Congratulations @ShouldBeWorking, you are in the final lap of college admissions! Two excellent choices!
“And, TRIGGER WARNING, the girls are noticeably cuter at SMU.”
Ah, my D must have been studying in the library the day you guys visited ND. 
^^ Oh yeah, there was one really cute girl holed up in the library. That must’ve been her.
No school is.
I have direct experience - one kid who attended an elite almost-Ivy & another who graduated from an in-state directional, both poli sci majors. There is no question that academics were more demanding at the elite school … but DD was there with plenty of need-based aid. The elite private easily would have been worth +$10K a year… but not the 10x differential in tuition that would have existed had we been full pay. And despite weaker academics, my DS ended up with an amazing opportunity that would not have been attainable at another school. Both kids got jobs straight out of college – I think my public-school son’s first position paid a little more. At any rate, he was earning more a year out than she was. Both kids went on to pursue MPA degrees – different schools, son at an in-state public, daughter at a pricey private. The first year of my D’s program I was amused to discover that she was being taught with materials prepared by prof’s at my son’s school. Both kids are now employed. Despite similar majors, very different jobs. DD is carrying much more debt than DS.
It’s o.k. to be parent. It’s ok to say no- as in, “I’m sorry, we are very proud of you but we just can’t afford for ND.”
I said no to each of my kids’ first choice schools, as simply as that: “That’s too much for me to pay.” I guess one advantage of being raised by a single mom is that the kids get the message very early on that when mom says she can’t afford something…it means she really can’t afford it.
On top of that, if your son aspires to a business degree, then he really ought to be able do a simple risk-benefit analysis and figure this one out. Maybe you should give him a spreadsheet and ask him to lists the pros of each school and assign a perceived dollar value to each. Can he come up with a set of features at ND that justify that extra $100K?it
I gave my kids enough leeway at age 18 so they could at least feel like they were part of their respective decisions to turn down the pricey first choice colleges… DD had the opportunity to visit the school and attempt to negotiate for more aid --but it never really was their choice. The Mommy Bank had its limits, no matter what their preferences were. I’m just fortunate enough to have sensible kids who could see the light of day when it was pointed out to them.
A CO resident here. A year ago around this time, we were faced with a very similar decision that OP is dealing with right now. I was in a similar FAFSA situation as the OP with a son also with similar academic records. Prior to jumping into the whole application processes, I told my son that we cannot afford to pay $60-70K a year for him to attend any OOS colleges. We had saved up just enough 501 college savings for him to attend an in-state college for four years without incurring debt. We had a long talk about this, so when time came to make a decision to attend CU-Boulder, it wasn’t a big deal for him to accept that. Having some of his best friends from his high school to attend the same school also helped. But what helped the most was that he had a favorable impression of the school during the orientation. He’s now very happy with the choice of school, staying at one of the RAP (Residential Academic Programs) honors dormitories with one of the CU-Boulder Presidential Scholarship the school offered. Being a CO resident, he was able to receive credit in the amount of $75 per course hour, which also helped the cost down. He can also graduate about a year early with some of his high school IB course credits that he received.
Two daughters of our family friend also attend CU-Boulder both majoring in Business. Last I heard, their tuition is all paid for by Chipotle which apparently has a scholarship program for business majors. I think they just have to work for Chipotle some hours a week during the school to qualify for the scholarship. My son’s concentration is pre-med (they call it pre-health), so no such scholarship opportunities.
One of my son’s best high school friends, instead of opting for a less costly in-state college, decided to attend UC Berkeley at full cost. I have never envied this family’s decision nor do I ever regret that we made the decision that we made. Knowing all the debt that my son will have to incur when he enters a medical school, I was dead set on not having any debt while he’s in college. To me, unless a college degree is terminal, i.e., go straight to a professional job and not onto graduate school, it really doesn’t matter which undergraduate school you attend, in most cases. It’s more important that our kids do well in undergraduate in preparation for great graduate schools than to attend a prestigious private undergraduate college only to attend a mediocre grad school. In most of professions, it’s the graduate degree that really counts. My primary care doctor graduated from Princeton, but he makes the same amount of money that another doctor, his colleague in the same network, who attended CU-Boulder as an undergrad, makes.
My personal advise is not to sacrifice too much financially and not to get too hung up on which college to attend, as long as the son doesn’t find a particular college a good fit.
Yes to all of this. And each school has its own essays, which require considerable effort.
You also had better formally prep for the GMAT. You have probably forgotten most of the math.
@calmom Thank you for your insightful reply. That is exactly what I’ve asked my son to do, if he wants to try to make a case for ND. Something tells me, he may come to my conclusion before the presentation. He’s smart.
@TiggerDad Not sure if you are aware, but we too (OP) are a Colorado family. In fact, I am a CU-Boulder grad. S received a scholarship to my alma mater as a Boettcher SF and Esteemed Scholar, making CU very affordable for us. But I still feel SMU is a better fit. And it’s time for him to experience more of the world away from home.
How about Case Western? Putting aside the idea that you may be taking out a crazy amount of debt. University of Minnesota isn’t a bad deal, either – but they are starting to raise their OOS tuition, I think it is going to go up $3,200 per year starting next year.
^^^ Brrrr. Wish my S fully comprehended the bitter cold at ND. The weather was pretty nice when we visited.
Between the two. SMU all day, every day. Unless ND is affordable and it doesn’t sound like it is, I can’t see paying $100k more for.
Better weather, better opportunities, more affordable what’s not to love.
@ShouldBeWorking I’m new to this thread, but interested as it is somewhat similar to our situation in that ND is definitely more expensive that our son’s other option. Both very good schools, but cost is definitely a factor.
Just to clarify, are you saying that SMU would be $100,000 cheaper over 4 years AND he would be getting his Master’s as opposed to a Bachelor’s from ND?
That is one option, as he will presumably enter SMU with 30+ credit hours from AP and IB, effectively allowing him to finish undergrad in 3 years and immediately complete a 1-year Master’s in Data Analytics in the fourth. Of course, undergrad scholarships would not be available to finance that master’s year.
Other options are to use the freed-up hours to double major (such as BBA in Business and BS in Statistical Science) or minor in same. (I don’t think I’d encourage him to try to complete BOTH a double-major in three AND an MS in the fourth year.} Then figure out post-grad later, which will involve several years of pre-application work experience if it’s an elite MBA.
At ND, it wold be a straight-up Bachelor’s from Mendoza with a “supplementary” major in a math/statistics.
@ShouldBeWorking So the $100,000 figure was assuming 4 years of Undergrad at both institutions and the savings would be less if the 4th year at SMU would be at the Grad level?.
^^^ Yes. Which is why I’m inclined for him to use all his undergrad scholarship years to graduate rock solid in a double major rather than the accelerated Master’s plan.
I’m willing to pay more for my son to go to Notre Dame, but I’m not sure how much more. I believe my son will have a better college experience at ND. The prestige of a ND degree certainly will help land a job. The ND alumni network is certainly amazing. Am I willing to pay $100,000 more, No. Am I willing to pay $50,000 more, yes. In our situation, somewhere in between there, things get fuzzy.
^^^ Honestly, if ND had come through with a delta that was closer to $50K, I probably wouldn’t be on this thread. If ND were even $5-10K more per year, I’m going with the name. And let my kid discover the brutality of an Indiana winter firsthand.
But every top 100 school seems to have a case to be built for it. For instance, it might surprise you to learn that SMU is ranked tenth in turning out CEOs of major corporations. Harvard is #1 and Stanford #2. I’m not making this stuff up.
@ShouldBeWorking Yes, it does surprise me. I eventually found the list, and while it is something that SMU can certainly be proud of, it’s hard to draw much correlation to the typical undergrad. The sample size is simply just to small.
SMU is at #10 with four Fortune 500 CEO’s. Numbers 10 through 12 on the list all had 4 CEO’s, numbers 13 through 19 all had 3 CEO’s. Purdue was ranked #18 one spot ahead of Michigan. I don’t think any sane person would suggest that Purdue’s business program (even though they have a few ranked programs) is in the same galaxy as Michigan’s.
Edit: OK I’m sure I’m exaggerating the whole Purdue Michigan thing a bit, but you get my point.
@GraceDad Yeah, I’m not sure this ranking falls into the category of “statistically significant.” The methodology is usually flawed at best and engineered at worst. Have you ever read about the methodology of USNWR, for example? We could go on and on about the relevance of rankings. My solitary point is that SMU does have business credibility in the pantheon of some elite colleges.
Just goes to show Frank Bruni was onto something when he said, “Where you go is not who you’ll be.”
PS. I hadn’t bothered to drill down to the source for the article. Will you please forward it to me?