Congrats to @NYCMusicDad and @vistajay! @vistajay, I have LOVED following your S18’s journey! I’m so happy for that FULL RIDE! Sounds like it was well deserved and I’m glad that it has opened the door to so much opportunity! Bravo!
Congrats @NYCMusicDad and D! I did my grad work at NU and I think you guys made a great decision! Fit is truly the key!
Hello All,
I just registered, ran a search, and located the post from NYCMusicDad that appears to take me to exactly the place I need to be as I attempt to gather information to better understand the college application process for serious singers. My son is a high school junior, so we are just entering the process that NYCMusicDad is exiting.
My son is classically trained, fully involved in singing in multiple groups and at a high level inside and outside of school, and will definitely pursue classical voice in college/university (and quite possibly beyond). He has decided to not apply to conservatories unless part of a dual program because he loves other areas of study and does not want to narrow his focus too soon. I fully support this approach. He has done well academically, so Northwestern/Bienen is high on his developing list. The program sounds fabulous and appears to me that it would potentially be a great fit for him. I have a number of questions and would much appreciate any responses that time allows:
- What other programs are worth considering that combine strong academics and a top-notch music school/program? I have heard the NYU, USC, Michigan, Indiana, and Oberlin -- which, of course, are quite different from one another -- all fit that bill; I'm sure that several others should be added to the list).
- How would you describe the pros and cons of these universities, like Northwestern, with music schools within the university with affiliated programs that combines conservatory and university and where the student applies and must be accepted at both (such as New England Conservatory and Tufts/Harvard)?
- What good liberal arts colleges anywhere in the country just happen to have good music departments and opportunities for classical voice even without a built-in music school/conservatory. I'm sure that the music offerings would not be as comprehensive at, say, the Bienen School, but are there some well known strong music departments for classical voice or no real comparison?
- How does the audition schedule at Bienen connect with the application process at Northwestern, and do all of the universities with a music school within the university work the same way? And what is the overlap with the early decision process? With a more conventional college application process there's an advantage to applying to one's top choice early decision, but does the audition schedule at these schools allow for that?
- Do the heads of music departments or voice programs at liberal arts schools weigh-in at all and/or carry any weight with admissions (as coaches definitely do, even at the elite schools)? How does one navigate this part of the process?
Thank you for any responses!
My son is going to attend USC Thornton in the fall. USC music is basically a conservatory inside of a university. You can minor and double major, but the majority of classes for the BM are in music. NYU is similar. At USC you can minor in music without an audition, but for the BM it is all about the audition. Read the Dual Degree Dilemma post that is pinned to the top of the page to get started. There are also great schools with really good music departments that are not audition based.
Each school takes a different approach to auditions and admissions – for example you can get into USC, but be denied by the music school. At NYU if music denies you, you cannot get into the regular school. Same for UCLA Music school. I believe at NU you have to apply dual degree and be accepted by both NU and Bienen. Lots of things to learn! I went thru each school, created a spread sheet of requirements and went from there. It is a crazy process for sure! You will find lots of support and answers to questions on this page.
I do believe Bienen has an ED audition in November, check on that if he is really leaning that way, but also see what he will have to do to take classes outside of Bienen and how hard scheduling is.
You might want to read the Double Degree Dilemma posted closer to the top of this forum. It deals with the different ways to study music (and combine with other interests).
Schools that come up a lot in addition to the ones you named, for double degree, include Bard (conservatory students are required to do double degree, but voice might be in the college, not sure), Lawrence (people seem to love this school), Ithaca, Hartt School. Harvard/NEC, Tufts/NEC. Yale has a new double degree program for undergrads. Some state U’s fit the bill too. Oberlin is mentioned a lot for this, but that is on your list. UMichigan, Northwestern, USC come up a lot too.
College of Wooster, U. of Pacific, St. Olaf, DePauw- there are many programs.
A BA will be 2/3-3/4 music classes, a BM will be 2/3-3/4 music classes. There are also the options of double major, major/minor or majoring in something else entirely and doing music via lessons and extracurricular performance (often for credit) or even off campus.
Some of us have kids who applied to a few different options who decided at the end of April in senior year, because things sometimes change.
There are a lot of voice folks on here but my impression is that for classical voice there is no hurry 
I might be wrong.
Kids in excellent grad programs come from all kinds of backgrounds.
“Do the heads of music departments or voice programs at liberal arts schools weigh-in at all and/or carry any weight with admissions (as coaches definitely do, even at the elite schools)? How does one navigate this part of the process?”
What I can say is we had one college directly address this. UCSB for their BM program. While the stated they could not guarantee an admission, the faculty stated that musicians were “like recruited athletes” during the application process. Also, my DD was admitted to UCI early - along with the honors students and the Regent scholars even though her stats were not near this level.
Looking at my daughter’s admissions, it is clear that music got her into schools she would not have otherwise been admitted to based on academics alone. So, if your child is a high stat student and a talented musician, I suspect the door can be wide open.
I would second UCLA as an option for a high stat musician. Impressive program. Small but with all the resources of a major university. They have a BA program but it is structured very similar to a BM program.
Welcome, @collegeexploration . I suggest you read carefully through the Double Degree dilemma essay right away! There are so many different ways to approach the undergraduate education for a musician! I can’t speak to all these programs, but I will offer a few things I have learned over the last few years (my D is a freshman VP major at the Conservatory at Oberlin). At Oberlin, admissions for the College and Conservatory are handled separately; it is possible to be accepted into one or the other, or both (necessary for the double degree program). I don’t think it is possible to do early decision in the Conservatory, but I’m not sure. The Double Degree program there is a five year program. It is RIGOROUS. There are amazing students who graduate with a double degree every year, but in VP, I think it is easier to complete if the second degree is in a subject such as a language, for instance (where some of the degree requirements overlap). Just be aware that in a Conservatory setting of this caliber, a lot is expected of kids! For instance, Freshman year as a VP major at Oberlin has a standard 23 and 21 credits for the first two semesters. And, just as an example, in the past two weeks my D had 3 EXTRA evening rehearsals, a Saturday morning rehearsal, a Sunday evening concert, and was expected to attend 6 or 7 additional events (several student recitals, an important recital and masterclass by a guest singer, and the Marilyn Horne masterclasses…so AMAZING, by the way!); all this while practicing and preparing for juries, attending regular classes, rehearsals and coachings, and getting homework done. I mention this only to suggest that the VP degree track alone at a super strong program is very rigorous on its own, and there are only so many hours in every day! For this reason i like the idea of a double degree or major program that allows for five years. I second the idea of looking at Lawrence University, as well as some stronger LAC programs like St. Olaf, DePaul, DePauw, and don’t forget Vanderbilt. For a seriously academic minded student, some of the LAC programs MIGHT be a better fit; there are perhaps fewer musical “opportunities” (aka expectations ) for the Undergrad singer, and more time to do it all? I’d love to hear from parents of Double Degree students!
Hi @collegeexploration- a lot of questions there. Let me hit a few-
- I second compmom’s suggestion that your son put more thought into his intended degree path before going deep on specific schools. BM vs BA/BS vs both at the same time are all different enough from each other and have different realities in the undergrad experience they imply. Another important consideration to my D was single campus vs split campuses. Commuting is certainly doable, but it steals precious time, which is even more precious to music majors. He should think about how many directions he can realistically go in, how many places he can be in at the same time and do them all well and maintain his mental health. Some kids thrive on being super busy all the time, some don’t. Also he might want to consider whether he wants undergrad only, or with grad students, and small or large music school.
- Almost any BA voice program will be more like a boutique than the department stores of music training you have at a school of music or conservatory. That said, there are certainly BA schools with excellent voice teachers. The peer group may include plenty of talent, but won’t have the focus. Keeping the training up will have more of a DIY aspect to it.
- A couple answers to you practical points- at several schools, my D was able to apply to the Music school and the arts and sciences school concurrently and independently. Those included NU, Michigan, Oberlin, Eastman/UR, and BU. As I understand it, the admission processes were completely independent. She could have been admitted to one, both, or neither. At Rice, Vanderbilt and CMU, she had to apply to the music school only, but the application was subject to academic review by the main college admissions department. My understanding, though, is that there has to be a fairly significant academic deficiency for main admissions to overrule the Music school. It’s rare, but it does happen.
Northwestern/Bienen is one of the few Music schools that does indeed have an early audition/ED process, prescreens due in mid October, audition in November I think. A note of caution about that though- they do not defer, only reject or accept in that round, and the standards are quite high, as we heard they tend to keep their powder dry for the regular decision round unless the candidate is really a superior talent.
Yale and Bard do both have five year BA/MM programs; neither is open to singers, only instrumentalists. They both focus their vocal resources on grad students.
If he does pursue a dual degree, expect it to take at least one extra semester, more likely a full fifth year, during which at most schools his music degree would be completed and he’d be finishing up the other degree. They all (for good reason) front load the music degree.
A hearty congratulations to all on completing the marathon and ( those who are about to complete it.) Shout out to @vistajay, @NYsaxmom, @bridgenail , @SpartanDrew, @BearHouse, @dramasopranomom and many others. We’re all poorer for the process of traveling all over the country etc. but our kids are richer for it! From what I’ve been reading, they are all extremely talented and going to fantastic places to pursue their dreams.
I’ve been a fly on the wall since my kid busted me out…essentially figured out my screen name and got mad at me for mentioning HIS personal business. I’m thinking it’s safe to comment once again, since he committed to NYU’s music program for composition. All I have to do now is figure out how to pay for it! My appeals were unsuccessful and I came away with the understanding that all aid is essentially need informed at NYU which translates to no help for many. He’s excited about attending and is researching dorm choices. I dare not say any more.
Please let us know your daughter’s final choice SpartanDrew.
Congrats again and onward to the next phase…I’ll drink to that!
Congratulations @winjammer What an exciting place to study composition!
Congratulations to @vistajay, @NYsaxmom, @NYCMusicDad, and @astute12. Thank you so much for sharing your family’s musical college choices trek with us. I truly enjoyed reading your experiences. It brought me wonderful memories! Your kids choices are outstanding and they are the best choices for each one of your wonderful children’s circumstances. As we approach the month of May…I have buyer’s remorse?, go all and celebrate this wonderful moment. The stage is set to close the month of April with a bang when @SpartanDrew reveals their family decision.
@collegeexploration Luther College in Decorah, IA is another school you could look at with a fantastic music program! (A bit biased because I have a music degree from there, though 
)
It is possible to sequence things and do a BA then MM in grad, or BM then a master’s in something academic. Just in case it seems like too much to do for undergrad, all at once. I know kids who studied science or English or whatever and kept up their chops with lessons and extracurriulars, who then went to grad school for music. I also know kids who did music (including voice) for an undergrad who went on to, say, Medieval Studies for grad.
For admissions to non-BM programs such as LAC’s or universities without schools of music (including Ivies), it is a good idea to submit a music supplement to the common app, including a recording, a music resume, letters of recommendation from music teachers or directors, and even concert programs or media articles.
I’m trying to figure out what picture to use and all I can come up with is an empty wallet!
And on competitive conservatories (within universities) it does depend on how your kid “operates”. If he is fairly independent, he may be able to strike out on his own path and hold to it. And that’s OK for undergrad. VP takes a long time. So finding a school that will allow exploration is great.
But do note that many of these programs tend to enroll highly talented and highly ambitious students who may have a singular focus. And if your kid has been used to running with the big dogs, the need to compete to keep with the pack can be an issue. Your kid will be spending time elsewhere as their peers are solely focused on music. Is that OK? Is it OK to miss music opportunities for academic ones? If yes, no problem. My little dog would NOT be dropped by the pack! To keep with the best of the pack was a time intensive endeavor. Entering the school she was going to dabble…until she saw the competition…and then she was just running hard.
Still other kids navigate it differently. They may be fine taking their time to develop. So you are asking great questions to find the right fit.
I did a BA in Music at Luther College and am now getting my MM in Music History in a coordinated degree program with the MLIS program! I also know of several alum who have since applied for MM programs or have gotten into MM programs in voice and instrumental performance!
Thank you for the suggestion!
I appreciate the overview. Thank you. With the stronger academic schools (Ivies and others), does the recording just go to the admissions office, or should he make contact and send it to the music department head or the professor focused on classical voice? I imagine the admissions office staff listening and trying to distinguish between one voice and another (which, I imagine, would be difficult for them even if real differences exist)! Is there anything akin to athletics where a coach (in this case, the music head) weighs in with admissions to inform them of ability and that the department wants the kid, making admission much more likely? So many people sing and note it on their resumes or even send in a tape, just like thousands play soccer, but very few are at the highest level, and I guess what I am wondering is (1) how to insure that the liberal arts school admissions office knows that, (2) how much it matters, and (3) how to most effectively leverage that reality.
The music supplement goes to admissions. They may or may not consult with the music department. Some people do try to make contact with the department prior to acceptance . I personally think it is appropriate to seek information about offerings at a school but then let the application do the job of letting the school get to know the applicant.
@collegeexploration , I disagree somewhat with @compmom on this one. DEFINITELY send the music supplement through the usual channels; however especially in the case of a program where there is no audition for admission (or music merit), I would absolutely attempt to contact the primary instructor for your S’s instrument (this is voice, correct?). If you do not set up a trial lesson and meeting, your S won’t have good information about fit, and without an audition he is somewhat “invisible “ as an applicant. I would suggest trial lessons even if there is an audition for admission or merit aid. Just my two cents! I would certainly have my child schedule trial lessons with any faculty they are seriously interested in studying under!
Agree. Schedule a visit and trial lesson. The teacher will remember at admissions time.