our coaches and many teammates. I also love the fact that if they really enjoy fencing they may be able to continue doing it in college and beyond. And in the unlikely event my kids happen to be at the top of the leaderboard at the right moment - and there’s some school that’s otherwise a perfect fit that’s interested - sure, why not. But it’s not at all what we’re in this sport for. If anything I’d urge my kids not to put all their eggs in this basket.