<p>As someone with a Ph.D. in theoretical physics in an area based on Einstein's work, I have to agree with Coureur. Einstein probably wouldn't have gotten into any top notch schools. Although the ETH was a well regarded school, the criteria for acceptance then are very different from today. There is no way that he would have wasted his time on trying to show passion by getting the awards etc. that are necessary for today's applicants (my daughter is a freshman at Harvard so I know the game). His work would have been invisible to most people until he was ~26 years old. Some of his professors even thought he was lazy.</p>
<p>Amazon, a 2400 isn't enough...I know plenty of people with sky-high test scores but low GPAs. Some of them are in college now and they're slacking off and partying like crazy. I think a 2400 is only a must-admit if he/she has a high GPA with a record of tough classes. But once you have that I think it's OK to admit them.</p>
<p>Why are posters discussing whether Einstein would have been admitted? Is it to demonstrate that there is some flaw in the college admissions process that colleges would fail to recognize genius if faced with it? Did Einstein demonstrate a glimmer of his genius at age 17?
What fallout there would be if a college had admitted Einstein as he was at 17 or 18. All those applicants with perfect SATs, sky-high GPAs, extraordinary Ecs.... and then Einstein, age 17. So what if he did demonstrate his genius at 26? It's irrelevant to decisions that had to be made about the 17-year old Einstein. Not to mention the fact that he made his discoveries without the benefit of the math and physics departments of HYPSMC...</p>
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<blockquote> <p>I can't believe how critical some people are of Einstein. There should be a separate thread about people trying to debunk his credibility as a great genius. <<</p> </blockquote>
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<p>No one here has tried to debunk Einstein as a genius. In my mind he along with Newton are the two greatest geniuses who ever lived. But the facts of his life simply do not support any assertions that he could have gotten into any school or that his brilliance was always apparent. And due to the fact that he was regarded as so mediocre, I would consider him a poster boy for the limitations of current high school education and the college admissions process. They are set up to educate and evaluate those near the mean, not those out on the far extremes.</p>
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<blockquote> <p>The "teaser" on the front cover says, "Would Albert Einstein Get Into College This Year?"<<</p> </blockquote>
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<p>My son's only "weak spot" on apps. is minimal community service and zero paid employment. I've always felt his job was being a good student, though I admire kids who can do that and a paid job too. I somewhat resent the "do it all" expectations of some schools. Of course, no one's forcing him to apply to those schools either and I guess they can expect whatever they want. There has to be some way to sort through all those super applicants!</p>
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<p>The math and physics department in 1900 at ETH was incredibly strong!</p>
<p>Einstein, like Edison & Ben Franklin, probably had ADD. What appears as cluelessness & laziness to some teachers could have been their brilliant minds jumping in a million directions and focus shifting from topic to topic. Ben Franklin flunked out of school when he was a ten year old because he failed math.</p>
<p>Would EInstein get in to Harvard today? Well, a Jewish violin player is soooo typical, he might not stand out.</p>
<p>RE: #Coureur's post 45.</p>
<p>Of course. But there is no reason for Cc posters to fall in line with idiotic teasers that are meant to sell papers.</p>
<p>From my standpoint, the issue is that many students (and parents) try to tailor their lives to getting into these schools. Unfortunately, many students succumb to this pressure. Einstein wouldn't have given a damn about awards, unlike many of the students applying to the top schools. Although my daughter is a Harvard freshman, loving it there and I was proud that she goes there, it really is pretty meaningless in the broad scheme of things. As a very hardworking student, she would be successful anywhere. So my question to all, is why all this emphasis on certain schools???</p>
<p>"My son's only "weak spot" on apps. is minimal community service and zero paid employment. I've always felt his job was being a good student, though I admire kids who can do that and a paid job too. I somewhat resent the "do it all" expectations of some schools."</p>
<p>Neither of those things is required for a student to get into most of the very top colleges. -- those in about the top dozen LACs and national universities. What is virtually a requirement is having about 2 strong, documented interests outside of taking regular school classes. Most students with those still won't get into those colleges because of a lack of space and an overabundance of highly qualified applicants.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, most colleges don't care whether a student has a job, ECs, community service, etc. What most colleges care about are a student's transcript and perhaps their board scores. Period. Indeed, most colleges accept the majority of their applicants.</p>
<p>Einstein probably wouldn't have gotten into Harvard. No big deal just as it's no biggie for the current students who are geniuses, but didn't do well in school or were late bloomers. Einstein is just one example of how it's not necessary for a student to go to a place like an Ivy in order to be a success or make a major impact on the world. Just because an Ivy probably wouldn't have accepted him doesn't mean that there's something wrong with Ivies either. They aren't designed for the late bloomers, but there are plenty of other colleges that welcome them, including offering fine environments for late blooming geniuses.</p>
<p>My S had near zero community service (tutored in science once a week before school) and no paid employment. Very little in the way of ECs, and these were all academic. But his passion certainly showed through. He was the poster child for the lopsided applicant, all-math all-the-time kid, and had been since he could read. He applied to two colleges and was admitted to both, his lack of community service, sports, artistic talent of any kind nothwithstanding.</p>
<p>The Asian girl with the 2400 also had a Very high GPA. The thing about a 2400 is that she maxed out on all 3 sections. The critical difference between that and a 790 790 790 is that no one knows how good she really is. She could have been capable of a lot more than the test was measuring.</p>
<p>"I don't know if it's discrimination against Asians (probably) or just something wrong with the whole system but that girl with the 2400 SAT score deserves to get into any college she wants! "</p>
<p>But, will her applications reflect this or might she blow off some figuring that her scores and other achievements are so stellar that she needn't spend time honing her application? Might she also sleepwalk through interviews feeling that she's doing the interviewer a favor to deign to show up?</p>
<p>Might she also make careless errors on her application? And, just because she has stellar scores and achievements doesn't mean that she has the kind of character that colleges want. She could be, for instance, a misanthropic loner. </p>
<p>I am not saying any of these things are true. I am saying, however, that scores and achievements on paper don't tell the whole story, and colleges may have very good reason for rejecting applicants who seem perfect to those who haven't seen the whole application.</p>
<p>I'm sure someone like her will get into some very good school where her intelligence will be fostered but I think it would be sad to reject her for any of those reasons - careless errors on application? misanthropic loner - the world needs some of these too although it's highly unlikely that she would be one at her tender age.</p>
<p>Re: Post #38. I believe that all the schools mentioned in the article are either independent or parochial schools or "public" schools which require entrance exams. The one exception is Edgemont H.S., which is a highly regarded public school located in the suburbs north of NYC.</p>
<p>As for the question of whether NY "pushes" AP exams, from personal knowledge I can say that a very highly regarded independent high school in NYC limits to 3 per year the amount of AP classes students can take. There are other independent schools in the same area which have abolished AP exams.</p>
<p>I was surprised at the (despite proclamations to the contrary here in CC) obvious advantage given (still!) to URMs in the college admissions process. It's really not a case of being given the nod when compared to an equivalent applicant; I feel that they are (often) given a real push.</p>
<p>these guys really freak me out.. it sucks to be an international applicant from a third world country wishing to get into some of those competitions... esp that intel one... at least..</p>
<p>A top SAT scores and a sky high GPA is no guarantee of acceptance at MIT as Mr. Li (whose case has been extensively covered on these boards) found out. He was not even waitlisted. And this has nothing to do with his ethnic background as MIT admits a greater number of Asian Americans that virtually any other top college. </p>
<p>MIT wil make no difference between a 2250 or a 2400 applicant. Nor will it automatically pick a candidate with a 4.0 UW GPA over a 3.85 UW GPA or a kid with 12 APs over a kid with 4 APs. Marilee Jones, head of admissions at MIT commented recently that the increase in average SAT scores and GPAs of incoming freshmen over the past decade has often resulted in less creativity in the classroom according to surveys among professors. </p>
<p>What MIT wants are kids that are capable of thinking "outside the box" and challenge the professors if necessary, not blindly regurgitate known methods. These are the students that will come with new and possibly patentable ideas. The kid who excels at math or physics in HS and is the fastest at solving a well defined problem may or may not do well at solving an ill defined problem which is generally what real world engineering and science is about. The slightly compulsive (borderline Asperger) and highly resilient kid may have a better chance. He may try a completely different approach and may not give up until he finds a solution. </p>
<p>The challenge is how to find these kids and MIT is certainly trying. I would not be surprised if they are applying some from of Myers-Briggs profile analyis as part of their application review. They are certainly leaning that way through their application and interviews where they try to elicit responses to questions such as response to pressure, recovery after failure, resilience etc... I personally think that every parent should have their kids take a basic Myers-Briggs test. It can be done for free and anonymously on the web. It would certainly help in finding the right fit during the college application process. My personal guess is that MIT is primarily looking for ENTP types (the archetypical inventors) or INTPs (the typical scientists) which constitute about 3% of the population each. This assertion is mostly based on my own experience at MIT as a graduate student in the 80's and discussions at alumni events. </p>
<p>I am not sure that Einstein would not have found his way into MIT after all had he been 17 years old in 2006! Even if his grades were not top notch he certainly exhibited the contrarian traits that would allow him to come up with is revolutionary ideas.</p>
<p>Many of the top schools are not looking only for high school "scholars" with perfect gpa's and sat's, but people who will produce in the future and are leaders. When the public hears about accomplishments of some Harvard or MIT graduate, it enhances the reputation of the institution. Somebody who has perfect scores has shown that they can learn. It doesn't say anything about how creative they are or their leadership capabilities. </p>
<p>In my work experience(currently in high tech semiconductor company), the Ph.D's from prestigious universities including MIT are working for people who got their degrees in night school (many who are Vietnam veterans). The ability to succeed depends not only on intelligence, but on such things as social skills, focus and not being risk adverse. The last item is what really separates the leaders from the followers. These are characteristics that can't be measured through sats.</p>