The Truth about Canadian Universities

College Search & Selection
1

<p>I was reading some of the threads about Canadian universities, and I was shocked at how inaccurate most of the information was. Also, I can't believe how many people bash Canadian universities! Here's the truth:</p>

<p>That whole "Canadian Universities are easier to get into" thing is completely untrue. As is the case in America, to get into a Canadian university you have to have a combination of good grades and extracurricular activities. Just ask any university, and they will tell you about their Admission process and how they review extracurriculars as well. All university applicants are told to complete an Admissions essay when applying to university and there are many awards that recognize incoming university freshmen for their extracurricular activities (the Millennium Scholarships, for example). </p>

<p>The top Canadian Universities do seem to require lower grades than the top American universities for admission, but high school in Canada is more difficult than high school in America. </p>

<p>It's ridiculous to say that the American Ivy League students are better than the top students in Canadian universities. Many Rhodes Scholarships are given to students at Canadian universities each year. Also, there are many people that graduate from Canadian universities that go on to graduate studies at American Ivy League schools. </p>

<p>With the acception of a handful, Canadian universities are very good and probably better than many American universities.</p>

2

<p>I agree that Canadian universities can very much be on par with their American counterparts. However, it's generally easier to get into McGill than it is to get into the Ivy League. </p>

<p>Consider this: </p>

<p>U.S. Student A has a 95 average. He's the captain of his mock trial team, interned at a lab, dabbled a bit in Math Olympiad, perhaps more. He wants to apply as a chemistry major. SAT score of 2200. </p>

<p>Student A is perfect for McGill. He's an obvious admit. He has good grades, has good extracurricular activities, exceptional SAT scores, and is a generally good student. At Ivies, that doesn't matter. Sure, those things get you through the door, but the Ivies want to see "passion" and want to see something "different." Getting into the Ivy League involves more luck than getting into McGill. </p>

<p>Just a note: McGill is probably the most competitive Canadian university (I think it's more selective than UToronto.) It accepted 43% of its applicants in 2003. Stanford's and Harvard's acceptance rates were both under 15% that year.</p>

3

<p>hehe. I don't know how you made up that generalization. Whatever works for you buddy. I know people who got into Harvard with 1900 SAT scores... The unpredictable nature can actually go both ways.</p>

<p>I personally would like to think of the application pool. US population tends to apply within the United States. United States population pool includes more applicants thus having an increased likely hood of possess more higher caliber students. The caliber of students applying to McGill and US schools don't differ, simply the amount. Which is why consideration for extramural factors such "passion, breath, depth" of extracurriculars matters more. The sheer volume of high caliber applicants forces admissions to take a deeper more crazier mindset when it comes to admitting ppl. Canadian schools simply doesn't recieve that many applicants in the first place...though I could be wrong. lol</p>

4

<p>Also: </p>

<p><a href="H">quote</a>igh school in Canada is more difficult than high school in America.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Proof? I wouldn't necessarily say that's true among AP and IB students. For example, there are IB schools both in Canada and in the US. Same curriculum, same tests, same IB Diploma requirements. Why would the US IB Diploma suddenly be easier to obtain?</p>

5

<p>
[quote]
Many Rhodes Scholarships are given to students at Canadian universities each year.

[/quote]

You realize Rhodes Scholarships are awarded geographically, don't you. That is, Canada receives a certain pre-set number of Rhodes Scholars every year, as does the U.S. If most Canadians stay in Canada for school, it's to be expected that the Canadian Rhodes recipients will generally come from Canadian universities.</p>

6

<p>I don't know any canadian including myself who submitted an essay or required EC's when applying to a Canuck school. Unless that person was applying for a scholarship. </p>

<p>yes, canadian schools receive high amount of applicants. for example U of T receives about 30,000 or more. Why so high? because of common applications. a students selects their top three choices and applies to them. then why are admit rates high? They really aren't. universities generally have an automatic acceptance figure they quote to high school admissions counsellors. Most students who apply know whether they will get accepted or not, so generally only those close to the admissions standards the university sets for their upcoming year apply, because they know they will be accepted. and many canadian schools will open up class spaces to accomodate more students if they meet the minimum admisson standards. that's why all the talk oflarge class sizes in first year. All of this has nothing to do of course with academic rigour, which top schools like Queen's mcgill and Toronto have in spades. but you won't be babied like you will in the Ivy League. see some stats below. I don't understand yield rates as I am not good at math. Do the admit rates quoted in U.S News rankings for the Ivies mean Yield rate or admit rate? if it is admit rate then Toronto is quite competitive and so is Queen's. Queen's admit rate would be about 9 or 10%. I can dig the figures up if anyone is interested.</p>

<p>Here are some stats on Toronto's admit rates:
2000-01 2001-02 2002-03
Acceptance Rate: 18.5% 18.9% 17.7%
Offer Rate: 55.4% 58.2% 53.9%
Yield Rate: 33.3% 32.4% 32.8%
Total Applications 20,551 22,084 25,682
Acceptance and Yield Rates, 2002-03
Arts, Science and Commerce on St. George Campus
Total Applications = 25,682
Registrations = 4,537
Offers = 13,851</p>

<p>taken from: <a href="http://www.utoronto.ca/govcncl/bac/details/ex/2004-05/exa20040913-11iii.pdf#search=%B4university%20of%20toronto%20acceptance%20rate%B4%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.utoronto.ca/govcncl/bac/details/ex/2004-05/exa20040913-11iii.pdf#search=%B4university%20of%20toronto%20acceptance%20rate%B4&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>you can see something about mcgill here. but again it's talking about yield rates. again, I don't know the difference between acceptance and offer yield and yield rate:
The</a> McGill Tribune</p>

7

<p>I'm not saying that top Canadian universities are worse than America's finest. Certainly in academic rigor and faculty quality, they are comparable. But it defies all evidence to suggest that they aren't easier to get into. Selectivity =/= quality.

[quote]
That whole "Canadian Universities are easier to get into" thing is completely untrue. As is the case in America, to get into a Canadian university you have to have a combination of good grades and extracurricular activities.

[/quote]

Actually, it's completely true. McGill accepts half of applicants (47% for the class of 2011) while Toronto, 2/3rds. The lowest I've seen, Queen's, has a 33% admission rate. While I'm not bashing these schools, it would be completely illogical to assume that the best Canadian universities are as selective as the best American universities that have a small fraction of their acceptance rates.

[quote]
The top Canadian Universities do seem to require lower grades than the top American universities for admission, but high school in Canada is more difficult than high school in America.

[/quote]

Most American (and I'm assuming Canadian) students don't aim for top colleges. Compare the two countries' pools that do. I doubt you'll find any noticeable difference in course difficulty.

[quote]
It's ridiculous to say that the American Ivy League students are better than the top students in Canadian universities. Many Rhodes Scholarships are given to students at Canadian universities each year. Also, there are many people that graduate from Canadian universities that go on to graduate studies at American Ivy League schools.

[/quote]

No it's not. McGill, usually considered to be in the top echelon of Canadian higher education, has an SAT average of under 1400 and an ACT average of 30. In this regard, dozens of American schools are higher.</p>

<p>Obviously there are going to be Canadian students who go to Ivy League schools. That does nothing to prove how Canada's best universities are as selective as America's best. There are also lots of Ivy League graduate students from 3rd or 4th tier state schools. One would not argue that those institutions are as selective as the top.</p>

<p>And Rhodes Scholarships are assigned geographically. It would be an administrative failure to not give any to Canadians (who presumably, end up at Canadian universities).

[quote]
With the acception of a handful, Canadian universities are very good and probably better than many American universities.

[/quote]

Given your generalized statement about how Canadian high schools were harder than American ones, it sounds like that you care more about Canadian honor than about arguing the facts. I want to see proof.</p>

8

<p>High schools in Canada are harder in the sense that in Canada an 80% is considered an A, so Canadians have to work just as hard for an 80% (or for that A) as Americans must for a 90% (the same A). I’m assuming universities understand that and judge applicants accordingly (I know American universities did for me). </p>

<p>I don’t know about the application for Americans, but I do know that for many schools Canadians aren’t required to write a single essay or demonstrate involvement in any extracurricular activities. I applied to McGill, U of T, UBC, Queens, Waterloo, and McMasters, and only needed to write essays for Queens and Waterloo (which were required, not just for a scholarship). Even then, it was more simply answering a few short questions; nothing like the application for American schools. That being said, I don’t think that the average student at a top Canadian school is any different (smarter or less smart) than the average student at a top American school. The application process in no way demonstrates that students are any less capable. </p>

<p>Also, I agree with ivyleaguer’s points above me; since the admissions process is mostly marks-based, students know what schools they can realistically get into, and apply almost exclusively to these schools. Nobody really knows the concept of “reaches” or “safeties” because it’s fairly easy to predict where you’ll be accepted and plan accordingly. This means that the acceptance rate might be lower, but that's simply because only the more capable students are applying.</p>

<p>Edit: SATs aren't required for Canadian applicants at Canadian universities, so this is a far from accurate measurement as it is most probably an extremely small sample size (I only know of 1 person who took the SATs and ended up at a Canadian school).</p>

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<p>I just woke up so my mind might not be working correctly. It's harder to get an A in Canada because you have to get 80% or better on your tests as compared to 90% in the U.S.? Am I missing something here?</p>

10

<p>No, it's equally hard to get an A in Canada as it is in the States. My point was that it's harder to get a 90%. A lot of people who don't know the Canadian grading system look down on Canadian students' grades becase the average % grade is lower. An 80% is a respectable grade in Canada, and not as much in the States, but that is simply because it's harder to score an 80 in Canada than in the States. Sorry if I was (or still am) unclear.</p>

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<p>That's ok. Just wanted a clarification and you gave it to me. :-)</p>

12

<p>hmm interesting opinions everyone. Personally, I believe the Ivy League (and other top selective schools in the US) are harder to get in than the top Canadian Universities. I say this as I am a Canadian student, aiming for the Ivy League down South. In school, I don't find many courses challenging at all, (other than studying for AP exams myself -again for US universities), I felt the desire to apply to US universities because I felt that there is no challenge in getting in Canadian Universities. I feel that a 90% average here (with all sciences and maths) is not very difficult to achieve. I do admit however, a 95%+ takes some work and effort. And thus for me, I know as a Canadian citizen, I can get in virtually any program in Canada without trying much at all. I would, of course, like to get over 95%, but that is only for scholarship and not admission reasons. I feel that top US universities are much harder to get in since they all require strong SATI, SATIIs, focused EC's, and great teachers' recs (did I mention you don't need anything for Canadian univs? just transcript and resume would be sufficient, some essays for some programs but nothing extremely rigorous). In addition, I felt that I learned a lot more from studying the SATI and SATIIs, than I did at school with English and Math courses (man all the grammar the reasoning hammered into me, and i still suck at it). To me, I feel that a typical student from a top US university is more well rounded because of the rigorous admission process (here, all I see is that people working their butts off for a 95% and do nothing else, why would they? EC's only take up time, 40hours of community service goes by in a flash, but a 95% avg would guarantee you to anywhere in Canada, ..k almost i guess, don't wana generalize too much)
Overall, I don't mean to bash Canadian Universities at all. I probably will end up going to one myself when I get rejected :D. I also do believe that Canadian Universities have high education levels, some are just as good as US universities. However, when you compare the top ones, I believe that the US has the advantage as they are, most of the times, best unis in the world.</p>

13

<p>In the case of McGill and the high admissions rate, it's because of CEGEP, a pre-university program that does a good job of weeding out bad students. Quite a few don't make it out, and the best apply to McGill and the US, of those that # if it's indeed accurate get in. A 31 CRC is very high (especially in Science), I only did 1 year but my friend in Wharton had a 33.</p>

14

<p>The overall experience at US colleges is different as well. With the exception of the HUGE state flagships, most US colleges are very small by comparison to Canadian schools. In Canada a LOT of students commute. Its just not at all the same social experience. Most Canadian schools are large and urban. That is fine if that is what you want out of a college experience. But if you want something more warm and fuzzy and close knit, then the US has the advantage.</p>

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<p>You guys really need to cut the egalitarian b.s. The top Canadian universities are NOT comparable to the top echolon of U.S. universities. There is no way that McGill or Toronto is on the same level as HPY. There is no shame in this. Only England's Oxbridge is truly comparable to HPY. The top Canadian universites are more comparable to UCLA and other large public schools in the U.S.</p>

16

<p>Ivyleaguer, from what I can tell, the Canadians use words differently than Americans do:</p>

<p>Americans:
Acceptance rate:% of applicants who are offered admission.
Yield rate: % of those offered admission who enroll.
no common word for it: % of applicants who enroll.</p>

<p>Canadians:
Offer rate: % of applicants who are offered admission.
Yield rate: % of those who are offered admission who enroll.
Acceptance rate: % of those who apply who enroll.</p>

17

<p>so the OP just made a fool of herself?</p>

18

<p>apple2pie9, you're right of course, but there are a few fields where they can compete with the best. Just today I was looking at a few of the most highly cited departments in the last decade, in a few life/health sciences fields, McGill and Toronto found themselves in the top 10-15 in 1 category, each. Whereas Harvard was in the top 5 in every category. Oxbridge doesn't come close to HPYS, the closest in Europe in terms of research in the fields I know is MPI. At the end of the day even the best Canadian HS and CEGEP students go to American colleges. Canadian universities have to balance funds and resources, compete for government funding, and these rankings reveal output differences more than differences in research quality, but it's an unavoidable reality.</p>

19

<p>millenniumscholarships.ca (Canadian scholarship) the website isn’t even working ? how am i suppose to apply :S ?</p>