The What if...

<p>So I have 2 more auditions to go, Michigan and Elon.
But today I received my second rejection, from U Arts. The other one was from Penn State. But those are the two auditions where I felt I did well and where the auditors actually complimented me on my audition.
I'm really worried now that I won't get in anywhere. I mean, I've applied to Muhlenberg and I've already gotten in academically to Muhlenberg, but I want a BFA. and I just feel that if I get rejected from all the BFAs it might mean that I'm not good enough.</p>

<p>clay, I am really sorry that you did not get accepted to PSU or UArts. Hearing “no” is never easy, but it’s even harder to take, I am sure, when you felt you went out there and did your best and you like those programs a lot and can imagine yourself at either of those two schools.</p>

<p>As you said already, you have two more auditions to go. That’s two more opportunities to impress the auditors. Try your best (I know it’s easier said than done) to make those auditions a clean slate; in other words, don’t think about what’s come before and just do your best at what’s in front of you.</p>

<p>It’s great that you have already been accepted academically by Muhlenberg. (Did you apply early decision? I didn’t think that Muhlenberg sent non ED decisions out already, but I am obviously wrong.) Have you even visited Muhlenberg? Maybe seen a show there? If you have not, I suggest you get your tail to Allentown and arrange to go there when you can see a show (play or musical.) Because if and when you do, you are going to be so impressed by the talent there that any thoughts of “I’m not good enough” will fly out the window, never to return. I mean that. When my D and I visited Muhlenberg during her junior year in high school (she is now a college freshmen) we saw the most amazing production of Tennessee Williams’ Orpheus Descending that you can imagine. Everything about the show was spot on, from the acting to the set, scenery, lights and so on. My D is a huge Williams’ fan and couldn’t stop raving. Muhlenberg is a fabulous program and the kids who go there are lucky to be there.</p>

<p>Thanks Mamarose,
I’m sorry, I made a typo. I meant to say that I applied to Muhlenberg and I’ve already gotten in academically to Elon.</p>

<p>Clay, </p>

<p>Not everyone that is successful in theatre decided back when they were 11 yrs old and started taking acting, singing and dance lessons. Deciding to go for theatre sometimes happens in high school and those may not have gone to summer programs at places at pre-college CMU, etc. IMO there seem to be 3 different levels. Very rarely you see someone graduating from high school that bypasses college and gets hired. One example is Sutton Foster who had experience when young, did 1 yr at CMU, dropped and obviously is doing very well. Another level is someone that at 18 gets into a BFA program. And another level is someone that because they haven’t had as much training or maybe just didn’t end up auditioning at the right place where the college needed their “type” and doesn’t end up in a BFA program. </p>

<p>I don’t think which of these you are at 18 determines success. It’s possible with 4 more years of training that the last 2 levels outperform the 1st level. As has been discussed many times, when you go for the eventual professional audition someday they won’t care if you have a BFA or BA or BM or whatever. They will only care what they see at that audition. </p>

<p>If you love theatre and can’t imagine doing anything else and feel that with more training you can be successful in this area I would not let not getting in a BFA kill my dream. I will give you a preview of next year. Time and again I have heard freshmen who did get into a program (including the BFAs) overwhelmed watching the level of talent of the juniors and seniors in the program. All of a sudden they don’t feel as talented or optimistic. But those juniors and seniors got that way by the extra years of training. If you don’t get better and better every year you’d be paying a lot of tuition for nothing so when you think of it you better hope the upperclassmen look more skilled. </p>

<p>“If” you don’t get in a BFA consider going to a college where you can take classes in acting, singing and dancing. And if you want to next year you could always reaudition as a transfer student to a BFA.</p>

<p>And clay, if you can, make sure to visit Muhlenberg so you can talk to Charlie Richter and sit in on some acting classes and if you possibly can, see a performance or two. You will be delighted with the level of talent there and the training.</p>

<p>Hang in there!</p>

<p>It’s very easy to get wrapped up in the idea that a BFA is the only way to go. But if you go to any Bway show and look at the bios of the actors, you will see that MOST of them do not have a BFA degree. (A friend of mine, who has been in 5 original Bway casts, didn’t even finish his BA degree until last year – at the age of 55.) I understand your disappointment in the two rejections you’ve received. But I agree with NMR – Muhlenberg is a wonderful school with an excellent theater program and a very good reputation in the industry. If you are accepted there academically, you will get a first rate education and training. I know several students who are there now, and they are extremely happy and satisfied.</p>

<p>I’ll be sure to visit Muhlenberg, although I still have to hear from U Miami, BoCo, Hartt School, Carnegie Mellon, NYU,</p>

<p>Clay - if you do have the opportunity I would also suggest you go visit Muhlenberg in person and meet Charlie Richter. My D and I visited there last summer when she was a rising junior. She loved Charlie and the school and feels she could do a theatre/vocal major and get as many dance classes as she needed to have a good program. Also remember that Allentown is only an hour and a half from NYC. My D also thought that if she ends up there after her auditions next year she could also take advantage of going into the city for workshops and training as she would be so close.</p>

<p>Please hang in there and do not get discouraged. If this is your dream you will get there!</p>

<p>Is it common for people not to get into any BFA programs?</p>

<p>These discussions of the odds of getting into a BFA program always seem to lead to horrid mathematical nightmares on here. But basically Clay if a college is going to admit 20 or 30 people and 800 or 900 audition, what is more “common” as you ask - to be accepted or not? Obviously the bigger group is the ones not accepted. If the same group of 800 or 900 audition at 2 colleges they widen their pool of opportunity and now have 40 or 60 chances - however likely that at least some of those will have been accepted at both college A and college B. In past years people have posted how many openings are at all the colleges and tried to paint a picture that there were enough openings for everyone somewhere - if you auditioned at 20 BFA colleges or some theory ridiculous like that. I think you can see though the basic concept that more people will not get in a BFA than get in and know that some VERY VERY talented people are “commonly” rejected. It is highly competitive. Luckily whether you get in a BFA or not will not determine eventual success in the field. As others have pointed out all you need to do is read any Playbill to see this.</p>

<p>This is why it’s very important to have a fall-back plan, and safety schools THAT YOU WOULD BE HAPPY TO ATTEND on your list. Unfortunately, every year I see students who have failed to do this – and often they are left with no satisfactory options.</p>

<p>Onstage is right, right, right! Your safety should be exactly that: a school you know for sure you will be accepted to and that you would be happy to attend. I think one mistake is that people assume that if they have the stats for Muhlenberg, they will get in. Not so. Muhlenberg has become quite selective and one thing they look for is evidence that a kid has not just added them to this list as a safety; they want kids who actually express an interest and want to be there. That means taking the time to visit, sit in on classes, talk to Charlie Richter and the admissions officers, and so on. I know a few kids with fine test scores and high grades and lots of APs who were waitlisted, and I think that happened because they never set foot on campus or showed any real interest.</p>

<p>If you do not get accepted to a BFA program, by all means consider going to the school that will allow you to take theatre courses and improve your craft. It is always a possibility to transfer after a year or two, and if you are active in theatre in college, you can prepare for those auditions. I’ve seen some fine MT folks come out of non BFA programs. </p>

<p>When you get your acceptances, look for the theatre opportunities and courses at the schools that accept you. Sometimes it is better to go to a school without a BFA program if you are not in that program. They may restrict non BFA, non MT or non drama students to the point that it would be difficult to get the classes and experience you want. I know kids who went to non BFA programs who got a lot more experience and opportunities than those who went to BFA schools, because there wasn’t the pecking order or competition. My son’s girlfriend got a lead role in the college musical as a freshman; something that would have been nearly impossible at many of the BFA schools. With summer workshops and drama, voice and dance classes, she was able to supplement her college offerings very well. There are kids who go to top MT programs who do not get a plum part in any performance for their time in college. So you can find opportunities, sometimes even more in a non MT school.</p>

<p>If I might chime in, however briefly. Nobody looks at the degree once you leave school. Yes, the BFA will PROBABLY get you more in class time working on music and theatre skills. Yes, this is important. But there are terrible BFA programs, and great BA programs for each and every student (and vice versa I might add). Rejection from any or all programs may indicate something, but it could just as easily indicate nothing. Many great actors were rejected, kicked out of programs, etc. Do what you NEED to do. </p>

<p>The letters “BFA” do not at all indicate any level of quality or curriculum design, in much the same way “equity actor” does not necessarily indicate talent or ability. Degrees are determined by the University and not by any governing body. While the National Association of Schools of Theatre does have guidelines, not every school is a member, nor needs, or even desires, to be a member. </p>

<p>Get what you NEED. I detest the term “safety school.” I know it is benign and not meant in any pejorative sense, but it comes off that way in many cases. Pick a school based on feel, on curriculum, on your NEEDS, not on name, not on reputation. Training is what YOU make of it and there are great faculty in so many schools that don’t appear anywhere near this board. I wish you luck, I really and truly hope you get what your heart desires. But make sure you look at the long term picture and I’ll bet the name of the school doesn’t play a part, only the training you get at that school plays a part.</p>

<p>Anyway…that’s my two cents.</p>

<p>"Is it common for people not to get into any BFA programs? "</p>

<p>I didn’t get into any. Two other people from my class auditioned- one (very talented) girl and one (marginally talented) boy. The girl also didn’t get in to any BFA programs and the boy got into one, but he had family connections or something there.</p>

<p>Also I definitely second the thought that you should visit Muhlenberg. I’m a student there and I love it. It’s a great school with a great program.</p>

<p>The term “safety school” is a bit of a misnomer. It doesn’t mean that a school is not competitive and selective. What is really meant is that because it is not audition based, there are objective and quantifiable metrics (gpa and SAT) by which to evaluate the odds of getting in. A school is a “safety” only to the extent that you know up front where your gpa and SAT scores place you in comparison to recently admitted students. You, of course, have to factor in whether the school also takes a more holistic approach based on EC’s, recommendations, interviews, visits etc. That means digging into the school to understand the admissions process there better. In the case of Muhlenberg, as others have posted, visiting the school, showing a genuine interest, enabling them to get to know you as a person and evaluate how you would fit into the school community is critical. Mere objective metrics are generally not enough; it is an excellent school that attracts many more well qualified students than it has room for. Visiting the school and having an on campus interview are critical components of the admissions process.</p>