<p>Goldman</a> Sachs Tweeter Says More American Kids Should Skip 'Useless College Degrees' - Forbes</p>
<p>I don’t see why a tweeter who works for Goldman Sachs is any more important than anyone else, so I’m not sure why I should care what he / she says.</p>
<p>Edited to add: “GSElevator, the anonymous account of a Goldman Sachs employee is notorious for tweeting (often offensive) elitist, sexist and racist quotes claimed to be overheard in the bank’s hallowed elevators. The banter complements many public perceptions of Goldman: it’s a rich, white boys club that espouses drinking, bed-hopping and spending extravagantly. If Gordon Gekko tweeted, I’d wager it would resemble @GSElevator’s account.”</p>
<p>GSElevator <em>is</em> funny, no doubt. But what’s so amusing is how painfully out of date the sentiments espoused are. It’s like they are stuck in the greed-is-good 1980’s and they don’t have the sophistication to realize the rest of the world moved on. It reminds me of that old Brady Bunch movie where the BB are in their 70’s clothes, still think they are cool, and are completely unaware that no one else is like that anymore. That’s what this world seems like to me. Out of date and blissfully unaware.</p>
<p>He’s got a point, no matter where he works or how rude his tweets generally are.</p>
<p>But the article is spot on that as a culture we’ve moved away from respect for the trades and encouraging our kids to consider them even in the face of how important and well-paid much of trade work is. There is some irony in how fervently many pursue the white-collar equation that earnings=success only to be shocked at how much their plumber or electrician makes.</p>
<p>PG, I am pretty sure the essential GS (IB in general) culture has not changed much if at all. Same pipeline–same guys hiring guys like themselves.</p>
<p>Actually, the fact that many people find blue collar work undesirable is not a new thing. Vance Packard, in his 1959 book The Status Seekers, noted the same thing. A taxi driver mentioned to him that he was only able to make $75 per week at best doing petty white-collar jobs. Packard suggested the $100 per week jobs at a nearby factory, but the taxi driver acted as if that were an insult. The taxi driver also mentioned that his father earned and easy $150 per week as a stone mason.</p>
<p>Note: $100 in 1959 = $802.56 in 2013, according to [CPI</a> Inflation Calculator](<a href=“CPI Inflation Calculator”>CPI Inflation Calculator) . So think of these pay numbers as approximately $30,000, $40,000, and $60,000 per year, respectively.</p>
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<p>But maybe they resent the fact that the HYP express lane to investment banking is now much more competitive to enter, so that their prep school and legacy advantaged kids now need to meet higher academic standards than they themselves had to meet in the past.</p>
<p>So let 'em resent it. I still don’t see why the opinions of people who work at Goldman Sachs are of any more or less importance than the opinions of anyone else. As far as I’m concerned, they are no different to me than any other upper middle class professional with a good job. Maybe <em>they</em> think they are different / special - but that’s only in their minds. They can only maintain the illusion that they are masters of the universe if you all treat their pronouncements with reverence. </p>
<p>As for the notion that “as a culture we’ve moved away from respect for the trades” - I don’t see that. I think people of sophistication have always recognized the value of the trades, and known how important and well-paid much of trade work is. It’s the unsophisticated who think that the only path to success is HYP+i-banking (or similar). Why would I, as a sophisticated upper middle class professional, pay one bit of attention to what unsophisticated wannabes think?</p>
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<p>A few reasons for that include the fact many of the trades are dirty, physically demanding, and dangerous. </p>
<p>If one’s not physically strong or inclined towards careers requiring manual dexterity or being “good with one’s hands”, going into such careers may not only be ill-considered, but also possibly fatal as friends in such occupations have witnessed while in training or working with less careful/inclined colleagues earlier in their careers. </p>
<p>I say this as someone where some of my work requires me to have some such skills/tolerances…especially considering some of the computer maintenance work I’ve done requires a fine level of manual dexterity…especially when working with laptops and all-in-one type desktops*. I’ve also had to lift and carry towers weighing as much as 50-60 pounds for some distance as part of my past job responsibilities. </p>
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<li>E.g. Imacs.</li>
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<p>Assuming those numbers are accurate, then of course he is right that a college degree is unnecessary for finding a job for a lot (50%) of people going to college. It seems we would need to know how many good paying blue collar jobs are available though, to plug into that equation.</p>
<p>The problem is that no one can see the future; no one knows for sure whether they will end up with a good job or not, so it makes sense to go to college regardless to increase your chances, and most importantly, to learn more.</p>
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<p>My plumber put 5 kids through Catholic high school and then college on his plumber’s wages. He now has a college educated plumber (his son) working with him. And my lawyer husband jokes that by the hour (H works an awful lot of those!), the plumber makes more than he does.</p>
<p>“There is some irony in how fervently many pursue the white-collar equation that earnings=success only to be shocked at how much their plumber or electrician makes.”</p>
<p>I’m a SAHM whose husband is a commercial refrigeration mechanic. He went through five years of trade school to become a journeyman. He is in a union, drives a company vehicle (gas and insurance expenses paid, naturally), has a company-issued iPhone, and our family receives excellent medical, dental and vision benefits. Our EFC is around $30k. </p>
<p>In addition, he is so handy that he is able to maintain our cars and upgrade our home. His skills and resourcefulness provide huge savings to us, making his trade even more valuable.</p>
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<p>Agreed that, if one is not well-suited for a particular trade, one should pursue something more suitable. Not all trades require strength, fine manual dexterity, etc. Same advice applies to white-collar occupations; if you aren’t good with numbers, perhaps accountant is not your best option.</p>
<p>“As for the notion that “as a culture we’ve moved away from respect for the trades” - I don’t see that.”</p>
<p>I’m glad you don’t see that, but in another thread here on CC, a user complained bitterly that a guidance counselor at a college-prep high school suggested tradework to parents and students.</p>
<p>Well, maybe the culture I was referring to was CC… ;)</p>
<p>Is there a Trade Confidential where parents can rank trades and obsess about hourly rates and the prestige of their kids’ apprenticeships?</p>
<p>^^ LOL! I’m sure there’s one somewhere, but as I have a D14, all my extra time these days is spent fervently combing CC. (-:</p>
<p>haha. The wealthiest man I personally know is trying to get his second-son to accept $100k and a truck to start in a trade, the kid is smart enough, handy and my friend thinks his son would be better off not in a suit and tie job.</p>
<p>I was a first to college in a trades family and my cousins make more than I do.</p>
<p>The problem is, many of the same talking heads (and I agree with PP’s who questioned the value of listening to talking heads and tweeting fingers) talk out both sides of their mouths. Don’t major in something useless! Learn a trade instead! Don’t complain that your wages are too low, go to college and better yourself! Darn those Union Thugs! But, learn a Trade! Or, major in something useful! Like a trade!</p>
<p>There are paths to success out there for every aptitude and affinity. The biggest struggles come when people try to follow someone else’s “recipe for success.” When I was in college, everyone was rushing off to Law School because “Lawyers are now running everything!!! You will be a success!” Kids who would have been much better off in other sales or management type positions tried to get into Law School with great desperation. Take a look at the job market for Attorneys these days…not so great. I predict in 20 years, many of these kids who could have been really successful History or Economics majors who are desperately trying to survive Engineering will feel much the same way.</p>
<p>Study what you love and what you are good at, be it through college or apprenticeship or whatever’s appropriate. Always keep an eye on the world of work and figure out how you can take your skills and talents and fit in there. End of advice.</p>
<p>Is there a shortage of people going into trades?</p>
<p>I also think that for many people, “start your own business” is not very practical advice.</p>
<p>Also, what annoys me about this kind of advice is that this guy isn’t talking to people who might be able to join him at Goldman Sachs. He’s not suggesting that HIS degree was worthless. He’s talking about other people who have no chance of getting the kind of job he has–maybe, people who are getting communications degrees at lesser state universities. Why should any of them listen to him? Why should they think his motive is to benefit them in any way?</p>
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<p>Sales is a career path looked down upon by many folks with high academic achievement and/or highly technical engineering/CS folks as its very suitability for social butterflies who know how to hobnob with people is considered suspect and a sign it’s not for those of high intellects/skillsets. </p>
<p>Observed this from both the academic and the highly engineers within my own extended family, academia, and much more so…from engineering/CS majors among HS classmates and colleagues.</p>