<p>If you really think that the information in the quote you provided meets your “burden” of showing that private schools are more effective as instruments of social change than public schools, you are correct that there is no value in continuing this conversation as your position is untenable. Put simply, variances in graduation rates simply do not warrant the broad conclusion you have drawn. If you can’t come up with some facts that do justify your conclusion, then perhaps you should reconsider your statement or simply acknowledge that it was an expression of an opinon rather than, as expressed, a statement fact.</p>
<p>It’s going to be a bumpy ride for grads everywhere. I just hope being in the top echelon will spare me from making latte for living and eating bean from a can for dinner.</p>
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<p>tyr - I told you, I’m not going to play “Rock, Paper, Scissor” with you. If you don’t think widely divergent graduation rates are relevant, you have to explain why. That’s how a conversation works.</p>
<p>Perhaps it would first be useful for you to explain the rational behind your assertion. I pointed out above what I believe to be a fallacy in your reasoning. I believe it is up to you to explain to me why I am wrong, particularly as you have yet to draw a logical connection between the data and the conclusion. </p>
<p>Actually, if you actually took the time to look, you would find that there are a significant number of public schools that have graduation rates approximating those of a lot of highly rated private schools, and in some cases exceeding them. I think you would also find that there are a lot of private schools that have graduation and retention rates that a nothing to brag about. You simply cannot equate all private schools with those at the top of the heap and all public schools with community colleges as it appears you would like to do. It is not that simple. </p>
<p>For example, since you seem to be a proponent of Wesleyan, perhaps you could explain in what way Wesleyan has been more successful (if you believe it has) in preparing students to effect social change than say, for instance, the University of Virginia. As a matter of interest (and to save you the effort of looking), I would note that their respective 6 yr graduation rates are substantially the same.</p>
<p>Both public and private schools span a rather broad range of graduation rates. It appears to me (without actually computing averages from broader samples) that private schools do tend to have somewhat higher rates, but not consistently higher enough to say that a private model (vs. simply a more selective school) seems to better support school success or social mobility.</p>
<p>Public
UVA … 93%
WmMary … 91%
UCLA … 90%
Michigan …88%
Berkeley … 88%
USC … 85%
UNC … 83%
Maryland … 80%
Wisconsin …79%
Viginia Tech … 78%
Texas … 78%
Washington … 75%
USD … 74%
Colorado … 67%
Co. Mines … 67%
Oregon … 65%
Utah … 56%
Kent State … 51%
USF … 49%
UNLV …41%
Cleveland State … 31%
Idaho State … 20%</p>
<p>Private
Harvard … 97%
Yale … 96%
Amherst … 96%
Brown … 95%
Pomona … 94%
Swarthmore … 94%
Columbia … 93%
Cornell … 92%
Wesleyan … 92%
Vanderbilt … 91%
Hopkins … 90%
Rice … 90%
Chicago … 90%
Emory … 88%
NYU … 84%
Colorado Col… 83%
CaseWestern … 81%
Rochester … 81%
GWU … 78%
Spelman … 78%
Clark … 76%
Tulane … 76%
Reed … 75%
Earlham … 75%
American … 73%
Centre … 73%
Rhodes … 73%
St.John’s … 71%
Hampshire … 71%
Howard … 69%
New School … 62%
Marlboro … 59%
Guilford … 58%
EmoryHenry … 54%
Oral Roberts … 52%
Warren Wilson … 45%</p>
<p>Source: Washington Monthly 2009 Rankings (which does not seem to specify a time interval for the “graduation rate” )</p>
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There are two crucial flaws to this argument:</p>
<p>1) Not all LACs are equal and not all public research U’s are equal. tk21769 has done an excellent job of demonstrating this. </p>
<p>2) Disadvantaged students with limited resources or troubled home lives are more likely to drop out. This is an unavoidable fact - if there is no reliable source of income in a family, a college-attending member may have no choice but to drop out for work. Those without ample income sources are more likely to work part-time jobs and commute, both factors that can contribute to high drop-out rates. These students disproportionately attend low-ranked public universities and community colleges, hence the low graduation rates at those institutions.</p>
<p>I don’t see how your point is relevant to this thread at all. You seem to have some sort of idealistic dream in which everyone aims to become a Supreme Court justice, but I see that as just plain misguided. Most of the people you are referring to would consider themselves blessed to “[learn] enough to get a job in order to raise a family”.</p>
<p>@topic: This is obviously a subjective decision that will depend on the needs of each individual.</p>
<p>^^^For once I agree with someone’s CC screenname.</p>
<p>"Sometimes it is just better to remain silent…‘’</p>
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<p>Wesleyan has nearly twice the the percentage of Pell grant recipients that UVA does:
[Our</a> Third Annual College Rankings](<a href=“http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2007/0709.rankings.html]Our”>http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2007/0709.rankings.html)</p>
<p>So, now your measure of “effecting social change” is the number of Pell Grant recipents a schools has, as that it the only distinction you have drawn between the schools.</p>
<p>By your current reasoning Wesleyan, as an institution, is better at producing social change than Harvard and Yale solely because a greater percentage of Wesleyan students receive Pell Grants. By the same reasoning, Wesleyan is not as effective as South Carolina State University and Jackson State University, both of which have over four times as many (on a percentage basis) Pell Grant recipients as Wesleyan. Carrying your logic a little further, South Carolina State University and Jackson State University are more effective than Harvard and Yale. Sure, I will buy that. I am sure most others will to.</p>
<p>Good. I’m glad you buy that. I can sleep tonight confident I have fulfilled my social contract – one CCer at a time. :D</p>
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Well, South Carolina State is ranked [url=<a href=“URL Update | Washington Monthly”>http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2006/0609.national.html]higher[/url</a>] than both of them…</p>
<p>;)</p>
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Three cheers for irrelevance!</p>