You know… if someone told me what it was “really” like to be an elementary-grade teacher (hours that can run from leaving the house at 6:45am, teaching all day (including supervising the students during lunch), preparing the room for the next day and lesson planning until 5:30pm, then grading papers for a few more hours, then emailing parents at midnight about the next day’s writing prompt so they could talk about it at breakfast the next day….), well, I’d pause too. But then, I love teaching young kids. I love watching them master such minutia, like rounding numbers to 10s, or remembering the names of all the continents. I don’t make a whole lot of money as a teacher, and the hours can be grueling, but I love it. </p>
<p>I sure hope our kids, soon to be medical doctors, love their career choice like I do. The hours may be grueling, but having a ‘passion’ for what you do can make it all worthwhile.</p>
<p>I hear you, curm. It’s not what I would pick for my D either. Does your D listen to your opinion on things like this? I tried to not comment to my D too much on her choice of specialty, but it was very obvious how interested she was in surgery as soon as she started her 3rd year rotation. She also considered emergency and was encouraged by several drs. there, but as soon as she got back into surgery as a 4th year, the decision was made. She actually said to me after a complicated oncology surgery, “I love bowels!”
(That surgeon is writing one of her recommendation letters.)</p>
<p>Hey, we owe it to our kids to point out the pros & cons, then they can make an informed decision, but we all know they will make their own decisions. Perhaps all our girls can get together and start a supportive part time “have a life” surgical practice!</p>
<p>Add my D to the list of girls encouraged to go into surgery. She’s a “fix-it” type-A personality. She doesn’t want to have long term or on-going relationships with her patients. Fix it and forget it could be her motto.</p>
<p>She loved her ER rotation this summer, but her mentor was an ortho as well as an EM specialist and he let her set a couple of broken arms. She enjoyed it. So now she’s looking in to taking an ortho rotation during 4th year.</p>
<p>We’ve already talked about the negatives of a surgical specialty–including the awful hours and the long residency/fellowship period. I won’t discourage her. (Yeah, like she’d listen to me anyway. She hasn’t listened to me since she learned to say the word “no” at 8 months.) But I will make sure she knows what she’s getting herself into.</p>
<p>My daughter said that one reason she likes neurology and surgery for that matter over family medicine which is her current rotation is that they are actually sick. A lot of the patients she has seen in family medicine aren’t really sick and if they are sick with things like diabetes, they won’t listen to you anyways. In surgery, you can have as much patient contact as you want or don’t want.</p>
<p>Oh yeah. That one’s awesome. They’re worse than normal people who google things I swear. Our micro bio/infectious disease block was the worst, LOL.</p>
D was also encouraged, and she entertained it for quite some time as I recall, but in the end just couldn’t see it for the rest of her working life. After reading all the comments here, I think it would have been hard for her, too. I am looking at her class match list from last March - five females matched in general surgery, one in orthopaedic surgery, and one in neurological surgery.
I think that is pretty common for many residencies from what I hear from my D and her friends. It seems that those in surgery have the longest days.</p>
<p>hrs
I realize that 4 days off is a pretty common schedule for Interns…what isn’t common is having them bunched together…working 12-16 days in a row that start at 5 AM for Pre-rounds and end after 7PM most days and later if you are in surgery. In between they do “night float” which is the new creative way to get around the 80 hour a week work limit.</p>
<p>A little advice for the parents of the 3rd years (to pass on to the students as appropriate):
Timing of the 4th year rotations is very important. In fact, very soon the 3rd years will need to start scheduling 4th year rotations, including away rotations. This is important for residency because you have a better chance of matching in competitive specialties if you have done an away rotation at a program. The student also needs 3-4 strong letters of recommendation from drs in the particular field, with one or more from program directors in residency programs if possible. Now here is the issue: the student has to schedule these away rotations with the programs individually. Each one has their own date to begin scheduling and own little ways of doing things. The best blocks for rotations are July, August, and September (Oct. too for some) because then you can get letters from these programs for the residency application. But of course all med students are aware of this and are scheduling rotations for the same time.</p>
<p>If the student doesn’t decide on specialty or changes her mind in the spring or summer after 3rd year, then it can be hard to get any of these fall rotation slots. For general surgery, my D needed at least 2 letters from surgeons, with a total of 4 needed. It’s better if all the letters are from the desired specialty and better if all the letters are from drs associated with a residency program. </p>
<p>So right about now the 3rd years need to make up their minds what they want. For less competitive specialties, this isn’t so critical. But the more competitive the specialty, the more important this timing is. </p>
<p>My D’s school did not do a good job with advising on this. Just thought some of you parents might find this useful info.</p>
<p>One more thing: before scheduling the away rotations, of course, the student has to research the programs to see which ones she would be interested in applying to as a resident. It’s a lot of research as there are many programs for each specialty. Some away rotations start scheduling in Jan.</p>
<p>Jeez. Just lovely news. Thankfully my MS3 is doing a research year next year and has plenty of time to plan. </p>
<p>In other news, the hurricane has the whole town my kid lives in on high alert. Quite late in the game, my kid and her roomies decided they needed to “check on our non-perishable provisions”. What did y’all have, honey? “Halloween candy and beer.” Well, dear. I guess y’all are good to go. ;)</p>
<p>Interesting, that my D (MS2) feels exactly like Kristin:
“…surgery’s definitely NOT for me. Something attractive about relationships with patients”. But, again, no rotation experience, except for the trip abroad that might be counted as rotation.<br>
In comparison to several posts above, we do not have weekly talks / weekly communications of any sorts, D. does not have time (as in a past, besides academics, she is into everything else in a world). Also, she has mentioned (she might be incorrect as 4th year is pretty remote), that MS4 is more relaxed, basically some elective rotations. From my undertanding (again, migth be not accurate), all “must” rotations are done priamrily in 3rd year. Another difference, no weekly or semi/weekly or middle of the block exams. Huge exams at the end of blocks. Blocks are of various difficulty levels. Current one has much more difficult anatomy portion than before. Anatomy has been “easier” part, but not currently. Well her exam is next week, will see.<br>
Then, off to very much anticipated neuro block (the last one), which has been a great interest for many years, with several volunteering positions and Med. Research intenship during UG, all connected to neuro as well as almost completed (but dropped in senior year) Neuro minor.<br>
Hurricane might reach D. hopefully only as very strong winds, but her big Bro in NYC is a different story. They sit tight in their apartment today, everything is cancelled, kids’ school, work. I hope they have enough water in case if tab water gets pollutted, I am sure about huge amount of beer and coke stashed up. not sure about water though.</p>
<p>Generally, there is no tuition for away rotations. There is a nominal application fee ($50-100) which is only assessed if you are accepted for the rotation, but no formal “tuition”.</p>
<p>I think there is some payment arrangement between the med school and the hospital for away rotations. At my D’s school if the student does an away rotation in a dr’s office not associated with a hospital (family practice, for example) that dr receives a nominal payment, I think about $400 for the four week rotation.</p>
<p>That is correct that most of the required rotations are in 3rd year. My D was in a selective program at the hospital associated with her med school and almost all her rotations were chosen for her. This is my point about 4th year, it then becomes much more up to the student to arrange for the elective rotations and there is a whole lot of strategy in arranging them that is not easy to understand.</p>
<p>Also, by Jan.-Feb. of 3rd year a lot of students don’t even know yet what specialty they want! I think this is the worst flaw of the whole med school system. Fine for those who have wanted surgery or peds since day 1 of med school, but not fine for students with several interests. Also you might not have a particular rotation that becomes the area of top interest till the last slot in 3rd year, and by then it is too late to arrange the away rotations in July-Sept. that would best benefit your residency application. </p>
<p>There was very little counseling at my D’s school about choosing a specialty, as though the doctor fairy would wave her magic wand and a specialty spell would descend on each student. </p>
<p>Some students can figure this all out themselves or are naturally drawn to a specialty, but for many others…this life-changing choice (just as important as deciding to become a dr.) is not supported by the med school or profession. </p>
<p>As the student is rotating in 3rd year, lots of drs try to convince the student that their specialty would be a good one to select, but that isn’t unbiased advice. Also, a student’s grades and step 1 score affect what specialties are likely for the student to match into. It isn’t just what the student wants, but what he/she can match into.</p>
<p>Can you tell there are a lot of similarities with the whole med school entrance process all over again? It’s a nerve-wracking issue in my family at the moment.</p>
I am gonna say something.</p>