<p>
[quote]
The beat goes on ... The beat goes on ... drums keep poundin' rhythm thru the brain ...
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Cher :cool:</p>
<p>He desperately needs the last word. If he would just stick to the question without attempting any besmirching exhaggerated misinformation, I would let him have it. With zoom, though, this has absolutely nothing to do with reef points. I'm just pretending that it is in order to keep 'humoring' him. However, if you scan back, with each rebirth, I seem to influence another young candidate to see things in the proper way. So maybe it is not a total waste of time.</p>
<p>'69, </p>
<p>In reading back through 8 pages of post you did indeed qualify your initial cheating comment, while it's not a term I would choose to apply, considered within the context of your explanation, it is understandable in your attempt to make your point about a subject you obviously feel very strongly about. My mistake and apologies.</p>
<p>on another forum, where this topic of reading reef points is being discussed between mostly usna grads, a participant made the following comment about it:</p>
<p>
[quote]
As a USNA grad and former detailer, I am opposed to the idea of trying to memorize reef points ahead of time. However, the reality is that it will make little difference. I'd advise candidates to focus on getting themselves physically prepared for the grind of the summer and to help their classmates as much as possible once they get there.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>i'm putting it here because it seems to be in the middle and a balanced viewpoint from someone in the know (as a detailer)</p>
<p>I agree that I.Q. and ability to juggle many things in life are important traits. However many other traits are equally important. Learning has evolved greatly over the past 40 years with internet access and full utilization of it is required to be at the top of most fields. One would be just as foolish to not utilize this tool to absorb as much knowledge as possible as one would be foolish not to study calculus, english, and chemistry. I believe institutions of learning fully realize this and actually encourage it for the top candidates willing to hunt for this knowledge and learn. The internet tends to put all candidates on an equal (not unequal as some have implied) playing field as many candidates have been preached this book of information all their lives from schools and family members while still a few have never heard of it or any naval information except for internet access.</p>
<p>I've read a decent amount of this thread. I've been wondering a lot about the question of whether or not to buy reef points ahead of time. I spoke to my teacher about it who is the mom of a USAFA grad. While reading it before hand isn't cheating, I think it's "beating the system." I don't want my success at the academy to stem from the fact that I'm beating the system. Beating the system by reading reef points may not be something huge, but it may set a precedent to beat the system in the future for something else. </p>
<p>I've decided not to get them ahead of time. (I'm not trying to start an argument at all, just posting my decision. :) please don't attack me)</p>
<p>Everyone is thinking WAY too far into this. No one will hate you if you buy reef points before hand. I would very much doubt that you would have enough time to sit around and talk about who bought reef points before they came anyway.</p>
<p>It is not "beating the system" either. Trust me, they will find something you don't know and you will have a new one ripped for you. It happens to the best of us and it is all about how you react to it.</p>
<p>Coming from a current midshipman's point of view (and the roommates agree), buying reef points prior is up to you and you will not be looked down upon for it. On a separate, more important note, you WILL be looked down upon if you're out of shape and can't pull your own weight so get running and do some push-ups after you read this.</p>
<p>I knew the mission, first three general orders of a sentry, the 5th law of the navy, and all the ranks on I-Day. It helped me for the first week but after that there were so many things to do and new rates to learn, new things required of me that it really didn't matter. Perhaps it made my transition easier than some but isn't that why you're on this site?</p>
<p>Well put usna243. Now on that note, close discussion, this seems to be one of those threads that gets ugly. :P</p>
<p>I got my reef points. I don't know if I am gonna memorize everything, but it is nice to know where everything is in the book. Also, memorization is something that takes practice, and if I can get better at memorizing things verbatim then it might make it easier to learn under the stress of Plebe Summer. I am sorry if this position offends anyone, but this is just the way I feel.</p>
<p>Its the alumni that are beating this topic into the ground.
While at the CVW I asked the "reef points" question to every one of the 5 admissions officers who were available at the presentation and other events for the parents in casual conversation unobtrusively over the weekend. </p>
<p>Guess what.......
I got five different answers.....or variations
O-1 "won't help, the the pressure of Plebe activities causes most to plebes lock up anyway"
2, O-3's Variations of (not a good idea you dont want to bilge your shipmates)
O-4 not what was intended but It would not hurt to be familar with the book.
and finally the O-5 (Naval Aviator in a flightsuit no less) paraphrased...go for it if you want to but it would be better to enjoy the last few days of freedom you have</p>
<p>Not one said it would be CHEATING....</p>
<p>Some of you Alumni need to get a life....
It seems it may be more important to win the argument than what is best for the forum, specifically the candidates.</p>
<p>You might want to be careful what you say about the alumni. Believe it or not, most of them are on your side. I've never met an alumnus out in Nap town who wasn't a great guy.</p>
<p>xchefmike, </p>
<p>you're falling into the same trap I did in responding to that assessment about, "cheating", you need to go back and read the initial responses in order to appreciate the nature of the advice being given, it really had nothing to do with "cheating" of the type you are thinking, in the end it's about making the most of the experience, you can take it from there....</p>
<p>FTR I am on the don't look til I-Day crowd. Just thought it was getting ugly in here again.
Alumni come in all shapes and sizes. Personally know many, Respect all, Disagree with a very few. As a group Love'em to death.</p>
<p>xchefmike makes one mistake. Its not THE alumni, as in the collective group, its AN alumnus that keeps beating this topic to death in an effort to prove how correct that person is.</p>
<p>I asked my soon-to-be first class son, who will be in the cadre first set and is an honor board investigator, about this issue. With great difficulty in getting his attention with regard to this matter, i.e. [and I can't even begin to express his reaction] you are actually discussing this?!!!! on CC?, he thought this was a GREAT DEAL of discussion about NOTHING! </p>
<p>His reaction was that if somebody wanted to get it ahead of time [and he did not] it was NO BIG DEAL and wouldn't amount to one bean in the whole hill of beans that has made up his Academy education so far.
In other words whether one obtains a copy ahead of time or not was somewhat analagous to the clocks that try to compare the existence of man to that of the Universe: it amounts to about tw0 seconds [maybe not even that much] out of a twenty-four hour day.
He basically said that it doesn't hurt--nor does it really help--to have SOME familarity with aspects fo the Navy ahead of time. If you have some extra time, want to read about some things, are generally bored, curious, inquisitive, overly-nervous, etc., etc., etc., then go buy a copy. If you want to enjoy your summer--as brief as it is--don't sweat it.</p>
<p>As for the notion that obtaining one was "cheating?" He just rolled his eyes and walked away.</p>
<p>If it were cheating, they wouldn't be selling it on the first table in the gift shop.</p>
<p>At the same token, if you were meant to have it prior to I-Day, it would have been mailed in your permit to report package.</p>
<p>Do what you will.</p>
<p>Just remember Einsteins theory: for every action, there is an equal but opposite reaction.</p>
<p>Enough said.</p>
<p>The permit to report package has a book titled "Important Information for Class of 2012." It has a section in it entitled "Reef Points" p. 12. In this section it states,</p>
<p>"The annual handbook of the Brigade of Midshipmen will be issued to you on Induction Day. During the course of Plebe Summer, you will be required to commit portions of it to memory and be familiar with all of its contents. Knowing the following information verbatim PRIOR to reporting to I-Day will be expected:</p>
<ol>
<li>The mission of the Naval Academy (found at the start of section IV of the booklet).</li>
<li> Your administrative chain of command:</li>
<li>First three General Orders of a Sentry:"</li>
</ol>
<p>I would think that in order to know the information verbatim, USNA is expecting you to buy and memorize the specified parts. If you did buy and memorize it then I would think that they would expect that you read the rest. Is it cheating when it is expected of you?</p>
<p>Navy2010 that would be Newton's Third Law of Motion :-)</p>
<p>you can find all of that information in places other than Reef Points. </p>
<p>what do they mean by administrative chain of command, though? like the supe, dant, CNO, JCS, etc? or do they actually give you your chain of command like squad leader, platoon leader, company commander, etc.?</p>
<p>
[quote]
Navy2010 that would be Newton's Third Law of Motion :-)
[/quote]
</p>
<p>oops!!! :o</p>
<p>well since Einstein didn't work, let be try again with Shakespeare:</p>
<p>"much ado about nothing." :rolleyes:</p>
<p>And since USNA will be "giving you" your Reef Points almost immediately upon arrival (and will, in fact, put it on your "bill"), it would seem prudent to get the information on-line (are you sure it was not already mailed in your permit to report packet? It was for 2010)....</p>
<p>unless, of course, you are willing to pay twice to find out "hows the cow"! :rolleyes:</p>
<p>honestly folks- getting Reef Points ahead of time is "secondary,optional and conditional".... you already have a copy of it with your name on it waiting for you in Alumni Hall! </p>
<p>chain of command-
as in president, sec of the navy, etc....
the yard stuff all comes later!</p>
<p>I just found all 3 of those bits of information in about 1-1/2 minutes of Googling. No Reef Points necessary.</p>