The persecution of ROCKSTAR

College Confidential Community
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<p>Well, a few weeks ago Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas was stripped from the shelves of the majority of retailers nation wide due to a federal investigation into the encoded material that was originally hidden in the game and has now been able to be accessed with the creation of the "hot coffee" mod. The material is sexually explicit but only available if you modify the game(it is not available without modifying the game).</p>

<p>GTA: SA is one of my favorite video games ever, it is absolutely brilliant! And to be censored from the public is an outrage to me. The problem is that pompous humans in our society feel they have to find a scapegoat for the problems that SOCIETY creates, instead of dealing with the real problems they divert attention away from them and falsely label certain forms of entertainment "bad". How is gta: sa worse than 99% of what is on television? You have to be 17 to even buy the game!!! Any 10 year old can watch whatever violent movie or show on tv at will. This kind of censorship was an integral part of most communist societies, why is it taking place in America?</p>

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<p>To play Devil's Advocate, there is a difference between GTA and violent movies. With GTA you are controlling the violence. In a sense, the character in the game is an extension of yourself into the virtual world. With a movie, you are merely a pedestrian to the violence. However, I do not have any studies to back this information up.</p>

<p>Also, I heard that the explicit content in question is in the game; however, you need a mod to unlock it. From my understanding, ROCKSTAR could be in hot water if they failed to disclose this content to the ratings board (as is stipulated in the agreement between the publisher and ratings board, I think). I would support civil action against ROCKSTAR if the above is true.</p>

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<p><em>shrug</em>
It always had a 18 rating here... Hot Coffee or no Hot Coffee.</p>

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<p>what is more violent, pushing buttons on a controller, or when playing football physically tackling someone???</p>

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<p>The violence in GTA is much worse than anything in football (I would hope). Football involves consenting individuals pushing each other around. In GTA, heads can be blown off (through the pushing of a button).</p>

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<p>Here's what I wrote to Jack Thompson following the incident:</p>

<p>"The most perfidious way of harming a cause consists of defending it
deliberately with faulty arguments "--Friedrich Nietzsche</p>

<p>As much as I feel that the legislation of gaming is a cause fueled by
ignorance and misunderstanding, I can't help but laugh as you harm
your own cause with flat out lies such as gamers having the ability to
rape and kill pregnant women in Grand Theft Auto, or the ability to
view full frontal nudity in the Sims 2.</p>

<p>Your crusade against the videogame industry is laughable, and your
"points" (I use the term loosely) are tenuous at best. Your example of
the Sims 2 was especially laughable. A pedophile is going to be a
pedophile whether he plays the Sims 2 or not. And if he really enjoys
looking at naked children, he's going to look at naked children. As
obvious as that may sound, I felt as if it needed to be clarified to
someone such as you. There's this little thing called the internet
where pedophiles can look at as much child pornography as they want.
You can't argue that they would rather look at Barbie doll non nudity
in a game that costs $50 dollars than look at actual child porn.
That's like arguing that a heterosexual male would rather pay $50 to
see adult female non nudity in the Sims rather than look at actual
porn on the internet.</p>

<p>There's precedent for your misguided sentiments failing. In 2002, a
mother blamed EA and Maxis for her son being homosexual. She argued
that him creating gay Sims and getting excited when they interacted
sexually proved that the videogame turned him gay. Want to guess how
far her libelous claims got her? Nowhere.</p>

<p>I'd request that you debate my points with sincerity, but seeing the
thoughtless ad hominem attacks you've used in response to other gamers
poking holes in your logic (or lack thereof), I won't be holding my
breath.</p>

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<p>Exactly.</p>

<p>Besides... the "secret" in GTA:SA is nothing worse than what's in the rest of the game. I don't know why it's being blown up so big. If you don't want to see it, don't download that mod. Simple. If certain parents or people think that playing games is so bad for their kids, then they shouldn't let them play. Instead of taking responsibility that their kid is violent because of bad parenting, they like to conveniently shift blame to games and media.</p>

<p>Nobody's forcing their kids to play games or become violent. It's the parents who should be raising their kids, not video games.</p>

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<p>Welcome to the world of where the single adult male cannot enjoy anything. This is one of my biggest pet peeves about this country. Noone had any problem with SA or Halo 2 when there was awesomely horrible violence or cussing BUT GOD FORBID THERE IS NUDITY. Oh my God are children are going to go straight to hell if they see a cartoon nipple, but killing a bus full of nuns with a rocket launcher is alright for my 10 year old. If you do not like these games, (for the one trillionth f**king time) DO NOT BUY THEM!!! Why should my enjoyment of video games be edited because some fat soccer mom in DeKalb doesn't want her doughy eight year old who is hopped up on sugar playing them? You wouldn't let your brat into a strip club or let him taste Johnnie Walker Blue, so why would you care what the hell is in video games that are not designed for him. If I want to impale three boobed strippers or drowned barely alive skinned kittens in acid in a video game, it should be my God given right. Many people take out their agressions via the video game. I would never steal a car, shoot a cop, or pickup a filthy hooker in real life; but I can in GTA and not have those urges. This country is so damn backwards when it comes to sex and violence it is not funny. I got a little off track here but I think you see my point that America totally dogs the single male when it comes to laws. Not everyone has a family or should be forced to practice family values in everything they do.</p>

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<p>"The violence in GTA is much worse than anything in football (I would hope). Football involves consenting individuals pushing each other around. In GTA, heads can be blown off (through the pushing of a button)."</p>

<p>Really, so pushing a button that causes ANIMATION ON A SCREEN is worse than brutally tackling someone on a football field???</p>

<p>WHO IS HURT IN THE VIDEO GAME HUH THE CHARACTER ON THE SCREEN. IN FOOTBALL PEOPLE EXPERIENCE SEVERE INJURIES CONSTANTLY, AND IT IS ACCEPTABLE(because its just "part of the sport). GOSH PEOPLE LIKE YOU ARE DENSE...!!!...!!!</p>

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<p>Well, the problem with SA is that theoretically, if the game were to slide by, developers could include <em>anything</em> in their games, simply unlockable by a mod that "violates the user agreement" or some nonsense, thereby making the entire rating system obsolete. That is the argument I would use, anyways. Also, this is not necessarilly such a bad thing, because maybe it will lead to popularization of 18+ games, removing the limits on the creativity of game designers and modders alike.</p>

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<p>Problem is most retailers have policies against A-rated games.</p>

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<p>I don’t see the difference between M(+17) and A(+18):(</p>

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<p>The change in ratings will mean a smaller audience which means less profit.</p>

<p>I think it can be hard to argue that Rockstar should be sued because of hidden game data that can only be accessed through a mod. Someone viewing the nudity would only be doing so if they took the time to download the mod, on their own accord, in the first place. </p>

<p>Not only that, but using mods on such games void a lot of things legally. It's like asking for a refund on your ipod because it didn't happen to withstand the weight of your car as you drove over it. I'm sure that the legal terms binding the game apply when it is played standalone, or "as is", without any sort of external programs, mods, etc. The only reason against this is that the questionable material is already existent on the game. It's not like a mod some kid made to turn every sprite naked -- the material's already there, but inaccessable if the game is played "as is." </p>

<p>Now, by buying this game, you are indeed buying that porn. Just because you can't access it "as is" doesn't mean it's not there. It's like buying a house that someone was murdered in, but not knowing about the murder because the bloodstains were painted over. Sure, the house may function fine in this state of ignorance, but the fact remains: the blood is still there. The question now: Does it harm anyone? Does it only cause harm to those that seek it? Should the buyer be informed?</p>

<p>The only way I can see this affecting those who play the game "as is" is that the porn takes up memory that could have been spent on better in-game features. But then again, a lack of memory is no reason to harshen a game rating: "Rating: NMM: No More Memory aka We Ran Out of Fscking Room Blowing it All on Pron". Even so, I would bet the amount of memory needed for the porn was negligable.</p>

<p>This whole case, to me, sounds like you could sue drug companies because the drugs do bad things to you when you introduce alcohol into your system despite the fact that there are warnings advising against this. Much like the game's creators, who wish for the game to be played "as is" without external influences that can unlock potential functionalities not intended to be a part of the final product.</p>

<p>However, this information must be disclosed. Meaning, the customer should know what they are buying -- porn included. If there is porn included, then the rating should be harshened. If the game creators don't want such a harsh rating, they should not include material that will warrant one -- especially if it will decrease their profits to such a great extent just so that a few mod-happy fellows get to enjoy some pixel-porn. It was a foolish move on Rockstar's part, but hopefully this will set an example for future product-developers considering utilization of similar loopholes. One of the main issues here is allowing underage people access to just about anything (regardless of the legal bindings) a developer stuffs in a game by use of external programs. Videogamerx2's post above hits this point right on the head.</p>

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<p>"I don’t see the difference between M(+17) and A(+18)"</p>

<p>Obviously, upon turning 18, an ex-17 year old instantly becomes far more mature, wiser, responsible, and able to handle so called "mature" content. This is a well known, scientifically grounded fact. All it takes is common sense to know this.</p>

<p>Er, actually, I don't know...</p>

<p>And I agree with legendofmax, with all the stuff he said.</p>

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<p>Anyone else have any thoughts on this?</p>

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<p>I don't really have an opinion on any of this, but the difference between "M" & "A" is the same as the difference between "R" & "NC-17" in movies. Few mainstream theatres show NC-17, not to mention that fewer people want to see movies rated NC-17. That one-year age difference in the ratings can have a major effect on a movie's profits.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
not to mention that fewer people want to see movies rated NC-17

[/quote]
speak for yourself, I wish all movies in the theater were NC-17 so they wouldn't clog up theaters with 'G' Rated crap, and only adult would be allowed in. Plus boobs in every scene. :)</p>

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<p>I believe that it was "dry humping" minigame hidden, but there wasn't any nudity in the scene. Also, kids shouldn't playing anyway if it's rated M.</p>

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<p>Its the parents own fault for buying their child this game. If the retailers enforced the rules and said you gotta be 17+ to purchase thats to bad. It is not the fault of Rockstar for what you do with their product. I believe some kids in Alabama got the idea to start carjacking people and one of them was shot by their intended victim. The parents of the kids tried to sue and lost. The way I see it the man was a little drop of chlorine in the gene pool and that is not always a bad thing. Parents are just not taking responsibility for their children anymore and that is the problem.</p>

<p>Football is not meant to be violent. It is a sport where the players try to tackle one another and prevent points from being scored. It is not violent but looks violent, where as GTA is intended to be violent. Where as football is competitive with other players GTA encourages people to kill animated images. I would rather my kid plays football the GTA.</p>

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<p>All this federal legal nonsense is really getting out of hand. Companies sheepishly hiding porn in their video games, people going bananas and suing left and right, the government pulling those games off the shelves...I tell ya, it's all one big comical masquerade. Seriously, people need to pull their head out of their ass. A little pixelated nudity isn't going to kill you, and a little honesty from companies once in a while wouldn't hurt.</p>