Those of you who think every possible benefit of the doubt should be extended to the rockstar student might want to consider doing the same for OP.
I admit to reading between the lines, but it’s fairly obvious she considers the girl’s choice beneath her. Which, to me, indicates she values prestige…
At least the OP has the benefit of being able to explain and respond here, in the thread they started.
"But everyone’s not me. I have to accept that a lot of people are content to stay in their region, won’t ever think of living / moving elsewhere, and from that standpoint it doesn’t really matter if there is no national name recognition.
First of all, what makes you think that if a student attends a non-elite school that he or she will not want to move/live elsewhere? This is just silly…"
That isn’t what i said, is it? I didn’t say “if a student attends a non-elite school, he / she will never want to move / live elsewhere.” I said a lot of people are content not to move / live elsewhere, and for those people, consequently, they may not care about any lack of national name recognition.
Not just beneath HER, but beneath everyone but a “remedial” 3.2 average student who is among the “dregs” of students everywhere. It’s a very broad brush the OP is using-that unless a student is such a poor example of a student at all, they have no business attending such a college, and “rock stars” in particular should run in the other direction, even if they are getting a full ride. Why give the benefit of the doubt to someone who feels that way and has made it clear in post after post?
@2muchquan and @sseamom Aren’t you the least bit afraid that your rockstar daughters may meet up with the 2.5 dregs , fall in love , get married and procreate this diluting the rockstar gene pool? Horrifying possibility .
A perspective here from the trenches - I teach at a regional university, and I concur with @blossom : my rock star students are here due to affordability, or family responsibilities, or ease of transfer from a CC, or scholarship money etc. Many have to work at least part-time. Even with commuting from home, tuition at a directional state univ. in NJ is relatively high. Most of them have the self awareness to know that the academic standards are not up to their level. These students end up finishing their degree quickly ,even with their other responsibilities, sometimes get a double major, land decent jobs etc. At any rate, they are not sitting around lamenting that they didn’t get to go to a better place. I usually get to know the students in our math program fairly well, and am impressed by what they accomplish. It’s a world apart from the comfy suburb where I live, only a few miles from where I teach.
For me… I have a lot of curiosity as to what schools my D16’s peers choose for a number of reasons…
- We are in Texas. Very few kids at my D16's high school attend OOS. I always get excited when one of them chooses OOS. As transplanted Northerners, I secretly do a little "Yay they escaped (TX) dance". Sometimes not so secretly, last year during the final band concert where they announce the seniors and what schools they are attending, out of the 26 seniors only one was going OOS. They announced she was attending Ohio State and I was so excited I loudly proclaimed "You go girl!".
- These kids work hard during HS. I guess I look at it as why put in all the work to be the Rockstar but then make a lateral move? Generally people work hard to get ahead. So the choice of school is interesting to me, I like to see what others think their next best step is.
- It is human nature to compare yourself/your kids to others. Of course we shouldn't and we should be happy in our own decisions etc, but lets face it we ALL do it. And we all project our own values too. If we are lucky we are able to reel these human failing in and try to be objective.
- I have a D18, so I like to see where D16's peers are choosing as a sort of live action Naviance. I have more than once looked into a school because Suzy Q applied there. I use that information to temper my kids choices. If Suzy Q has similar grades/scores/ecs as my kid and they don't get in the likelihood that my kiddo is going to be admitted is probably similar.
Right now my D16 has a very good Rockstar friend who has applied to Vanderbilt and has a decent shot of being accepted. Her parents are more than capable of footing the bill and there are no extenuating circumstances that prevent her from attending if she is admitted, except that friend’s older sister (who was not nearly the “Rockstar” as this kid) is attending a non-flag ship state school. This girl’s parents have unequivocally told this girl that they will not be paying the money for her to attend Vanderbilt. If state non-flagship is good enough for older sister than it is good enough for her. We attended a recruiting event for the non-flagship school with her and her family so I have the information first hand. IMO only valid reason that they gave was Rockstar wants to be neurosurgeon and what difference does it make where she goes to undergrad…although I slightly disagree because I do think that it does matter what school you attend and course vigor plays a part in med school admissions. Rockstar friend is an auto admit to the state flagships and her parents are STILL encouraging her to attend the non-flagship. I am gunning for her to get into Vanderbilt, hopefully with some merit aid. I will be jaw dropping myself if she gets in and her parents don’t encourage her to go. She routinely tells me “it is sort of sad that you are more excited about my college search than my own parents”. I want her to get in and attend because that is her dream it has very little to do with prestige.
I don’t fault OP for her observation, ya’ll seem to be judging her as much as you think she is judging the Rockstar. What is that saying…“Let he who is without sin caste the first stone” (I don’t know I am not religious).
@carolinamom2boys : “@2muchquan and @sseamom Aren’t you the least bit afraid that your rockstar daughters may meet up with the 2.5 dregs , fall in love , get married and procreate this diluting the rockstar gene pool? Horrifying possibility .”
Interesting film which speaks of these minglings, those of high expectation and those of societally-labeled low expectations:
“Frequencies,” also known as OXV: The Manual is a 2013 independent British science fiction romance film directed and written by Darren Paul Fisher.
In what world is Ohio State a source of excitement vs. UT?
I understand that seeing the world from Ohio vs. Texas is a broadening move for a kid. (and personally I agree that it’s valuable but respect that it’s not for everyone). I understand that a kid spreading wings is a great thing if the family is supportive (and respect that not everyone feels that way).
But from a purely intellectual perspective (and after all, college is an intellectual and academic experience) is Ohio State a more valid choice than the Texas flagship?
this I’m not seeing.
A kid picking U Michigan vs. U Maine? Yes- I think that kid is trading up academically- all things being equal- unless there’s a particular program in Maine (one of their forestry or paper science programs perhaps) that you just can’t get elsewhere. A kid picking U VA vs. U New Mexico? Yes, I think that’s a step up.
But Ohio vs. UT seems to be somewhat random.
But kids pick colleges for all sorts of reasons.
“I have to accept that a lot of people are content to stay in their region, won’t ever think of living / moving elsewhere, and from that standpoint it doesn’t really matter if there is no national name recognition.”
Quite true, and in communities where this is the trend, I have found that most of those kids, and the adults who raised them, and the adults who raised them, are all possessed of a kind of … joy at being just where they have always wanted to be.
Of course, kids who grow up moving around the country and internationally may not see national name recognition as a reason to take on UG debt, either. Is that attitude restricted to those who are content to stay in a single area?
If you aren’t likely to get into UT-Austin OOS choices are just as valid as other in-state choices. For Texas residents If you are not in top 7-10% you are unlikely to get into UT, So in the world of TX if you are 12% OSU is a HUGE source of excitement and just as valid academically as say UNT or Texas Tech. If you aren’t a “Texan” at heart an OOS is exciting, I am definitely not a Texan at heart so I get excited when someone chooses OOS. But I also think school “culture” is as important as the academic/intellectual pluses or minuses.
I’m sure if the school was tOSU or Kentucky or NCST or Scranton, the exclamation would still have been: “You go girl!” I think the point was that the student was blowing the dust off their boots.
Here is a student who started college at an open admission community college:
http://wserver.scc.losrios.edu/~express/sp08/080509/080509forum.html
http://hector.ucdavis.edu/UCDSO/02Archive/Personnel/0304personnel/Benavidez.htm
He later transferred to a state school to complete his bachelor’s degree and graduated at the top of the class:
http://news.berkeley.edu/2011/05/10/medalist2011/
He is now a PhD student at a nationally known school:
“Aren’t you the least bit afraid that your rockstar daughters may meet up with the 2.5 dregs , fall in love , get married and procreate this diluting the rockstar gene pool? Horrifying possibility .”
Well, my husband was an “ok” student in HS, probably around the “remedial” 3.2 cited above. It might have had something to do with having to work nearly FT to help support the family, as his father had long since passed away and his mother was a low-earning service worker. He attended a not-stellar community college for the first two years then transferred to the state flagship, where he paid his own way, since by then his mother had died too. He was never a “rock star” in college either, because he was mostly trying to keep his head above water.
But you know what? He has 2.5 degrees, a good job, and is one of the smarter people I know. He’s also one of the NICER people I know. I married him and we replicated. We have a rock star daughter. Maybe she’ll meet someone just like my husband at her college. The idea that a HS GPA defines someone is just myopic.
@labegg I believe the quote you were looking for was John 8:7, which refers to Jesus saying
“The person who is without sin among you, let them be the first to throw a stone at her.”
which according to some unofficial translations was followed by the very first time in history where someone uttered the phrase “Aw, Mom, you always spoil everything!”
All those years of Catholic school still haunt me…
“Of course, kids who grow up moving around the country and internationally…”
Interesting, as the response to this, notwithstanding the taking on of debt, can be one or the other.
Some kids who grow up moving around the country are content to continue to do so, having no sense of emotional rootedness to any one place. Others have sought to be planted, and so seek a place where they can do just that. If the last years of high school found them in one place, that can be the one place they choose to stay.
My son decided to forego an incredible opportunity to go to what is arguably the top-rated boarding school in the nation, though the offer was incredible (incredible!), just to be able to graduate with the kids that he had been with the longest in his school career. Having gotten a taste of what that felt like, being with one group of kids through for an extended period, he was then ready to hop a plane with a one-way ticket and start his undergraduate studies.
I like hearing the stories about people who started off at community colleges, and achieved great success. They are sort of like the stories of people who trained for a marathon by running up and down a mountain barefoot with rocks in their pockets. But I don’t think that’s necessarily the best way for most people to train for running a marathon.
Interesting, Hunt. By virtue of where I live and work, it’s not uncommon at all for students to either do Running Start (community college during the last 2 years of high school) or to start college at a CC, then transfer after two years. It’s GOBS cheaper, the schedules are flexible, and nearly all of the CC’s partner with 4-year colleges. Many of the kids who do this are good students, some are even “rock stars”. Not everyone gets money thrown at them or have parents with very deep pockets so that they can attend “top” colleges. I’d hardly compare them to the rare, untrained marathoner. Most of them are simply practical when it comes to financing their educations.