<p>I meant something along the lines of "very smart nerds from the North". Most people I know think Vandy has got a lot of them.</p>
<p>Its also pretty clear that most people who do bashing usually don't back it up.</p>
<p>For example, there have been several posts (from just a few posters though) which are like "School X is totally overrated" - with no reasoning behind it. I guess perceptions of schools change from place to place. For example, I'm guilty of underrating Michigan a great deal, but its because I was generally unaware of its quality. A little research stops people from sounding dumb...lol.</p>
<p>duke is heavily overated in my opinion.</p>
<p>What is wrong with emory???</p>
<p>The big H - all the time!</p>
<p>Berkeley gets flak for the following reasons:
1. erroneous perception that undergrad programs are not up to par with its graduate programs
2. small OOS undergrad population - due to the fact UC is a public university required to serve California residents
3. lower SAT average than elite private peers
4. larger student population with larger lower-division class sizes
5. smaller endowment - but made up with state and federal funding
6. grittier urban environment
7. less generous financial aid</p>
<p>IMO, other schools such as Emory and Vanderbilt get flak because they don't have the breadth and depth of prestigious programs that other peer institutions do...also, there is a bias because of location.</p>
<p>In full disclosure, I went to Cornell. I don't think anyone has to tell a Cornell grad about this bashing, long before CC existed. It haunts the school with an extraordinary inferiority complex. In many ways, this makes it better. So many students work so hard at Cornell, almost to prove they belong with the "top dogs". The workload is renowned for being amongst the toughest. Yet, they will always carry with them that monicker of "the doormat Ivy". </p>
<p>Since graduating, I have come to really appreciate that what makes Cornell great in its own right is what drags its reputation through the mud when judged by the ranking fanatics. It truly lives up to its egalitarian motto of any person, any study. When people (even within Cornell) see a bunch of farmers or other people learning a salt-of-the-earth trade (whose admissions standards are obviously easier) on the same campus as quantum physics, business, or architect students (whose admissions standards are amongst the hardest), it makes Cornell look less refined and hard to categorize. </p>
<p>And yet Cornell is simultaneously serving as a regional economic incubator for Upstate New York industries while at the same time building the first truly transnational university from NYC to Qatar and throughout its curriculum. It is pioneering an entirely new type of global university to serve an increasingly transnational society for which it should be lauded, not denigrated.</p>
<p>The Ivy League is, ultimately, just an athletic conference. Imagine if the SEC or Big 10 had such intense scholarly comparisons between their schools. There's certainly no "Big 10" tab on the main page of this website. </p>
<p>Yet to try to compare the small almost liberal arts environment of Dartmouth with the free flowing style of Brown with the transnational offerings of Cornell with the tight 4,000 undergrad student body of Harvard is absurd. These incredible schools each offer something so fundamentally different that they defy comparison except perhaps when playing football or lacrosse. And yet, those silly rankings will try in vain to make sense of it all.</p>
<p>It's easy to confuse "bashing" with merely reacting to unabated cheerleading. You'll find that the list of "victims" is usually composed by the pompoms agitators for Berkeley, Michigan, Wisconsin, Tufts, etc. and silly rankings creators.</p>
<p>
[quote]
pompoms agitators for Berkeley
[/quote]
</p>
<p>:D...yes, I fall into that camp. </p>
<p>Difference of opinion is what makes the world interesting.</p>
<p>
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Difference of opinion is what makes the world interesting.
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</p>
<p>Indeed, different opinions make the world interesting, but to a certain point. After that, the unrelenting bludgeoning of biased and misleading opinions becomes annoying. </p>
<p>Each school is what it is ... with its qualities and weaknesses. A fact that the pompom crowd is obviously unable to accept. The "our undergraduate is every bit as good as [name a school that is more prestigious and deserving of accolades] is what gets tiring. But not as tiring as the repeated attempts to amend the correct perception of undergrad programs that are not up to par with the graduate programs, the small OOS undergrad population culled from students who happen to have other choices, the lower SAT average than elite private peers, the larger student population with larger lower-division class sizes and overcrowding, the smaller endowment and forecasts of growing financial problems, the grittier urban environment, the lack of guaranteed housing, and less generous financial aid outside federal aid. </p>
<p>Did I miss a few?</p>
<p>
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Each school is what it is ... with its qualities and weaknesses. A fact that the pompom crowd is obviously unable to accept.
[/quote]
I accept the fact that every school has qualities and weaknesses. I openly listed the weaknesses for my university...</p>
<p>
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After that, the unrelenting bludgeoning of biased and misleading opinions becomes annoying.
[/quote]
All opinions are biased because they are molded from our experiences. It's only annoying because you happen to disagree with said opinions.</p>
<p>
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the small OOS undergrad population culled from students who happen to have other choices
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Haha! And I can see that you're shocked that those OOS students chose to attend. To each his own.</p>
<p>
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All opinions are biased because they are molded from our experiences. It's only annoying because you happen to disagree with said opinions.
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</p>
<p>Amen!</p>
<p>I also find it funny that one person can claim that others have "unrelenting bludgeoning of biased and misleading opinions," but don't think the same of their own.</p>
<p>I'm trying to be objective here, but as an observer, I see a fair share of schools that are bashed quite often.</p>
<p>First, Cornell is often coined to be the "worst Ivy". From what I know, all the Ivies are incredible, so how can Cornell be the worst? Is it because they admit the highest percentage of applicants? They also have a largest class size in the Ivy league, so that's a factor, but it's also very popular among applicants, so it rejects many, many people.</p>
<p>Rice gets bashed, too. I don't know why, they just do.</p>
<p>Then there are the schools that get shunned and it's incredible. Cooper Union is incredibly selective and hardly ever gets mentioned. My personal feelings get in the way, but I don't know why the service academies are never included in discussions outside their own forums. They are just as tough to get in as anywhere in the country, and there is no one in this forum who can argue that, I just dare them to. I know not many CC'ers want to go fight in a war after they earn their prestigious undergraduate degree, but there are us few who still see the value of service. We could've gone to Ivies, and we reject Ivies to attend these military establishments that have produced some of this nation's most influencial leaders.</p>
<p>Notre Dame gets the raw end of the stick at times because everyone claims that they are a "football" school and not an academic powerhouse. They are certainly a top 20 school.</p>
<p>Actually, HYP get bashed a LOT on here for only accepting rich developmental cases or weird antisocial nerds and not "real" teens. </p>
<p>
[quote]
First, Cornell is often coined to be the "worst Ivy". From what I know, all the Ivies are incredible, so how can Cornell be the worst?
[/quote]
I'm not saying Cornell is or isn't the worst Ivy, but your logic makes no sense. Just because all the Ivies are great doesn't mean they're all identical and can't be ranked in any way. Even if you go in a candy shop you can still pick which type of candy you think is the worst, right? It's possible to be the worst of a good batch.</p>
<p>
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Amen!</p>
<p>I also find it funny that one person can claim that others have "unrelenting bludgeoning of biased and misleading opinions," but don't [sic] think the same of their own.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Problem with that, my dear friend Kyle, is it'd take a leap of faith to equate the volume of the posts of the so-called pompom crowd with the ones of the readers who are subjected to the annoyance. For instance, should we analyze your post count and segregate the "informational" posts from the ones that push the "bludgeoning" agenda. After that, you are welcome to go do the same for the schools I am supposedly ... pushing. </p>
<p>The bottom line is very simple. There are a few people who push and push a number of schools and then complain when people are getting fed up of reading the same trite story ... over and over and over again. Fwiw, there are only a mere handful of schools and only a handful of firewater soaked cheerleaders who can't let it go. </p>
<p>It's NOT the other way around, and this has been the case from the day this forum started. It's not a matter of having a different set of opinions as much as one getting tired of the same hackneyed discussions of "Ohmygod, why can't Michigan or Berkeley or Wisconsin" get a fraction of the credit they supposedly deserve, the same asinine tiered-ranking presentations, and the same peer assessment defense non-sense.</p>
<p>
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After that, you are welcome to go do the same for the schools I am supposedly ... pushing.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>What schools are you talking about? (Am I supposed to see something here?)</p>
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should we analyze your post count and segregate the "informational" posts from the ones that push the "bludgeoning" agenda.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>As far as I can tell, my posts are logical and can be backed up with data and the opinions of others. If not, feel free to point out where.</p>
<p>
[quote]
There are a few people who push and push a number of schools and then complain when people are getting fed up of reading the same trite story
[/quote]
</p>
<p>To be honest, it's pretty obvious you have some strange hatred of the UC system and in particular Berkeley -- your flagrant disdain appears in many of your posts. You argue against the school(s) as much as those who argue for it, if not more so. As such, your posts that "push and push" against Berkeley et al are just as annoying as those that cheerlead for it. See the trend here?</p>
<p>Is that so, KyleDavid? </p>
<p>Interestingly enough, we have about the same exact number of posts. How many more posts do you think YOU have on the subject of the UC than I might have? Ten, twenty, fifty times more? What is your definition of many in the context of "your flagrant disdain appears in many of your posts?" And what does strange mean in "To be honest, it's pretty obvious you have some strange hatred of the UC system and in particular Berkeley." </p>
<p>Again, you'd be hard-pressed to find expression of one-sided disdain for the UC system. What you'll find is exasperation about the blind and dumb cheerleading for some schools --what you try to pass for factual appraisal! Since I tend to view this type of cheerleading as deplorable for all schools, it just so happens that Berkeley and Michigan gets most of the disdain because its dumb cheerleading reaches such a recognizable level on this forum. </p>
<p>For what it is worth, I have been happy to recognize the superior performance of the UC system in its appropriate context. Unfortunately, this is a forum that discusses financial aid, SAT scores, dedication to teaching by faculty, and other metrics that are relevant to the undergraduate parts of an university and to colleges. And, in the context of undergraduate performance, I have no problems in recognizing that Berkeley, UCLA, and Michigan are solidly anchored in the top 50 in the USNews Best Colleges and well established among their peers ... the best public universities in the country.</p>
<p>
[quote]
How many more posts do you think YOU have on the subject of the UC than I might have? Ten, twenty, fifty times more?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I don't know how many you have--nor do I care--but the majority of my posts don't have anything to do with UC.</p>
<p>
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What is your definition of many in the context of "your flagrant disdain appears in many of your posts?"
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Of all the posts I've seen of yours, quite a high number of them are you bashing UC. (Of course, I'd need to know the denominator here, and I don't--again, nor do I care.)</p>