Yes, that was my kid. The had always thought he was much more of an MIT kid than a Harvard kid. MIT rejected him. He really enjoyed his accepted students weekend at Harvard. He was shocked that actually there were plenty of kids just like him there. (And it probably didn’t hurt that we ran into a young woman who had been a year ahead of him in high school who we ran into who told him he should come.) He made the decision on April 30. I don’t think it was wrong for him, but I think he’d have done fine if he’d gone to Harvard as well. He might have ended up a bit more well rounded, but he loved CMU and he’s in his dream job. I can’t complain!
@pizzagirl I wasn’t suggesting UChicago etc… were a tier down academically. Just that they were just a little bit less of a reach for a high stats unhooked white kid. With high stats, demonstrated interest and killer essays, he felt like he had a good shot at UC, Northwestern, Michigan, CMU (not CS). And he was right. He got in. That same strategy wasn’t going to do much for his chances at HYP or S. He didn’t win any national awards, wasn’t recruited, etc… Point is he felt like he had maybe a 20-30% chance at those schools and that made it worth a trip. A 5% chance at HYPS wasn’t worth flying across country for. And in the end, he fell so in love with UC and got in EA that he never did the apps for the other schools.
@Marian it’s not that I wouldn’t “permit” him to pick Duke, UC, or CMU over HYPS, it’s that I didn’t think it was worth the trouble of visiting for a 5% chance. If he had gotten accepted we certainly would have visited and he could have figured out which one fit him best. We’re full pay but he picked the schools he wanted to apply to and I told him were fine paying for any school that he could sell us on. Except ND and Ohio State. Told him he was on his own if he wanted to go to either of those.
Interesting message to him. Will pay full freight for all but 2. Those you will pay nada. Given what you said about the stats, there would probably be merit $ from OSU but still it’s not worthy of paying acting to attend.
Interesting message to him. Will pay full freight for all but 2. Those you will pay nada. Given what you said about the stats, there would probably be merit $ from OSU but still it’s not worthy of paying acting to attend.
I’m a petty and small minded 3rd generation Michigan alum. Just thought there really wasn’t anything so compelling and special about those two schools that he couldn’t find in one of the other 3998 colleges in America. Maybe it was selfish to limit his options but I didn’t want my oldest child to attend a school I have despised since birth.
An confused. Did he apply to those 2 schools? Or were you just kidding? Can’t tell tone sometimes.
He didn’t. Honestly I probably would have caved in if he really wanted to try ND. I even offered to drive down there while we were visiting Chicago and NW. Fortunately for me and the extended family he decided on his own that there were enough other fish in the sea. OSU is another story. The loathing there runs deep. Can’t tell you how sad I would be to have someone walking around my house in scarlet and gray.
The OSU - Michigan thing is real. When I moved here i couldn’t believe it, but my Ohio-raised kids wouldn’t even wear certain colors to school. Elementary school.
We had the most stressful April possible it seemed. D had acceptances from Michigan, USC, Tulane with $, Rochester with $, Colorado College and Northwestern. April was full of Senior activities, and she was flying to Rochester on April 18th. Well, we had the biggest rain event ever and our town flooded and no planes were getting to Rochester. There was just no time to reschedule. Mother Nature took Rochester off the list. Your son has some great options, but I can see more things evolving over the next few months.
There were several goodies offered at each school, not money, but opportunities that didn’t appear until April. USC had a special science program for a limited number of kids and Northwestern offered a spot (with stipend) in a research lab guaranteed for Spring of Freshman year. As you said, it was a good problem to have, but there is very little time in April.
Update for anyone who cares: Trips booked in March for SMU, Vanderbilt and Notre Dame. More to come.
@gluttonforstress , I totally understand, also 3rd gen Michigan. We have so brainwashed our child that he refused to apply to MSU or OSU even as safeties. If he gets into an Ivy or Vanderbilt the choice vs Michigan in-state would be more difficult though. I am also of the belief that it is far better to attend the in-state flagship (especially if it is Michigan, Cal, UNC, UVa, GT or similar) - you paid taxes to your state for years and years so why forgo the benefits? Better to graduate undergrad AND grad school debt free. $100K saved in undergrad buys a top 10 MBA or half of an MD.
On this planet in 2016, $100K will definitely not buy you a top 10 MBA. Twice that amount (or maybe a bit less) will. I know this because one of my offspring is currently in a top 10 MBA program.
Sadly, for many (especially the proverbial doughnut hole family or those whose children fail to gain admission to full-need-met schools), the in-state flagship may NOT be the least expensive option, regardless of how many taxes you’ve paid over the years. I’m thinking of schools like Penn State and UIUC.
That’s why a lot of kids take the merit money at OOS flagships way down in the rankings.
^^^^ Agree with Marian. One of my kiddos also applied to MD and MBA programs receiving acceptances with COAs well in access of $100K. With rates rising so much from year to year it is much more expensive than most people anticipate. Take a look at some of the top MD and MBA programs tuition and fees taking into account living expenses in some of the most expensive areas in the country.
So expensive…much more than undergrad.
Kat
You also need to take a look at what it takes to get into these Top MBA programs before deciding that your kid will end up there (because he or she wants it so badly?)
GMAT scores are well correlated to SAT scores. The top business schools take kids with top grades, scores AND quality work experience post-grad. Recommendations are extremely important and the top schools ask for one from your boss, i.e the person who sees you 55 or 60 hours a week, not a professor who saw you for three hours in a packed lecture hall.
You don’t think people end up at marginal MBA programs because they thought, “Hey, XYZ college offers an MBA, why bother with Wharton?” They end up at these programs- which cost a fortune by the way- because they couldn’t get INTO Wharton or HBS or Chicago. Not because they prefer a program with weak admission standards and low graduation requirements. Or a program which gives lots of “life” credits- your kid may have had a fascinating life but that is no substitute for a mathematically rigorous course in operations research or econometrics. The low-end MBA programs don’t require these courses (and some don’t offer them) because guess what- a not-trivial percentage of their students couldn’t pass them. So why bother?
@blossom In preparation for a road trip to SMU, Vanderbilt, Duke and Notre Dame in a couple days, I was re-reading this thread. I want to thank you for your advice in post #62. Based on that, S has delved deeper into his courses of study and now is more focused on applied mathematics and statistics.
He’s not jettisoning the idea of B-school entirely (where available) but is fortifying the idea with either a math supplemental, concentration or double major. For instance, it seems common at ND to do Information Tech Management major (analytics concentration) with Applied Mathematics & Statistics supplementary major. Duke: Mathematics major with Statistical Science minor or vice versa, and so on.
According to my research, he would be well served to pursue math, stats, linear geometry sort of study for big data – even if he were to decide to go for an MBA down the road. Thanks again for the guidance.
Now cross your fingers for him, as Vanderbilt decisions come out today, and probably Duke, Stanford and USC by the end of the week.
@ShouldBeWorking, not sure when you will arrive there but Notre Dame has a short Easter Break from Friday through Monday.
^^ He has an overnight there with a student in one week. We made sure to avoid any breaks.
Just returned from final college visits and thought I’d update all who may be interested. Since last post, S was waitlisted at Duke and Vanderbilt so, moving on. Rejected by USC and Stanford. Oh well, no one expected to get that last one. Now it looks like the horse race is between Notre Dame and Southern Methodist University. They are more similar than one might expect.
S liked both experiences but is still leaning slightly towards ND (I think he is irreversibly enamored with the name and football program.) All things being equal, it’s hard to argue that ND is not the academic frontrunner, and I might lean towards ND too. But there’s more to it than that, and SMU seems to make more sense for his undergrad. Put simply, I’m not convinced ND is worth $100K extra in COA after scholarships.
Both are top 20 undergrad business programs – admittedly Mendoza is higher than Cox – but both are very respectable. Notre Dame is clearly better known outside of Texas and its surrounding states. Both are beautiful, albeit different, campuses. One is in the Sun Belt and the other comes with a winter that cuts to the bone. South Bend, in a word, sucks. It is an ugly island in a sea of nowhere, relegating kids to the ND bubble and internships to summers. SMU is locked into burgeoning Dallas for internships and access to top companies. We have family in Dallas, plus it’s a 2-hour plane trip from home. Notre Dame is a day of travel on each end of the trip. At SMU, he will likely start out as a sophomore, allowing him to comfortably double major in Business and Statistical Science or Computer Science or straight up Math. At Notre Dame he will undoubtedly enter with less AP/IB credit, but still could manage a major in Business and add a “supplementary” in (probably) Applied Computational Math & Statistics.
At SMU, he is special (accepted into BBA Scholars as one of the top 100 students) although certainly would not be the only smart kid. SMU Cox is ranked #8 among “Schools for Geniuses” in the most recent Bloomberg Businessweek survey, FWIW. At Notre Dame, he is one of many, although I do believe they, unlike many a large public institution, do have a culture of individual attention and classes taught by actual professors. And, TRIGGER WARNING, the girls are noticeably cuter at SMU.
tl;dr: My gut says SMU and save the difference for a prestigious grad school. Now, the wait for him to come to the same conclusion.
I feel ya. Similar decison making going on in our house too. Good luck!