The Whatever--Random Medical School Stuff

<p>^ You are right. I noticed the date he posted this was late in 2009. But he has not updated it since then.</p>

<p>Also, I heard the mean this year (up to now) is 227.</p>

<p>Even when we completely forget about the obsolete 2 digits number in parenthesis, there is still another “problem”:</p>

<p>The 50 percentile below:

corresponds to the median. I think the median is supposed to be higher than the mean (average) due to the fact that the distribution is negatively skewed. But the mean of the current year is already 227. So the median (which corresponds to 50 percentile) may be even higher.</p>

<p>Hopefully, somebody else has more up-to-date data about this.</p>

<p>Another point IWBB pointed out on another thread (related to MCAT instead of STEP-1 though) is that after the score is above some threshold, it may not make much difference. I think norcalguy said the same about MCAT before. I wonder whether the same applies to STEP-1 scores.</p>

<p>frugal,
"MiamiDap, it was a great idea that your d worked on her emotions. "
-I am sorry, you misunderstood me. Being extra sensitive (emotional) does not mean at all that person cannot control it. My d. has never had an issue controling her emoitions, in fact I have been very amazed with her ability way back in High School when she was going to Med. School interviews (for combined bs/md). She would be in complete emotional disarray for some HS issues (primarily social) and in the next 1/2 hour she is coming out of interview with the smile on her face.<br>
She never had to deal with controling herself while dealing with others. No, not at all. However, she (and many other girls that I know closer) have to deal with the emotions affecting them personally and unless they take care of them, they affect them negativelly (during exams, as one example).</p>

<p>"after the score is above some threshold, it may not make much difference. I think norcalguy said the same about MCAT before. I wonder whether the same applies to STEP-1 scores. "
-It may depend on specialty. For some very selective specialties, few points up might give an applicant an “edge”, they she needs because of smaller number of publications (just a speculation on my part)</p>

<p>There is definitely diminishing returns on USMLE score just like MCAT score but I don’t think they diminish as quickly.</p>

<p>MiamiDap, I am sorry I implied the wrong impression. I didn’t take it that your daughter had problems controlling her emotions. Just wanted to state that many physicians are finding themselves in trouble for absolutely minor issues (example: a friend of mine was written up for asking the staff to stop joking outloud while a patient was being anesthesized to sleep. It was taken as being rude). So, it is a new era where physicians have to tolerate more problem staff and be very politically correct when addressing staff. So, it becomes very wise for students to learn how to tolerate people who they may otherwise avoid.</p>

<p>MiamiDAP mentioned a couple of weeks ago that her D and she found and used some USMLE percentile calculator.</p>

<p>If you search “usmle gunner percentile calculator” on Google, the first two that come up is about such a calculator.</p>

<p>Do not know whether this is what they used, or whether it does a good job of converting your STEP 1 scores to the percentile. </p>

<p>If we just use their default example (where mean=222, SD=22),
240 is converted to 79 percentile
245 is converted to 85 percentile
250 is converted to 90 percentile
255 is converted to 93 percentile
260 is converted to 96 percentile
265 is converted to 97 percentile
270 is converted to 99 percentile</p>

<p>If this calculator is a valid converter, whoever claims that he/she has achieved the 99 percentile must have a 3-digit score 270 or higher! BTW, there are no lack of SDNers, especially IMGs, who claimed that they had scored a 99 percentile. Whether you believe it or not is another story. (Many of them seem to confuse now-obsolete 2-digit scores with the percentiles.) Many high score IMGs do spend a lot of more time on studying for the test, as compared to a typical AMGs do though.</p>

<p>However, for the current year, the mean is already 227, not 222. (SD may not change much over the years, I think.) So the real percentiles calculated above would be even lower. If you use the real mean 227 this year, it is only after you reach 275 that your percentile would be 99%. I doubt there are many who have achieved this (at least here on CC. SDNers can have any numbers they want :))</p>

<p>Some SDNer spread a rumor that the mean increases roughly 5 points every few years, I do not know whether I should believe him.</p>

<p>I believe it. It was 224 when I took it last year (SD 22). It’s often a worry among MSTP students but luckily the residency programs not only see your USMLE score but also stats about the test pool at the time of administration such that we aren’t essentially losing points on our score every year.</p>

<p>Indeed, the 2 digit score is very frequently misconstrued as a percentile.</p>

<p>“MiamiDAP mentioned a couple of weeks ago that her D and she found and used some USMLE percentile calculator.”
-Well, D. has found some Step 1 score predictor based on MCAT score. Maybe it was MCAT percentile predicting Step 1 score in the same percentile. I am not sure, but she was happy to beat her Step 1 score prediction (whatever it was). I would say that her Step 1 score is closer related to her college GPA than her MCAT score. All along various levels of her education, her standardized tests results have always been behind her GPA, primarily because of Verbal section. I quess, there is no Verbal section in Step 1.</p>

<p>I think it’s important to set reasonable goals for step 1 also. If you don’t want to go into the most competitive specialties, then studying nonstop (either in terms of hours/day for a few months or in terms of days/month for a few years) is probably not worth it. My friends and I have a variety of interests and had a variety of approaches to preparing for step 1–and guess what! Everyone is happy with their scores. The guys who are gunning for ortho and plastics poured lots of effort and resources into studying, and their scores reflect that. The people interested in primary care or less competitive specialties had a more relaxed approach and have more modest scores, but will still be able to practice in the fields they’re interested in. </p>

<p>I like IWBB’s point about opportunity cost. How much is 15 boards points worth to you? Having no free time? Sacrificing relationships with people who matter? Not getting to perform or present your research? Remarkably few people can “do it all” in terms of achieving excellence in academics and personal life. So much of med school is figuring out how/where you want to strike a balance. My score has probably removed some specialties I wasn’t interested in anyway, but in exchange I had the time/opportunity to care for sick family members, nurture a fun new relationship, present posters of my research at 2 conferences, maintain hobbies, and generally enjoy my life. In my opinion, these rewarding experiences were unquestionably worth a dozen (or more!) boards points.</p>

<p>"How much is 15 boards points worth to you? "
-As you, Kristin, pointed correctly, it depends…In my D’s case, 15 points means either be able to follow her life long dream (since HS, I would say) or go with her #2 choice. For somebody else, 15 points might not mean much at all. You are absolutely right about this assessment. D’s personal schedule was very different from others in her class. She realized that breaks are extremely important for her so she allowed herself longer period. She also realized that her extreme every day studying hours built up her “brain stamina” that has helped her to take a very long test. These were her personal observations / assessments and I strongly believe that everybody should go thru the process to create their personal schedule. The personal approach to testing has always worked for D. She has used it for ACT, MCAT before and it has worked for her every time. Because of the very personal approach, D. did not loose much of her normal life, in fact it was much more normal than their rotaion schedules (aside from Research rotation), which they have no control over.</p>

<p>High inbreeding at top 5 med schools (roughly one third) and low numbers matching into “competitive” specialties (for every school)?</p>

<p>I also read somewhere that for applicants from the places like HMS, as long as the boards scores are not too bad among their peer students from the same schools, the scores are not that important. (Unless they shoot for the super competitive specialties.) Some claimed that the average boards score of, say, HMS, is not many points higher that that from tufts.</p>

<p>[Match</a> lists at top 5 schools « Anastomosed](<a href=“http://anastomosed.■■■■■■■■■■■■■/2012/01/03/match-lists-in-top-5-schools/]Match”>Match lists at top 5 schools – Anastomosed)</p>

<p>Some SDNer posted this (from the current issue of USNR?)</p>

<p>Just did some quick stats for ranked schools:
n=85, Pitt and Minnesota do not have listed scores.
mean=227.8, median=227, st. dev=5.88
Top 5: Baylor (241), Penn (240), Harvard (239), Wash U - St Louis (238), Johns Hopkins (237)</p>

<p>I heard UVA (and UF?) is very open about how their med school students have done in their boards tests. So I look it up:</p>

<p>[Medical</a> Student Handbook](<a href=“http://www.med-ed.virginia.edu/handbook/academics/licensure.cfm]Medical”>http://www.med-ed.virginia.edu/handbook/academics/licensure.cfm)</p>

<p>Since a sightly more than 30% of UVA students score better than 246 in STEP-1, and if the median of of top 5 med schools mentioned above is less than 240, this means the top 30% of UVA students do better than the bottom 50% of the students from Baylor, Penn, Harvard, WasU, and JHU on this test.</p>

<p>There are no “bad” med schools!</p>

<p>also, the cream always rises to the top</p>

<p>Um, the people who made it through HS to good universities, then did well enough on their university GPA & MCAT to make it to med school are the cream, in my never to be humble opinion.</p>

<p>The Step tests are really splitting hairs, at least for the US MD grads.</p>

<p>Fully agreed. It does not make sense to compare these med school students against each other.</p>

<p>Another point I would like to make is that, even if the average of the STEP-1 score of a school is slightly lower, it only means that the school’s mission is different. The case in point, nobody will think ucsf is not great, yet its school’s average is not that high as compared to several other med schools. It is only due to this school’s mission being different. (E.g., take more IS students as its purpose is to serve the need of the California state, especially some specific need in this state: likely too many doctors in the cities but well too few doctors in some rural areas.)</p>

<p>When DS was applying to med school school, he said his wish is that, if possible (he did not know whether his future school would be a p/f one at that time), he does not want to compete against other students in the same class after he gets into a med school. He has done this all his life before med school, and he’s tired of doing it as a med school student again.</p>

<p>^could you make sure residency directors get that memo? Would love it if I didn’t have to be compared to other medical students.</p>

<p>More seriously, of course the difference between the top and the bottom is much smaller in medical school, but I still believe that, to some degree at least, success is earned and that successful people can succeed in a variety of settings and therefore it’s no surprise that you will find people at every medical school outperforming people at Harvard, WUSTL, JHU, etc.</p>

<p>…but they compete, desire or not is irrelevant. There are only so many spots in residency, the Step 1 score, class rank, number of publications…all counts. While Step 1 score will depend on student much more than the Med. School program, class rank and number of publications is a different story. There is only one ranked #1, one #2,…etc. There are only specific number of spots in Research and there are only certain number of publications / grant money available…there is definitely competition there.</p>

<p>Kid headed over the pond for some R and R. I think this is gonna be a good year. Full time research job and Step 2 CS is all she has on her plate. The 5th year is a bit of a luxury now that she is not zeroed in on a “most competitive” residency, but it is one I encouraged. I want her to take full advantage of this year.</p>

<p>What is she thinking about now. It seems to change every couple of months! lol</p>