<p>micromom, not all brilliant researchers are great writers in the sense of putting pencil to paper and immediately coming out with a cogent essay. </p>
<p>I'm not sure how Saul Kripke would do in a 25-minute timed SAT essay on some banal assigned topic.</p>
<p>Read what the NYT says about how he writes his articles:</p>
<p>
[quote]
Except on very rare occasions, Mr. Kripke does not actually set words down on paper. He broods, gathers a few texts, makes a loose mental outline, and then at some public occasion, a lecture or a seminar, he just wings it, talks off the top of his head, the way Socrates used to, come to think of it. These talks are later transcribed and Mr. Kripke, now a distinguished professor at CUNY, edits and revises them, draft after draft, before approving them for publication. "How Saul can do this, I have no idea," Michael Devitt, a CUNY professor and former head of the philosophy program at the Graduate Center who was instrumental in bringing Mr. Kripke there, said of the Kripkean method. "He just seems to work it all out in his head. It's as if he's got privileged access to reality."
<p>EDIT: On the point of his precociousness, the NYT also wrote:</p>
<p>
[quote]
In many circles, Mr. Kripke, who in 2001 was awarded the Schock Prize, philosophy's equivalent of the Nobel, is thought to be the world's greatest living philosopher, perhaps the greatest since Wittgenstein. *Mr. Kripke is actually superior to Wittgenstein in at least two respects. Wittgenstein did not accomplish some of his most important work while still in high school. *And unlike Wittgenstein, who was small, slender and hawklike, Mr. Kripke looks the way a philosopher ought to look: pink-faced, white-bearded, rumpled, squinty. He carries his books and papers in a plastic shopping bag from Filene's Basement.
<p>
[quote]
micromom, not all brilliant researchers are great writers in the sense of putting pencil to paper and immediately coming out with a cogent essay.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Not all brilliant researchers are great writers, period. (I edit scientific journal articles for a living.)</p>
<p>
[quote]
I was thinking back to American Bandstand days, as the kids evaluated new records. "I thought the lyrics weren't so hot and you couldn't really dance to it, but it might make it onto the charts."
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Momof3sons, this cracked me up! I OFTEN think of American Bandstand vis a vis college search and selection. The reply that fits all sizes is "I like the beat." Intangible and unarguable.</p>
<p>Quote from article: "Id want to see more evidence that shes giving back to the community."</p>
<p>What bunk! You don't have to do any community service whatsoever to get into a top school; in fact, if it looks like you just stuck some in for the purpose ofyour college aps, it may actually undermine your application. Harvard, MIT, and the like are looking for students who are truly outstanding in their chosen areas of interest. If that chosen area involves community service, that's great. But a top student who devotes herself and truly stands out in the area of mathematics, debate, scientific research, music, or whatever does not need to tack on community service in order to get multiple acceptances to elite schools.</p>
<p>I have a feeling that Cohen was kinder and gentler for publication than she might have been with some of the kids if they were paying clients. What I noticed on several of the profiles was the utter lack of anything that would be considered a safety. Overall, the impression I came away with mostly was that there is obviously a very high level of expectation --- or even sense of entitlement -- that comes with being a top student at a well-known Ivy feeder school. Take a couple of these kids and put them, with the same accomplishments, at my son's average CA public high and there is no way Cohen would say he or she had a "good shot" at their ED top choice school. </p>
<p>What I want to know is: how can I arrange one of those no-grades-in-certain classes deals for S2?</p>
<p>Oh please. This article speaks volume about the paid counselors and the parents who are vulnerable and says nothing helpful about admissions, or even about the kids in question. This board could have been more helpful on a bad day about rating the kids lists than Cohen was for publication.</p>
<p>But hey, it sells magazines. Take one insecure parent from the upper east side; mix one article about how superstar kids might not be sure bets at HYP; stir with a dollop of reality when looking at one's own, normal, "can I go out with my friends tonight" HS Freshman, and the next thing you know.... the kid's got a college counselor and a host of new anxieties about not being special enough for an elite school. Mom and Dad can obsess that their kid did not have cancer, did not grow up disadvantaged, did not move here as a child speaking no English.... how the hell is he going to get into any college, let alone a good one, without some significant problem he had to overcome???</p>
<p>One student in that article has a 1920 SAT and attends Staten Island Tech. I was rejected from that school and now have a 2030 SAT and comparable GPA to the student mentioned in the article. I know other Tech students who scored lower than me on the SAT, one of which even transfered to my school. My 7th grade teacher even told me I would get in for sure. It just shows that their admissions process of jusk looking at GPA was flawed because I was taking high school classes in 7th grade. Therefore, my middle-school GPA was kind of low. So much for being rewarded for taking on challenges. Now Tech has uses a test for admissions that I'm pretty sure I could have done well on. Oh well, I am happy in my current school. </p>
<p>As for the students in this article being "super-applicants," some of them are, some aren't. There are people I know with higher scores than some of the students in this article. There was a student last year in my school with a 2200 SAT and who had the most amazing EC's I've ever seen (pres. of pratically every school organization, multiple varsity sports, valedictorian, etc.). This student is currently attending Harvard and was accepted into multiple Ivies and is probably the most "super" applicant I have ever seen. I highly doubt that Einstein would be turned down by any school. I mean come on, could you imagine how awesome his application would be! He will always be looked upon as perhaps the greatest intellect in the history of mankind. There is a reason why Time magazine chose him as Man of the Century (or Millenium, I can't remember which). I don't see this title in any of the applicants profiles.</p>
<p>I was going to give my own opinion of each kid's chances, but decided I don't have enough info. Re packaging, where a kid mentions athletics I wanted to see if the kid has enough skill to be a recruited athlete because that obviously changes the admissions chances. Matt Pincus after all was co-captain of the varsity XC team and was the most valuabel male runner. XC is a big sport at Williams, his ED school so is he recruited? (MOWC will love this) I can't find a time for him anywhere. At the state group meet, where nonpublic schools get to compete without qualifying, his school only had 2 runners in the race, neither of them Matt Pincus. One ran 19:34, the other much slower. So maybe he was injured.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>I highly doubt that Einstein would be turned down by any school. I mean come on, could you imagine how awesome his application would be! He will always be looked upon as perhaps the greatest intellect in the history of mankind<<</p>
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>His application wasn't awesome, because at age 18 his big achievements were all still in the future. He originally trained in college to be a teacher, but he after he graduated he got turned down a lot -- for every teaching job he applied for. Eventually he had to settle for a job as a clerk at the Swiss patent office. Outside of his family and friends, nobody ever heard of Albert Einstein before age 26.</p>
<p>Oh sorry! I never said Einstein was applying undergrad. He could be one of those 50 year-olds who wanted to get a graduate degree. By this time, his resume would be quite extensive. Also, with the technological innovations that we have access today (ie: the computer), Einstein could have accomplished a plethora of things before his 18th birhday, things that he never would have been able to many decades ago. Who knows, Einstein possibly could have discovered the atomic bomb as a curious High School student doing a Chemistry research project instead of the manhattan project. Of course, we'll never know.</p>
<p>I thought everyone knew that Einstein didn't get into college on his first try because he flunked the entrance exam.
[quote]
In 1895 Einstein failed an examination that would have allowed him to study for a diploma as an electrical engineer at the Eidgenössische Technische Hochschule in Zurich.....</p>
<p>Following the failing of the entrance exam to the ETH, Einstein attended secondary school at Aarau planning to use this route to enter the ETH in Zurich. While at Aarau he wrote an essay (for which was only given a little above half marks!) in which he wrote of his plans for the future, see [13]:-</p>
<pre><code> If I were to have the good fortune to pass my examinations, I would go to Zurich. I would stay there for four years in order to study mathematics and physics. I imagine myself becoming a teacher in those branches of the natural sciences, choosing the theoretical part of them. Here are the reasons which lead me to this plan. Above all, it is my disposition for abstract and mathematical thought, and my lack of imagination and practical ability.
</code></pre>
<p>Indeed Einstein succeeded with his plan graduating in 1900 as a teacher of mathematics and physics. One of his friends at ETH was Marcel Grossmann who was in the same class as Einstein. Einstein tried to obtain a post, writing to Hurwitz who held out some hope of a position but nothing came of it. Three of Einstein's fellow students, including Grossmann, were appointed assistants at ETH in Zurich but clearly Einstein had not impressed enough and still in 1901 he was writing round universities in the hope of obtaining a job, but without success. </p>
<p>He did manage to avoid Swiss military service on the grounds that he had flat feet and varicose veins. By mid 1901 he had a temporary job as a teacher, teaching mathematics at the Technical High School in Winterthur. Around this time he wrote:-</p>
<pre><code> *I have given up the ambition to get to a university ... *
</code></pre>
<p>Another temporary position teaching in a private school in Schaffhausen followed. Then Grossmann's father tried to help Einstein get a job by recommending him to the director of the patent office in Bern. Einstein was appointed as a technical expert third class.
<p>In light of the threads alleging discrimination against Asians, I thought this was interesting in the article:</p>
<p>"
Liming Luo
Hunter College High School, Manhattan
GPA: 97.2
SAT: 2400 (800 reading, 800 math, 800 writing)
AP scores: Chemistry (5), U.S. history (5)</p>
<p>Academic honors: Vice-president and co-founder of her schools chapter of Mu Alpha Theta (a national math honors society). Scored 122.5 (fewer than 5 percent of all students score over 100) on the American Mathematics Contest 12, a national math competition.</p>
<p>Extracurricular activities: Member, Hunters math A-Team, ranked second in New York City. Published The Mathematics of Tic Tac Toe in Hunters math magazine, Radicals. Co-champion at the 2005 Vassar Invitational Forensics Tournament (approximately 70 schools entered). Volunteered at a Chinese prep school teaching math to eighth-graders for one summer. Writes sci-fi and fantasy in her spare time.</p>
<p>Applying to: MIT (early), Harvard, Harvey Mudd, Columbia, Stanford, sunyStony Brook, Cornell, and Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute.</p>
<p>Her chances: Her perfect SAT score is truly outstanding but not a free ticket. She is applying to many technical colleges, so she will be competing against a lot of other high-achieving math/science kids (and a lot of other Asian students in particular). While she may be admitted to MIT early, I am not convinced shes a shoo-inId want to see more evidence that shes giving back to the community.</p>
<p>I can't believe how critical some people are of Einstein. There should be a separate thread about people trying to debunk his credibility as a great genius. </p>
<p>As for the original topic of this post, there should be a follow-up article on how the featured students faired in the admissions process (what schools they were accepted or rejected to, scholarships they received, etc.). I really think that the class of 2011 is the most competitive ever and I'm sure there are other "super-applicants" besides the ones mentioned in the article.</p>
<p>Another thing about the kids in the article:</p>
<p>I guess New York doesn't push its kids very hard academically. None of them has more than three AP test scores at this point (beginning of 12th grade), and none of them seems to have completed calculus in 11th grade (if they had, they would have AP calculus scores).</p>
<p>By Maryland/Virginia standards, this makes them slackers.</p>
<p>Marian, many private schools only allow a couple of APs before senior year. The AP courses at these schools are very challenging and the rest of the curriculum (non AP) is, as well. My son only had one AP course as a junior and 3 as a senior. Also, as has been pointed out on this forum, a number of top private schools are moving away from the AP curriculum completely and not offering AP. I think it limits the teachers in what they can teach.</p>
<p>In our area, the public schools still push APs very hard, with many kids taking them as early as 10th grade, when AP American Government is offered as an alternative to the standard 10th grade high school government course. The schools also push kids into algebra in 7th or even 6th grade, meaning that taking AP Calculus before senior year is now routine. I have no idea whether any of this does any good. It just seemed surprising to me that these New York superstars had about the same number of AP courses as my son did, and my son has always described himself as a slacker.</p>
<p>New York seems to have a very different philosophy than Maryland does.</p>
<p>Edited to add: Are all the schools that the "super-applicants" come from private?</p>
<p>My nephew took African history - I took British history at our private schools. Neither course is offered by the APs, but they were both taught at close to college level.</p>
<p>To Hepstar - the posts aren't criticizing Einstein. They are just pointing out that at 17 or 18 he was unformed enough that nobody realized yet that he was a genius.</p>
<p>I don't know if it's discrimination against Asians (probably) or just something wrong with the whole system but that girl with the 2400 SAT score deserves to get into any college she wants! She is the kind of person who would fully be able to take advantage of everything a school like MIT offers intellectually and would add as much to the class as your token squash star or someone who just happens to be a 1st generation college applicant from South Dakota. I'm sure she will "give back" to the community by doing great things some day.</p>