<p>I am having trouble finding 2007 drama audition dates for CMU and Purchase. Anyone out there have any success?</p>
<p>My daughter is a high school senior who wants to study acting but other things in college as well (cinematography, art history). So you might conclude she wants a BA program, but there are these complications: (1) she has spent the last two summers in intensive programs at NC Arts and Carnegie Mellon, so Im afraid a lot of general BA programs would be too basic for her, not challenging enough. (2) Although she says she wants to study other subjects too, she seems really sort of primed to go somewhere and study acting 24/7 and might be disappointed to end up in a first semester taking one acting class and several gen. ed classes. (3) She wouldnt be accepted to some of the good BA drama programs described on this site because she doesnt have the statsher GPA is 3.3, her SAT was 1230 not counting the writing section (she is taking it again). But she is a very bright, creative girl. </p>
<p>More information about her: she doesnt really have that much on-stage experience. She goes to a large public high school, and the parts she has been able to get there have been very small. She has acted in a student film, has taken acting classes outside of school, and was in a local (Washington DC) summer program before NCArts and CMU. Her auditions outside of school havent yielded any work for her. </p>
<p>We are reluctant to send her to a BFA program because the whole business, from school to finding work, seems like such a desperate scramble. In spite of what people say about following your dream, the numbers are too discouraging. We dont want her to be another lemming jumping off the BFA cliff. Wed like her to explore, try out different interests. </p>
<p>Are there any decent BFA programs allow students more room to take classes outside of theatre or begin later in college than freshman year? Not sure we want a college that has a good theatre program but no other good departments. And she would like a smallish school. Right now we are thinking about Emerson, Muhlenberg, Ithaca, College of Santa Fe, and Boston College (too Catholic?). We were told that girls applying to Skidmore would need an SAT in the 1300s, and probably Connecticut College would be a reach for her too (and for CC you need 2 SAT subject tests or the ACT).</p>
<p>Can anyone out there help with this? (And yes, I have already read through this site and its archives.) Or anybody know a good private college counselor in the DC area who is knowledgeable about the performing arts? (Sorry for the long post.)</p>
<p>Those are definite dilemmas. You laid out the BA side pretty well but I have some questions on the BFA side.</p>
<p>You said
[quote]
…summers in intensive programs at NC Arts CMU..
[/quote]
</p>
<p>You mean NCSA, right? </p>
<p>Their summer program features both an acting and movement audition at the beginning of the program. Students are then broken up into groups of 16. While the groups are not named as such the top 16 students are told that they where “hand picked” to work with the best acting instructors. Was your daughter in that group? Did she do the audition work shop and if so what kind of feedback did she get?</p>
<p>
[quote]
She goes to a large public high school, and the parts she has been able to get there have been very small.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>How come? I know I am playing the devils advocate here but if getting into an acting conservatory is not an option at this point then you have solved your dilemma. Absent extenuating circumstances…this analogy has been used before…but, what if you said, my son thinks he wants to play football 24/7 in college at a top program but he played very little In HS... it would cause one to wonder.</p>
<p>
[quote]
We are reluctant to send her to a BFA program because the whole business, from school to finding work, seems like such a desperate scramble.. We don’t want her to be another lemming jumping off the BFA cliff.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>It does not seem like a “desperate scramble” to us. Challenging and difficult for sure but fun also. </p>
<p>
[quote]
In spite of what people say about following your dream, the numbers are too discouraging
[/quote]
</p>
<p>This is our daughters dream and I don’t have the heart to deny her that. I have tested her on it a thousand times to see if that fire really existed in her belly and its there so talking practically about back ups and other interests is a waste of both of our times. Should that door close for her, we’ll look at plan B then. As the saying goes, does the world need another attorney? No, but there’s always room for another great attorney.</p>
<p>
[quote]
We’d like her to explore, try out different interests.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Nothing wrong with breadth in education. Don’t overlook however that acting students are not just studying acting they are studying history, culture, literature, societal values and norms, conventions, protocol’s, attitudes and ideas. They are learning how to introspectively examine themselves, learning communication skill, learning how to work closely with people who are very different from themselves and a whole host of other things. Few of those skills were imparted on those of us who went to a university and did the typical Gen eds and a business/econ degree.</p>
<p>This summer I had a long talk with a CMU BFA Acting graduate. I asked him what his classmates were doing. I think he said that his class was 16 to begin with and 14 at graduation. Only 5 are currently working in acting. I saw that as disappointing but he didn’t. He went on to explain what the others were doing. One a successful attorney another a hugely successful sales manager another went on to a MFA in directing and so on. With a little imagination this does not have to be a pigeon hole degree. Much in life depends on your ability to "sell yourself" and who is better trained to do that than an actor.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Are there any decent BFA programs allow students more room to take classes outside of theatre or begin later in college than freshman year?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>With regard to starting in a BA and then auditioning later to enter a BFA:</p>
<p>Chapman University has a BFA in Theater Performance (audition after 2nd/3rd year), and a BA in Theater – by audition</p>
<p>Hofstra University has a BFA in Performance (audition after first year), and a BA Theater Arts with no audition. </p>
<p>UC Santa Barbara has a BA program and also a BFA in Acting program that you audition at the end of the first year to get into. </p>
<p>There are some BFA programs that have a significant liberal arts component though will not be like doing a BA program...
NYU/Tisch
University of Michigan
Syracuse
UConn
Boston University
Elon</p>
<p>and many others. </p>
<p>For a BA non audition school, have you looked into Sarah Lawrence?</p>
<p>For a BA by audition, have you looked at James Madison or American or Fordham?</p>
<p>Adding to those comments. I dont know much about Chapman but I do know two faculty members and everything I have heard about that school has been very positive (other than being in LA, sorry , we are no LA kind of people:))</p>
<p>
[quote]
UC Santa Barbara has a BA program and also a BFA in Acting program that you audition at the end of the first year to get into.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Thats correct. You also can audition for performances your freshman year. If you dont get into the major your sophomore year (which I dont think is hugely competitive) you can continue to audition for performances. I have commented on this previously. I am a UC Santa Barbara alum. Their type of program could be a good choice for someone with the scenario of wrighershs daughter. You do have all the normal large university gen eds to take and beyond that there would be room to pursue other interests. I dont think her grades/test scores are high enough to get in though. At least not the last time I looked. </p>
<p>For being an off the radar program, their facilities are unbelievable and they really seem to be trying to build a program. Three theaters, two of which are brand new, new dance spaces and an over the top scene shop with two FTEs that most professional companies would die for. There are at least two of their grads that I know of who are working professionally to some acclaim. </p>
<p>I think that students who are not exactly sure what they want to do or have grades that might hold them back should not overlook going to a community college for a year. Not only is it a huge savings of money but some of them have decent theater departments. And, get two semesters of good grades under your belt and apply as a transfer students and you are taken much more seriously by most schools than a HS student with an average record.</p>
<p>This is the description on Chapmans web site;</p>
<p>
[quote]
All freshmen and transfer students begin in the Bachelor of Arts degree program as either Theatre or Dance Majors. Once in the Department, majors can then re-audition to be considered for the Bachelor of Fine Arts degree program after the completion of their sophomore or junior year. Students are not automatically placed in the BFA program and students can not self-select into the BFA programs. Theatre and Dance Minors do not have to audition for acceptance into the minor but are strongly recommended to meet with a Theatre or Dance Advisor.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Chapman is in Orange County, not LA county. Just wanted to clarify.
BTW ---what the heck is an LA kind of person???</p>
<p>To me “LA" starts at about Santa Clarita and ends at the border. Okay, maybe Dana Point ;)</p>
<p>We just don’t like big cities, nothing particulary annoying about LA, rather be there than Miami. Want a statistic. LAX police force is around 360 officers. The LAPD police force is 9,000 officers. Out town has about 20.</p>
<p>The San Bernardino County Sheriffs department has an annual budget of $360 million. Our whole town has a budget of $22 million. </p>
<p>I have seen some great theater there though and spent a summer at UCLA and have nothing bad to say about them.</p>
<p>WallyWorld, you don't think my daughter could get into UC Santa Barbara? Fiske says their SAT range is 1080 to 1300 (hers is 1230). And I think her GPA is 3.3 but can't really tell. Junior year her average was 3.42 for each of 3 quarters, and 3.0 for the quarter she had mono. Whether this was weighted or unweighted, I don't know. She's taking 3 AP courses this year. But you think she needs to start out at community college??</p>
<p>No, from what you have stated she would not be accepted as best I can tell. Her acceptance or non to UCSB is a minor issue to your post and our response, why do you not respond to my questions? Can she act or not? Was she in or out? Do you know or is this a distance thing? What do you think???</p>
<p>Last I checked the average incoming freshman GPA to UCSB was 3.98 with more than 22% having a GPA greater than 4.0 which doesnt seem to describe your D. </p>
<p>Your description of your situation showed a great deal of indecisiveness. BA, BFA, acting 24/7, exploring other interests. Are those your equivocations or your Childs or both?</p>
<p>I never said she needed to go to a CC, why is that such an insult to you?</p>
<p>Chapman also has a top-rated film school, since you mentioned she is interested in cinematography. Chapman is in Orange, CA, about 35 miles southeast of LA (only about a two hour drive in rush hour - :). It is a nice campus, has a good liberal arts program. Does have a bit of the LA feel to it insofar as the majority of the students are local/LA/Cali kids, and that is a culture all its own! One of my kids has a good friend that went there for film and she thought the film program was great and enjoyed the close proximity to the beach, but she wasn't too on board with what she called the "typical Orange County mindset" - something about materialism mixed with surfer duds! LOL. Now, all you California people please do not take offense - this was her take on it, not mine - and, she did say the film program was excellent. And, I think - but am not positive -that is a program that allows non-film majors to take a some of the film classes (unlike USC and a few others that I believe only allow film students to take film classes, due to space limitations) UT Austin also has an excellent film program and a good acting program if she would like to go Texan, and Florida offers both as well. I have to agree with WallyWorld (although it pains me to, tee hee) that it might be a stretch for her to get into a top conservatory with the lack of training she has had unless she has incredibly strong natural ability and has had a lot of really positive feedback from the NCSA people, etc. Plus, if she's kind of on the fence about acting a converstory program might not be for her as it is really intense and doesn't allow for a lot of other interests. just some random thoughts - you know your daughter better than anyone!</p>
<p>Mamamia,</p>
<p>
[quote]
I have to agree with WallyWorld (although it pains me to, tee hee)
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Now Wally's not that bad is he? You know you guys love to hate him:) </p>
<p>Like I said before, the more I hear about Chapman the more I like (Other than the Orange County part). One of the profs I know has successfully argued a number of cases before the Supreme Court.</p>
<p>I thought it was a private Christian school but nothing on thier web site (not an exhaustive search) indicated so. </p>
<p>Also, they do not conduct any off campus auditions. They allow submissions of video taped monologues. They also grant talent awards based on both in person and taped auditions. Seems like you would be better advised to audition on campus than submit a tape, what do you guys think?</p>
<p>I think if your going to pursue work in the entertainment industry--doesnt it make sense to count the amount of jobs availible in that industry and not the amount of police officers on hand?
20 cops in your town, but how many theatrical or film industry jobs? I live within a fifteen minute metro ride to downtown la, my husband is a below the line film worker (but still union) , and within ten houses in either direction we have at least ten neighbors who are sound people, actors, musicians etc ---
and our town was listed as the SAFEST town in America (pop 11,000).
And we are all "LA type" people.</p>
<p>Hi,</p>
<p>Does anyone out there know anything about the theater programs at Pace, Rutgers, UConn or Montclair State? How difficult are these colleges to get into on a talent level and on an academic level? Would any of them be considered safety schools? My D is starting to freak out about her safety school and we were planning to hopefully visit all of these colleges this weekend. Since this is so last minute, we might not be able to book a formal tour. Do you think it's still worthwhile to go anyway just to look around? I doubt very much that we'd be able to speak to anyone in the theater departments. Thanks so much for any info you can provide for any of these colleges!</p>
<p>That doesnt sound like a complete waste of time but not very optimal for sure. You could gauge the feel of the school but not the program. So, if accepted you would have to go back for another visit.</p>
<p>Rutgers certainly would not qualify as a safety if we are talking BFA acting. In the acting world it has been referred to as an ivy.</p>
<p>Okay, most of the top schools are pretty upfront about the fact that everything rides on the audition. Since talent is what they are after, why not, thats okay with us. </p>
<p>What then do you guys think about the role of essays and letters of recommendation? If they say its all about the audition should you really sweat the other stuff? Are there programs that you really need to put a great effort into essays and letters? We are familiar with highly competitive programs with no audition requirement where the essays and letters are hugely important but what about this world?</p>
<p>In my experience with my older D who auditioned for musical theater, it seems in retrospect that the main criterion for admittance was the audition. Everything else was superfluous. Even though she had a very good essay, great GPA, very good SAT's, five wonderful letters of recommendation from theater and voice teachers, a packed theater resume including several roles in regional professional theater, she didn't get into any of the colleges she auditioned at except for University of Hartford where she got into the school, but not musical theater. The majority of the colleges she auditioned at are considered MT ivys. I believe that if she had applied for a different, non-audition major at these schools she probably would have gotten in.</p>
<p>On the other hand, her best friend got into Tisch CAP 21 with NO professional or community theater experience; she had simply done high school theater (with my daughter) but was extremely talented. She stood out in terms of her acting ability. Her other stats were similar to my daughter's. So I believe that she must have "wowed" the judges in her audition. She applied to the same MT ivy schools as my D, but I'm not exactly sure how many of the others she got into.</p>
<p>I had read on CC that the judges really don't care all that much what you did before in theater; that it all comes down to those 4-5 minutes. I didn't want to believe it but it's true. I thought that my daughter's theater resume was very impressive, but I don't think they even cared about that. It's similar to going on an audition for a play in terms of the fact that it all comes down to the subjective opinions of the casting directors and what they are looking for AT THAT VERY MOMENT.</p>
<p>So, I'm not saying to totally disregard the essay or other application requirements because I think that if you put too little effort into your essay or don't take the time to seek out people who can provide you with excellent letters of recommendation, it could possibly hurt your chances of getting accepted. I believe that the admissions committe would be able to tell if you whipped off an essay in 15 minutes and might interpret that as not really caring enough about the whole application proess.</p>
<p>To wrap it up, in my opinion the audition is THE deciding factor in the top MT and theater programs but the other items could perhaps be the determining factors between two equally talented candidates.</p>
<p>SeaShells29 said:</p>
<p>"So, I'm not saying to totally disregard the essay or other application requirements because I think that if you put too little effort into your essay or don't take the time to seek out people who can provide you with excellent letters of recommendation, it could possibly hurt your chances of getting accepted. I believe that the admissions committe would be able to tell if you whipped off an essay in 15 minutes and might interpret that as not really caring enough about the whole application proess.</p>
<p>To wrap it up, in my opinion the audition is THE deciding factor in the top MT and theater programs but the other items could perhaps be the determining factors between two equally talented candidates."</p>
<p>I absolutely agree with the statements above, and I'd go a step further. The "other items" (often including interview as well) are often the determining factors for merit and/or talent scholarships and for that reason alone should not be "sloughed off". From what I observed, the audition is certainly paramount but the "whole package" is important too!</p>
<p>I already addressed this topic where you posted it on the MT Forum. But to add in here and in relation to what Seashells wrote....the application and essays and recs DO matter but FIRST you have to be someone they want from the audition itself. Those other pieces/factors can't replace a so so audition. But many pass "muster" in the audition and due to that, need to ALSO have a good package on the other aspects of college admissions. Also, there are some schools where you must be admitted to the college first, in order to audition. Further, I also addressed in my posts on the MT thread that the application materials are a factor in selection for scholarships. </p>
<p>Remember when a school, like many BFA schools, only accept 4-9% of those who audition, there are likely MORE than 9% who are talented enough in the audition to be strongly considered. Other factors, however, may set one apart from the other. Those other pieces need to be up to snuff as well. This isn't the case so much at a low selectivity college where academic admisions are quite easy for many and also isn't a big deal for a conservatory like BOCO, but for many BFA programs affiliated with fairly or more selective admissions colleges, it does matter.</p>
<p>I want to add that I observe many people who build a list of theater colleges to apply to because the colleges offer a BFA in theater, as if every kid could have the same list. However, that is NOT the case at all. A person's academic type of qualifications will dictate the list, not just artistic talent. I have worked with many students whose academic package is weak and their original college list is UNREALISTIC but they simply picked out good colleges with excellent BFA programs as if that is all there is to it. Nuh uh. Having the RIGHT college list for YOU is CRUCIAL. The students with whom I am working have very different theater college lists and one of the major reasons has to do with their qualifications being very varied from one kid to another. Some kids have NO chance at certain BFA programs due to their academic profile. If people think that just having a good audition is going to get them into ANY BFA program, they are sadly mistaken. I do know of kids who have great artistic talent who got shut out of most BFA programs due to their application package being too weak. I know several, for example, who only could get into BOCO, Hartt or Roosevelt, but not other BFAs because the rest of their profile outside of the audition was too weak. (not knocking those schools whatsoever but the academic qualfications there are much lower than other places......they are good programs of course...my own kid got into BOCO just so you know I am not putting it down!) The "other stuff" truly matters, ONCE you also are attractive to them in the audition of course. Also some BFA programs are located in fairly selective colleges, whereas some are in universities that are pretty easy to get into and so essays and such may not be too big of a deal at a school like those.</p>
<p>Regarding a resume showing lots of community theatre experience, etc., I have heard that a lot of schools actually prefer to get a student that, while certainly talented, hasn't been extensively trained because then they just have to break a lot of bad habits! I was told that was one reason most of the top programs do not allow students to be in any productions the first two years, as they are concentrating on untraining/retraining the actors in the methods they embrace. So, if that is in fact the case, that also supports the theory that the audition is the most important factor to get accepted into the theatre program as opposed to previous experience. But, again, as stated by others, many theatre programs require the student to also meet all academic standards required for general admission into the university itself.</p>