@AmyIzzy my son did a summer program at USC Thornton and knew then that he wanted to go there. It was definitely his top choice, but we decided to create a “it so competitive that I probably won’t get in” narrative to get through the waiting. He was beyond happy when he got in!
@AmyIzzy, even though she loved the school and her teacher, she still had to be accepted and receive an affordable package. We could not asume this would be a given. She applied to 11 schools, and auditioned to 8 (7 live, 1 recorded). During the process however, Oberlin was always her first choice.
I think coloraturadad’s story also illustrates the fact that it can be hard, even with in-person visits, to really assess fit. When my kid was looking at schools, we spent 5 days at Oberlin, and then when accepted, another 4 days. We drove around looking at the sun set over the fields, stayed in houses that were part of a network offered by a local church so we got to know locals, attended concerts and observed the incredible level of student attendance and support, and ate in local restaurants where we saw professors at a table with several students, talking animatedly. If we had just done a one day visit, I think my kid would have walked away with a different impression. So how to assess when visits are limited?
We only visited 4 conservatories/schools of music and my kid only applied to those 4. That is certainly risky. For financial reasons, we included a couple of colleges with maximum financial aid, that had great music programs.
I think a starting point, aside from teacher and curriculum- and finances- can be location, size, and “vibe” just as in any college search, including non-music. City or rural? Small or large? Assessing the “vibe” is in some ways one of the most important factors, and for music, that includes if it feels competitive in a negative way, though some kids like that! Along with tours and info sessions, attending concerts and sample lessons are obvious ways to assess, but I think also hanging out on campus informally helps too: in the dining hall, the bookstore, on the green if there is one, waling around the campus and off campus, etc.
I have a question for those who have been on this thread: if you had it to do over again, how many schools would your kid apply to? The same? Did you find it helpful for your son or daughter to apply to so many or was it needless stress? Did it feel safer? Did applying to many schools help with bargaining? Would it be possible to do deeper research and get the number down? With the changes that happen in one year, was it wonderful to have so many choices for “it” in April of senior year?
Cool stories from you guys, now that everything is behind us and kids are all committed. I have to say our story is completely different! It’s funny, D knew what she wanted all along but never knew what school would give that to her. I had an idea of what I wanted for her (I was completely wrong fyi) and tried to coax her in that direction. Let me fill you in…
I’ll start by saying as many of you know, I absolutely LOVED Miami/Frost and wanted to see D end up there. I really felt the stars were all aligned for her to go there honestly. I poo pooed people who threw Miami under the bus saying things like “that’s where people go who want to teach…” and other things like that. The head of the vocal jazz program loved D and we loved her! Ironically, she studied at Western Michigan for her undergrad and studied under D’s Current vocal coach when she was at WMU so she rolled out the red carpet for us on every visit. I knew she really wanted D and used language like “I’m a big fan of your daughter” and other very flattering comments. The guy running the CAM songwriting minor also wooed D quite a bit and sent her nice commentary on her original music that he’d heard. BUT - D was very measured in her response to all of this. I was over the moon trying to sell this place to her but she never felt it there at all. It ended up being her second choice but that’s only because NEC didn’t come through with enough scholarship money. D always knew she didn’t want to be on a college campus and DID absolutely want to be in an urban location with a happening music scene. After her summer last year at Berklee, she knew she didn’t want to go there and didn’t accept the offered scholarship or apply at all. But she loved Boston so she added NEC. We hadn’t ever visited NEC prior to her audition day.
So she auditions there and comes out announcing it’s her top choice school! How in the world could she make that decision after spending literally maybe 4 hours tops there??? Well she loved Boston, really clicked with the 2 heads of jazz and jazz voice in her audition as well as the instrumentalists and loved how small it was and also elite. Our next stop was NYC and New School. Honestly, we threw that application in at the 11th hour because her Grammy camp musicians were all about NS and of course you can’t beat NYC for jazz and a happening music scene. BUT, we have been told that NYC schools are notoriously stingy with merit aid and she would need a LOT to make it happen. We tried to visit before her audition day, and did but after pulling teeth to get in touch with someone and finally got a quick tour from the head of admissions. (We found out later that his wife had just had twins and he had a toddler at home as well so fair enough that he was tough to reach LOL). D never met any of the faculty on that visit either. I think she came away feeling overwhelmed by the city and had her mind squarely on NEC. 2 days later she had her audition and came down smiling from ear to ear really animated and said it was the best audition she had out of all of them. Great way to finish audition season!
After that, she had New School in her top 2 with Miami a distant 3rd much to my sadness. I was really worried that the money wouldn’t be there for NEC or NS and was right with regard to NEC. That was a big disappointment to get that awesome yellow envelope in the mail saying “Bravo” that she got into this elite conservatory. Then we had to wait for a couple more days to get the letter with the merit award. I wish they would update their process to be like every other school that send the offer along with the decision. Everything was snail mail with them. Anyway, she went from elation to disappointment with the offer and after I did some legwork regarding appeals, we felt confident they wouldn’t come through with enough money so she declined the offer.
At this point she focused on New school. They made a very good initial offer which still wasn’t enough but we worked on the appeal which worked. She went back for admitted students day and spent 2 days after that auditing classes, meeting current students and faculty and visiting dorms. My husband and I came days after that (she was in NYC for YoungArts week so we didn’t have to pay for an additional trip for her) and we met with the admissions guy ourself. AT this point she absolutely KNEW this was where she wanted to be! It was the very first time she felt the perfect fit! And they loved her back and literally at 9:30pm on April 30th bumped her award to the largest of all of her offers and enough for us to be able to send her. 75% of tuition!
SO - a LONG winded story but every path is different so you just can’t know how it will roll out for your kid right now. Like your D @AmyIzzy, my D was totally sold that Berklee was her top choice this time last year. Then by the end of the 5 week program she had totally removed it. Not to diss Berklee, it’s a fantastic music school and location but D knew it wsn’t a fit for her but the end of the summer. She went into the audition process with a very open mind because she honestly didn’t know where she wanted to go at all. She still wasn’t sure right up until the end. Miami had made her the best offer prior to New School’s Hail Mary pass and she had it in her top 3 but did say to me “If that’s where I end up I’ll go there but I don’t think it’s where I’m supposed to be”. She felt that all along but I pushed my own agenda towards the school. You can’t blame me, swinging in those covered picnic table swings by the lake drinking sangria at The Rathskeller would sway any visiting parent! HAHA!
It all worked out in the end and as @bridgenail said, they end up where they are supposed to be. Even if its for a year and ultimately transfer somewhere else, there is something to be learned in the process for your kid. You just need to let everything play out throughout audition season and it will all come together. I would never have been able to predict this was how our path would go and that D would end up in NYC. But oddly enough when we visited I took a pic of the New School banners hanging literally right next to NYU banners and recalled sophomore year when we visited NYU and she announced that this is exactly where she wanted to go to college and I cringed knowing it would never be affordable. It also doesn’t have the jazz program she wants but she found it and her city and her location. Happy endings!
Just read @compmom ‘s comment posted when I posted my long response lol. I agree with all of what she said especially regarding the vibe. D knew what she was looking for and it was certainly NOT what I was looking for when thinking where she might be happy. To answer your question on number of schools, we could easily have removed probably 3 of them that we didn’t even visit. They were relative safeties and she got in everywhere but it was added work for her for applications and cost to submit that we didn’t need to do. But of course that’s hindsight. You don’t know what you don’t know with regard to the competition out there so it was hard to really determine they were actual safeties for D last fall. She applied to 8, visited 5 of the 8 and really had a strong top 3 in consideration with really just 2 being schools she knew she wanted to go to.
@AmyIzzy I will just add that my D did NOT know right away. In fact the school that she chose in the end was on the lower end of her interest level (maybe the bottom of the list). She did like the school when she visited, in general, but was still focused on MT as opposed to VP. She spent most of her time with the theater and MT people thinking it was a good safety option…and a school that could be a candidate…but she had no “moment” at the school. It was the first school at which she auditioned to get jitters out. But “a funny thing happened on the way to the ball”…she changed her mind about school size and major as she engaged with more faculties/schools during auditions. She did have a moment after auditioning at the large school (second visit) and then a small LAC (second visit) where it became obvious that a small LAC might not work for her. The “vibe” was not right. She was going to need a bigger campus to feel comfortable. That was in February. I remember the moment as she was auditioning at a LOT of LACs (at a notable cost to ME!). Oh well…at least she figured it out…and thank goodness I insisted on a variety of schools. That may not be necessary for you…but I felt that my D was definitely “still in development” on school choice so I did insist on some variety in the process. She did get some real “warm and fuzzies” from a teacher at the big school. She looked closely at curriculum…and was sold more by that and some love coming from the teacher than a moment at the school. I have said this many times on this forum but my D always has a “rock in her shoe”. So the idea that she would fall in love with anything would really surprise me. She is VERY good at finding small faults! So it can be personality driven too. While I think that a “moment” is really nice, I don’t think it is necessary to finding the right fit.
Nice posts about applying to a variety of schools, including for some, BM and BA, or different majors, or double degree as one option etc. Interesting change from MT to VP too. They don’t freeze in place senior year, that’s for sure: still changing all the time!
My D was born at NYU, literally. That should have been a strong clue. When she did NYU’s Steinhardt MT summer intensive, the head of the program said she didn’t have to audition–her work over the summer was good enough for him to offer her a talent admit. That should have been an even stronger clue (especially since she had strong academics–a 98 average and strong scores.)
But she still visited, auditioned and applied to six other schools. In the end she was very sure that NYU was the place for her–so I guess it was necessary to go through the process. She is now back at NYU for an MBA degree. This time she started her “why NYU?” essay by saying she was born there!
I am really loving these unique stories of how a college choice came to be. It’s such a huge decision-almost like choosing a spouse (and those stories are just as individualized with some feeling that instant connection to a current spouse and others having to give it more time before making the commitment. And some of those marriages involve “transfers” too where one reflects on “What the hell was I thinking?” Lol.)
My daughter has about 12 on her initial list. I know she wants to be in or near a “music” city, wants an artsy community, a diverse student body, and does not want a traditional campus. She doesn’t have a preference on program or college size yet but I personally see her in more of a medium sized school. Yes, Berklee-her current top choice-appears to be the perfect fit (for now) but there are several others on her list that might just grab her attention as we explore more. The good thing is that not too many offer contemporary/popular music programs so that helped us narrow it down from the start. Speaking of evolving, she went from a serious plan to study MT (since she was very young) to last year deciding that vocal performance, songwriting and recorded arts were stronger passions over theatre arts.
Based on her wish list, I could (and perhaps should) easily eliminate a handful right now that just don’t meet that criteria. But then I hear stories of students who never thought they’d like a certain college falling in love. I do feel she will need to narrow it down. However, she will need some safe choices on there as well as some known for decent merit aid. Ideally, I’d love to keep it to 5-7 auditions.
Hard to believe next year at this time I’ll be reflecting on how my daughter made her choice and hopefully feeling good about the path she decided to take. If you all survived the grueling process, I think we can too!
Hey all, I’ll chime in with a couple thoughts-
A year ago my D was interested in pursuing performing but also an academically minded student who didn’t necessarily want a completely preprofessional degree at the undergrad level, nor to be in an all-music-student environment, so she was considering BA schools and BM programs at colleges and universities that offered double major and dual degree options. Where there was the option to apply to both the liberal arts and music school parts of an institution simultaneously, she did so.
The audition process itself played a pretty big role in shaping her eventual choice. Unless they’ve been pursuing a professional career during high school most high school seniors, while they may have a sense they’re talented, can’t really know how that talent will stack up at this next level, as the pool is so much larger. In her case, there was positive feedback at every step of the audition process (prescreen, admissions, merit aid) that helped convince her that yes, she actually did belong in a BM program, it wasn’t nuts to pursue this now. After that it became a process of figuring out what she wanted to try to accomplish undergrad, which place would give her the best chance to accomplish it, and finding a teacher.
She had definitely had a very positive reaction to her initial visit to her ultimate choice, but by necessity had kept an open mind to all the schools she applied to, and I think could have gotten an excellent education at all of her options, and been quite happy at several of them.
I guess my main point here is that the audition process is almost universally described on this board as “crazy” and/or “grueling,” which might be scary to those going into it, but I’d encourage a different point of view. Look at it as an invaluable chance to not only learn more about the schools you’re considering, but about yourself. If you think about it, it’s really not a crazy process. Prescreens are necessary, as the institutions have limited time and resources available to devote to live auditions. Live auditions are necessary, because video just doesn’t capture all the nuances of live performance. The financial aid process seems opaque from the outside, but I’m sure is mostly if not entirely driven by well thought out practical considerations on the inside.
The “crazy” part is the randomizing factors that pop up a lot more for auditioners than for regular college applicants. These include colds and flu (for singers), snowstorms and other travel difficulties, and how your particular instrument/voice part etc. fits into that school’s needs in the year you’re applying, and how that might affect how much aid is available. All mostly out of your control (although singers should definitely seek out #dramasopranomom 's excellent post on staying vocally and otherwise healthy while flying to auditions and staying in hotels).
Fact is, the randomizing factors don’t go away after getting into college, the high stakes auditions don’t go away, the rigors of travel don’t go away, the strains on health don’t go away, the having to budget and manage the expenses doesn’t go away. Auditioning for schools is in a way the first chance to taste the life of a musician, with all its challenges, so embrace the chance to see how you respond to it. Take in all the feedback you get from schools, but also pay close attention to your own feelings throughout the process, and in the end you’ll know what to do.
Very well stated @NYCMusicDad!
My daughter went through some of the same issues. She thought she wanted to study music but wasn’t sure she wanted to walk away from strong academic programs entirely. We thought she had a solid list of schools by August including Northeastern where she could study music or other interests.
A few weeks into the application process she added a few purely academic schools to her list, just in case.
I agree that the audition process is part of the journey. This is the best opportunity to learn about the school and how well you fit in with the program. My daughter also treated each visit/audition as a blank slate with an open mind. It is an ongoing learning process. After several auditions my daughter realized that music was the only thing she really wanted to study. Things unfold and become more clear after each school visit/audition.
Her overall journey was not an easy one. She absolutely had a top choice, it was her best audition overall, and we both had that “this is the school” moment when we were there. However, the money side did not workout in her favor.
I once told a friend, this process felt like a game of poker. Each audition decision or scholarship revealing a new card. You may be holding an Ace but if the other cards in your hand don’t support that ace you have to play the best hand you can with the cards you have been dealt.
My kid applied to both BM and BA and ended up going to a school where academics were rigorous, for a BA, but did master’s and now doctorate solely in music (though students can continue to dabble in other areas on the side that might be relevant). I know others who did them in opposite order, BM then an academic master’s. I have to say, money was a factor for me but luckily my kid chose the best financial option without my input 
This is a great topic that maybe the administrator might want to separate it into a new thread. The interesting questions brought up by @compmom deviate into different answers. I don’t think there is a SOP on how to plan, schedule and handle amounts of college auditions. Too many variables such as the candidate, instrument, demographics, and circumstances will give a different set of answers.
In our case, D knew exactly what she wanted to study and pursue from a very early age. She is “Howard” from David Lane’s essay. She started singing and reading music before learning how to read sentences on her insistence of being a member of a folkloric and international renown children’s choir for twelve years or as I used to call it, her second school. This time consuming extracurricular limited her success academically by only being able to take high average academic classes through high school. Even though she was determined to go to Oberlin, we agreed that our plan would be to pursue a mix of stand alone conservatories (based on our academic concern) and colleges and universities with a music school/conservatory.
So responding to @compmom 's questions, in hindsight applying only to Oberlin and our local conservatory would have been just fine and would have ended up with the same result. Nothing is guaranteed in life so obviously we didn’t choose that risky option. Knowing what we know now, a more realistic option would have been to discard the stand alone conservatories and replace them with other academic end reach universities with fine music schools that meet 100% need such as Northwestern, Rice and USC to name a few. We are a family that qualify for grant need money based on our EFC so if accepted to these schools, she would have received a more acceptable financial package from them thus having more realistic offers.
The problem with most stand alone conservatories is that they usually only offer merit money. Based on my D’s conversations with her peers, high end sopranos candidates usually receive merit money in the 20-30K range. A merit scholarship in that range still makes the remaining balance unaffordable for the family with a mid to low end EFC. Again, applying for these universities were probably academic reaches for my D but a rejection from them would have the same end result as an acceptance from a stand alone conservatory with only merit scholarship. Needless to say acceptances to these universities had to compete with Oberlin which was still her first choice, so maybe all this is a moot point :), but hopefully helpful for a parent or future student reading this.
I have always felt that there are so many great nuggets of information in this long thread that may be hard for newbies to access. I would be willing to start a thread about what was/is/would be a good number of schools to apply to. This part of this thread also has info on finding a good “fit.” Or perhaps I could just put a new thread out there with title “how many schools to apply to?” and then reference pages 123-4. We need a table of contents for this thread!
Spartan Drew very helpfully started a new thread on getting scholarships, which people have found more easily.
S18’s pull to FSU was gradual. It was not on his radar at all a year ago. We did not know much about it other than its stellar reputation for music, and particularly voice. I had pushed for its inclusion, due to its OOS academic scholarships. He was pleasantly surprised by its leafy, traditional campus. After the initial visit, he said he could see himself there. But he was more excited about other schools, esp Miami-Frost. His FSU music admit came at the right time, after a few disappointments. Gave him great confidence. Miami was still very much in the lead after a great scholarship weekend experience that resulted in a full tuition academic award. FSU closed the gap after its scholarship weekend, which he was also awarded. FSU ended up being a full ride for him, plus a stipend for overseas summer study for three summers. Miami upped their financial offer at the last minute to also cover room and board, but by that time he had found a voice teacher at FSU he really liked: the deciding factor.
@compmom asked the interesting question of, in hindsight, how we felt about the number of schools our child applied to. I have really mixed feelings. She applied to 15 schools. She auditioned live at 8 and 1 via video. She also had three non-audition schools. However, one was a UC and two were CSUs. So it did not require extra applications. Just extra money (yikes). At one university, she passed the prescreen but decided not to audition once she saw the campus. At two of the universities, she applied but canceled her application prior to auditioning. I will add that 8 auditions was exhausting - mentally, physically and financially.
When all was said and done there were only six real contenders. I sometimes wonder if we had shown her the options before she applied if we could have limited it to those six. They were all large state schools. All had nice campuses. All had a relaxed vibe. She felt good at all six and, surprise, had good auditions. However, my anxiety would have been through the roof. Three were UC’s (all competitive admits), two were CSU’s (both competitive admits) and one was ASU (out of state). I didn’t feel that any of them worked as a safety especially given her academic record. My anxiety would have been unnecessary, however, as she got into five of the six. Sigh.
It is hard to second guess her decisions as the process has played out well for her. The journey of whittling down those initial 15 to 6 to 1 has been life changing for her. And given the family something to experience and celebrate together. However, if I were to advise her again, I would have (1) visited more “types” of schools prior to applying to help her identify what she wanted and (2) limited it to 8 applications.
Now graduate school? That may be a different story.
Good point about visiting. We did visit before applying, and that is how we got it down to 4 conservatories and 2 colleges. One of the colleges was a pretty certain safety, all the other schools were very competitive.
This was a decade ago so I am feeling a little quaint
For grad school, my kid applied to only two, after visits and meetings with faculty. At that point, at least for her field, the range of options is more limited because, ideally, you know exactly what you want to do and who you want to study with.
Hello all - I have a question that I hope some of you can answer. I have my underwear in a twist after seeing my daughter’s report card from her Arts School. She is a rising senior - so this report card will be part of her admissions package (I would assume). She was a classical bassist but we moved to LA last year so she could study jazz. She has received some accolades (most recently in the form of a full ride to Berklee Jazz Program this summer) - and she works her butt off. She has a teacher (a former jazz great) who loves her and is her mentor at the School. She got an “A” in Jazz Band - however, the comment in the box concerns me (and I suspect it will concern potential school - but want your feedback on this). It says “Work Habits: needs to engage in curriculum” and then “Needs to work to potential”. I know that our daughter works hard in this class so I’m confused and concerned about the affect that this comment will have on her college admissions". And if this is the case, why did they give her an “A”? They also gave everyone in her combo an award at the end of the year - except for her. She was upset - but shrugged it off saying that she knew that she gave it her best.
I sent the Music Director (not involved in the jazz program) an email and also her jazz teachers - that we are concerned and that she says she works very hard (which I believe to be true) - and that this comment comes out of left field. Her private jazz instructor says that she works hard and has improved a lot in the last year.
So - I guess my question is: will this comment in the box matter for college/conservatory admissions?
On another note (separate but related) - our daughter is the only female in her jazz program. The other female left to go to another Music School because her mother felt that the Director is sexist. Our daughter has told us some instances that sound that way (e.g. she said that she played a song that she wrote - and the Director said “you didn’t write that did you?”. And he questions her answers (even when she is right) but she said that she can “take it”. At the last performance - when he was introducing the seniors - he couldn’t remember the only female’s name (it was embarassing to say the least as she’s been there for 4 years). I know that there is sexism in the jazz world - and I’m not normally one to jump to that conclusion - but my gut is telling me that something is going on.
I sent an email to the Music and Jazz Director asking to speak to her two ensemble instructors as I see this as a serious comment that needs further clarification and that if she isn’t working hard - then we need to reevaluate her future in music. Am I overreacting? Do you think I’m missing something? BTW - my daughter is the first to say that she doesn’t put a lot of effort into her academic classes - and she and her friends goofed off in her Jazz Theory Class (it was online with no teacher) - but that she worked her butt off in this Jazz Ensemble Class. I’m just really sad for her and could use some perspective.
Wow @tripletmama I can say I would react the exact same way. First off, take a deep breath (and maybe pour a glass of wine…lol). I can certainly understand why those comments would be upsetting and I would absolutely get to the bottom of them. That being said, I doubt they would even show up on a transcript to college if I had to guess. Maybe someone else can chime in but I’m not sure. If they in fact do, then you need to get to the bottom of the comments and address them.
Honestly though, she has an A and everything else she will have on her resume including the full scholarship to Berklee and of course her talent will override the rest. How she interacts with faculty this summer will be a big factor and she will also need letters of recommendation for college apps which should come from her private teacher and other teachers who will undoubtedly have glowing things to say about her.
I feel as you do with regard to our choir teachers at D’s high school. They barely even make eye contact with us when we see them in public around the graduation party scenes. (D refused to invite them to her grad party jazz gig). I think they know they dropped the ball on D in a big way and we exposed them for it. We are all so happy to have that behind us and don’t envy your next year.
Schedule some face time with the directors, get some answers and bring your D in as well so everyone is all on the same page. But I honestly don’t think any of that will even be a ripple in the waters for her. Tell her to go knock em all dead at Berklee and that jazz ensemble is run by the highly acclaimed Teri Lynn Carrington so if your D impresses her, that will go a long way!!
Wow @tripletmama I would have the same reaction and concerns. I do have a few thoughts.
I highly doubt that the comments on your daughters report card will show up on an official transcript. FYI- you can always request a copy of her official transcript for your own records, then you could see exactly what it looks like. You may want to order transcripts from all of her schools just to have an idea of what her academics look like before starting college applications.
I also agree with SpartanDrew, if your instincts are telling to address the issues and concerns you have then you absolutely should. However, I would not think that you need to reevaluate her career in music simply based on those comments. Remember that is just one person in one school. You never know exactly what is going on there(think back to your sons early dance days). They could be just trying to motivate her to do more. My daughters college seems to only offer A- for arts classes. She thinks they believe that if they gave a student an A that would mean you have nothing you need to improve. An artist always has room for improvement so they give an A-. It will be interesting to hear what your daughters teachers have to say about their comments. Keep in mind that your daughter would not be at that school if she wasn’t a great musician nor would she have gotten the full ride to the Berklee summer program. I always tell my children, seeing things like this happen will teach them how to navigate future circumstances, personalities, opportunities etc.
I hope she has an amazing experience at Berklee this summer!