The Truth About Minority Admissions.

Colleges and Universities A-Z Emory University
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<p>You can believe me or not, I really just made this account to post this.</p>

<p>Shedding some light on the truth about Emory as a black male here.
My SATs were 1680. I took the SAT twice and that was my highest score.
I did not even break 600 on the math section.
My ACT was a 23.
I am from the North-East.
My parents make 90k a year total.
I went to an average suburban public high school that isn’t ranked in anything.
My GPA was 3.6 unweighted, 3.7 weighted.
My listed major was Psychology (I did not end up going that route)
My extra curriculars weren’t great (I only won one minor award for something drama related).
I didn’t do varsity sports.
My APs were: 4 in AP English, 3 in AP Euro and a 1 in AP Gov (that last grade was after I got accepted).
My senior year I flunked Calculus and came close to flunking Physics (did not get rescinded).
My essay was really not great. I sent the same essay to a nearby school with 50% acceptance rate and got denied.
I didn’t face any unusual hardships in life.</p>

<p>I got into Emory. I really should not have. But I did my application honestly, so I really don’t know what to think. I don’t know if I really deserve it to be honest.</p>

<p>This isn’t to brag in the slightest. I've spoken to friends in BAM that have had similar experiences. This is the reality of affirmative action that people try to ignore. I think it’s incredibly messed up that I’m this under-qualified and got in. This is not to undermine the success of other blacks that get in. You were probably just as deserving as everyone else. What angers me is that I don’t want ANY reason for people to think that we get freebies because of our race. How can I want that when in reality, I am an example of that very thing.</p>

<p>Stop it Emory. This wasn’t about class. This was about the color of my skin.</p>

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<p>woah…</p>

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<p>You’re in now. Make the most of it, man. Use it as your fuel to succeed in life.</p>

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<p>For what it’s worth, I’m not a huge fan of affirmative action either. But, on the other hand, I don’t think anyone wants to go to a school that is 90% Asian. (Before people start blasting me, I said Asian because Asians generally have the best testing scores. Not because I’m racist). I don’t know how to fix it, but it needs to be looked at by the White House. </p>

<p>Unfortunately, repealing affirmative action is political suicide. So it’s not happening anytime soon. Kind of like repealing Black History Month.</p>

<p>You need to remember all the black people (and other URMs) who had similar scores and grades to you and were not admitted. Obviously, you don’t interact with them because they do not attend Emory. But their current status is what usually happens to people with your stats. The people you’ve talked to in BAM were the lucky minority who caught a break from affirmative action. Not the majority.</p>

<p>At the end of the day, you’re going to catch a lot of breaks because of your skin color. Whether that’s fair or not, it doesn’t matter. You might get an entry level job offer partly (or as you believe, almost completely) because of your skin color, but your mid-career salary will depend on your skills. As I said before, you’re in now. Use Emory to develop the ability and study habits you did not have in high school.</p>

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<p>Now, submit the same thing to Emory Secrets on Facebook.
I’m very curious as to the responses it gets.</p>

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<p>Also a general question to whoever reads this… Does anyone actually find this surprising? I thought everyone knew this…</p>

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<p>@ aluminum_boat</p>

<p>Affirmative action is tricky. College admissions take in account your roots and your upbringing, minority or not. That being said, Asians are minorities, too, but we’re not underrepresented in admissions. Of course, even as an Asian, I wouldn’t want to go to a school that’s 90% Asian. Affirmative action is a good thing, but is it fair that many of us who work hard don’t get accepted on the basis of our race? I honestly don’t know. </p>

<p>California’s recent SCA-5 proposes that CA is allowed to deny an individual or group’s rights to public education on the basis of race, sex, color, ethnicity, or national origin, which is like going back in history. It’s not passed yet, but of course, Asians are against it. </p>

<p>Anyways, our class president whose black, 2250 SAT, captain of track and key club got deferred from Harvard. I think we can all agree that college admissions are getting more and more competitive. </p>

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<p>@elitesound: Uhhhhh (don’t believe I’m responding now, but my sleep schedule has shifted such that I can wake up at 5:30), but I am actually more interested in how you are doing here than how you got in. Did you post this because you are doing poorly or are you just feeling guilty. As for being from a suburban high school not ranked in anything, that may be what helped you. If it was a competitive high school you would have been denied (because they would expect high standardized test scores). Also, while many URMs are admitted below the middle-50 (like everywhere), most are probably near 1800+. In addition, a “lighter” version appears to be applied to international students, especially those who apply early decision. It also occurs with some ethnicities of Asians (like Vietnamese and Cambodian students tend to come from lower socioeconomic levels. I know a Vietnamese guy who I attended middle school with who had a significantly lower score than I did and I am African American. I did well on SAT and came from crappy HS, and had good grades, AP scores, etc, and this person had much less and likely got in because of legacy. All of his siblings went here and 2 of the remaining ones are here now)</p>

<p>You are here now, how are you doing? Do you need help academically, what’s the deal? I feel as if you must have feel compelled to tell about this, because honestly, I’m sure we already knew this was the case for some people. It’s okay, seriously. You are not your freaking SAT score at this point. It may be getting to you, but all you can do right now is get it together and do as well as you can. Emory is a rather academically supportive environment and is not overly tough (yet, and probably never will be) just like many schools with AA. A person with a below “par” standardized test score can probably perform solidly at Emory with a change of attitude. And such a change of attitude may be beneficial. Even many of the people who did extremely well in HS need it! You were given an opportunity you were clearly not expecting. Take full advantage of it. Don’t throw away your tuition like a lot of people who felt “entitled” to a place like Emory. Some of these folks get here and act as if they don’t belong at this place. Even if they are the correct statistical caliber, they and Emory may have been better off if they attended elsewhere. </p>

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<p>I too wonder about the point of this post. If you are an applicant hoping to go to Emory, then why are you posting information that could diminish the school you graduate from? It would make more sense to think you were not a student and seeking to damage the school or minorities.
Colleges don’t just want to admit a diverse class, they want students to graduate. Admitting unqualified students would result in dismal graduation rates, lower school rankings, an unhappy student body, and possibly jeopardizing some funding. I think we can assume that the admissions office at Emory is smart enough to not admit anyone they believe can not succeed.
So assuming this is true- you got in. Congratulations. This is a great opportunity, but you need to be ready to succeed there. Instead of questioning why you are there, assume you are capable, and be the good student Emory believes you can be.</p>

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<p>Some of you are missing the point.</p>

<p>I can see why this probably wasn’t the best place to post this. I think every school does this to some extent, so this is not a knock just at Emory but maybe just to all higher education in general. Emory’s been great, I’m just sick of its over corrections.</p>

<p>I’m doing fine at Emory, as you guys said, high school grades are just high school grades for most people. I just can’t help but think that many spots are given as gifts to my race, taking away spots from actual competitive candidates. I think there should be a corrective for CLASS status, which is totally fine. But i think we ignore the class issue, and just unjustly make it about race.</p>

<p>I felt compelled to say this because of this part of my rant: “What angers me is that I don’t want ANY reason for people to think that we get freebies because of our race. How can I want that when in reality, I am an example of that very thing.” That’s the point in me posting that at 2 am.</p>

<p>It might be hard for you some of you to understand why someone would complain about a handout, but it’s patronizing and counterproductive to blacks progressing in general. </p>

<p>If you think it’s really detrimental to our school’s image that has other redeemable qualities, I’ll delete my post and just email admissions or something. I just felt compelled to share it somewhere and was wondering if anyone had similar feelings. Again, everyone suggesting I thank admissions for the process is completely missing what I’m saying. I shouldn’t feel guilty, I get that now. But I do think this selection is fundamentally wrong.</p>

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<p>Just to add: The idea that Emory wouldn’t want to pick minorities with bad grades because it would lead to bad graduation rates is completely true. I actually did not think about this.</p>

<p>However, considering this now, and considering my fellow minority friends at Emory, it actually makes me realize there probably were few candidates applying with higher credentials that were black. Hence the point in Emory choosing us. Which would make racists question the credentials of blacks even more. Look at the Obama transcript incident a few years back. I have no doubt that Obama had an amazing record. But how did so many individuals actually buy into this? Well, yes, it was because many of those people would look for any excuse to spew racism, but it was also because black achievement is usually seen as a handout. I feel there will be a harder push in schools if our students realize they aren’t guaranteed spots. I guess it’s hard to win though, because the opposite side of this (remember the student that posted the poem about UCLA’s “racism”?) will always exists. So the new purpose of this is to let people know that blacks like myself DO exist, and we can make it without your charity.</p>

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<p>I really don’t care. If you are doing fine here, you deserved it and you are proving it. Some of the higher stats. people are actually less deserving in my opinion. I personally think the whole admissions processes of today, whether it’s a race to get students with the highest stats. or seemingly random application of affirmative action. It all sucks. Most of the most selective schools for example don’t really need an average of 1350-1500 on the SAT to have a student body that can handle the academic environment. They are just doing it to please alumni and the ranking agencies. Perhaps if it were decades ago, I would be concerned about you being admitted into an elite university or one of the major technological universities, but now…not so much. Universities have migrated to a corporate model of educating undergraduates that mainly focuses on us as the consumer that constantly needs to be satisfied (having high caliber students is mainly to have bright students on campus who are self-starters and will do things on their own to make the school look good. The idea of the classroom education provided at most of these schools actually enriching lives or being trans formative on a large scale is essentially long gone). And in our and perhaps the last generation, giving us a high self-esteem plays a role. Given this, the amount of work or intellect needed to succeed or do decently at even some of the most selective universities has diminished. Even the places that still maintain rigor of content use a ton of grade inflation so as to make it look as if their students are actually far better than in the past (the only reality is, is that they performed better on an easier version of the SAT and got good grades in High schools with watered down curricula vs. the past in most cases). Other elements such as the tenure system and the focus on research at many of them certainly plays a role in further perpetuating this, but nonetheless this is the case. Because the standards of academic work at universities has attenuated with respect to the past at most institutions, I can honestly care less about the admission standards at most of these places. They are just a marketing tool at this point. Now-a-days even the qualified students who were admitted to these places are essentially being given a hand out. We get to come to schools like this and essentially play around for all 4 years if we want, while earning high enough grades to get jobs or get into professional or graduate school. I don’t buy into the belief that some of us deserve these opportunities for 4 year summer camp experiences that end with a prestigious piece paper more than others. And if so, people get here and act as if they didn’t deserve it. The fact that the state of higher education is even at a point where the best students don’t really want to learn and view university as just another credential that they want to earn as seamlessly as possible tells me that there are much more serious problems in higher ed than affirmative action. The state of k-12 certainly isn’t helping :frowning: . </p>

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<p>Separate what you say into paragraphs. I am not reading that blob of text.</p>

<p>To the OP: Re-read my first post. And then the last paragraph of my second post.</p>

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<p>@aluminum_boat
Yeah, what you’ve said pretty much covers our current state.
It doesn’t really offer any solutions, as this is messy. I think the only way to see a change is if it came from blacks being vocal, as anything else is just dubbed as racism it seems, like you said.</p>

<p>@bernie12
The comparison to a corporation functioning for customer satisfaction is spot-on. I still don’t think that means we should sweep this under the rug, though. </p>

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<p>This post truly saddens me. Whether its real or not, I feel compelled to address it. </p>

<p>“I don’t know if I really deserve it to be honest” </p>

<p>OP, you deserve it. Believe that. Anything else is a hindrance to your success. You will have far more doors closed to you than opened because of your race. If a door opens, walk through it. And walk proudly.</p>

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<p>Exactly. If I (or any other non-black) said anything about this, we’d be considered the most racist people on campus. People wouldn’t listen to what we were saying; they’d just default to “aluminum_boat is racist”. </p>

<p>Hell, even blacks being vocal about this would be taken very poorly. I don’t claim to be an expert, but I’d bet it would go something like “XXXX has been white-ified and is no longer ‘black’”. Whatever the hell that means.</p>

<p>Bernie… Colleges exist to make money. Not give handouts of education. Contrary to popular belief, Emory is selling a product in order to profit. This is the same for every school in the world. So, I’m sorry. I don’t blame Emory in this case. They’re in it to make money, and if this is the best way to do it (take high scores so they stay up in rankings), then they should do it. Education has never been for the sake of learning. It’s always been the sake of wielding the degree to find a job. Of course purists like you exist, but you are in the minority.</p>

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<p>The OP’s statement is a result of basic facts - a couple years ago an article, using college board data, pointed out that less than 1,500 black students scored above 700 on ONE section of the SAT. That means a whole lot less scored 700 on at least two sections and only a handful did on all three sections. </p>

<p>Simple, schools cannot accept high scorers that do not exist; they accept the highest of the pool that applies to their school. Therefore, with 2,200 black students in the top 20 schools alone, it must be true many are like the OP because not all top scoring black students apply to the top 20 schools. I would guess many do not care to be there and go where the merit dollars are.</p>

<p>Schools cannot accept applicants that never applied, and fundamentally, colleges cannot create applicants with scores that do not exist. </p>

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<p>Aluminum…It definitely is selling a product in order to profit and it is optimizing the profit by minimizing the costs…You figure out the costs (or things that may increase them) on your own. I was commenting on highered in general, not just Emory. The state of highered is such that AA is perhaps the least serious issue that should come to mind. If a college is going to sell an extremely expensive product, it should be really good and actually mean something, especially if it’s education. This isn’t something comparatively trivial like a very expensive car. The future of nations and the world as a whole at least, in part, depend on how well educated we are as the problems of today are very complex (not say they weren’t before, but curtailing things such as the consequences of climate change are problems that cannot even be dented by those who received educational experiences full of mediocrity). </p>

<p>Highered institutions (especially the “better” ones) always earned a profit, but likely did not always exist for the sole purpose of profit (after all, most do still claim to be non-profit). It’s not looking that way anymore (I disagree with you: Many private institutions, for example, started with values that compelled them to educate well just because…Even if the motivation was derived from some sort of religious orientation. Did they have an agenda, yes. But at least there was some goal and legit reason for educating well that went beyond profit). Some would claim that the value and quality of even some of our best institutions has declined (some sorts of evidence tend to support these claims in some capacity and I do trust some of them) and yet we’ll pay far more for such a product. I mean seriously, colleges can basically get away with only attracting us using the quality of their amenities and facilities. I don’t think this was always the case as these used to be quite crappy at the most selective schools in America for example. All the additional money students (I mean their parents) spend today is basically so that we can enjoy a sunny day at any school’s equivalent of the Clairmont rec. center. We don’t request more than comfort and a feeling of exclusivity and privilege. In this environment, I guess our values voted and the marketplace moved along with them. </p>

<p>And I still stand by the “hand out” comment. Most students pay lots of money, nothing is really expected from us…in a sense, this is a handout. Sometimes attending a selective institution (especially many of the private schools) is like paying the extra money to obtain the pass that allows one to skip the lines at 6 flags. That’s what I mean by “hand out”, but we payed for it right? Even if there is no evidence that we are particularly better educated by these institutions than folks are at some less selective places (and the difference between most selective privates vs. selective publics is a essentially nothing), many will get a “bump” for just paying their money, attending, benefiting from all the soft classes and grading we have, and then obtaining the expensive piece of paper that claims that signals “my education was better than X” at the end. We of course know that even at these places, the last claim is hardly true. We basically earn our way to and pay (thank goodness me or my parents didn’t have to pay for this. Shout out: I thank all the students at schools like this who waste their parents money on a softcore educational experience, for funding the bumpy, but overall incredible experience of yours truly! :). If you don’t know how to get something great out of this other than the endpoint, there are some people who do) for the privilege of being at places like these, not the education. But again, it is at least partially our fault I guess. </p>

<p>Anyway OP: You said you’re doing fine here, so you do deserve it. Now you need to just make your experience worth 60k a year. You can get so much more out of Emory and similar schools (or any school) than just a job or a coveted position in graduate or professinal school. You have been given an opportunity just as everyone else who you view as “more qualified”. Do not squander it on crap that costs less than 250k! Don’t accept or settle for mediocrity that can be generated by various elements of Emory. While these places may not actively try to develop and educate you, you can easily do so on your own efforts. There are faculty, other students, and various elements in place that do still support those values and may make almost worth that much (or perhaps priceless, if you’re lucky). </p>

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<p>This is shocking…most black students who got into Emory this year and last year that I know scored in 1900s or above on the SAT…I’m the lowest I know of</p>

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<p>I can’t even tell where you all are speculating or know something.
It’s not all about stats. Not as simple as all about race, yay or nay.
I’m doing fine at Emory. Then they knew what they were doing. That applies whether or not you are getting academic support.
Now your job is to do the best you can and move successfully through life. Not to dismiss this. Good luck.</p>