<p>There is a Business school in India called Indian Institute of Management that claims to have an admit rate of less than 1% !!!</p>
<p>Yeah, but that's because the IIT's and IIM's have a completely different way of calculating "admit rates". Basically, everybody who is interested in attending IIM has to take what is called the CAT (the Common Admissions Test). Every test-taker is considered an "applicant". </p>
<p>That's completely different from the US system in which the GMAT is not affiliated with any particular business school. Generally, you take the GMAT, and then from there, you decide which schools you want to apply to. For example, if you got a 500, you're probably not going to apply to the top schools. Contrast that with the Indian system where the very act of taking the CAT means that you're an applicant. You can't just take the CAT, see your score, and then decide that you no longer want to apply to IIM anymore. The fact that you've taken the test means that you're already considered an applicant. </p>
<p>If the US B-schools used this same procedure and counted every single person in the world who takes the GMAT as an "applicant", even if they never actually submit a formal application, then you would surely see the "admit rates" plunge to infinitesimal numbers.</p>
<p>Surely, not everybody who takes CAT would apply to IIMs. I mean it would be the same thing with GMAT. Why would anyone who got a score less than 50% would apply to IIMs? There should be other lower ranked colleges in India too.</p>
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Surely, not everybody who takes CAT would apply to IIMs. I mean it would be the same thing with GMAT. Why would anyone who got a score less than 50% would apply to IIMs? There should be other lower ranked colleges in India too.
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<p>It doesn't matter if they apply. The mere fact of taking the CAT means that, according to IIM, you are an applicant.</p>
<p>First off, you have to understand that the CAT is only useful in getting into IIM. It's not useful anywhere else. That's a direct contrast with the GMAT, in which the GMAT can obviously be used for any B-schools in the US (and many overseas as well). The CAT can only be used for IIM, because IIM is the only schools that care about the CAT. CAT is a dedicated admissions test solely for IIM.</p>
<p>Secondly, and more importantly, whether you are even allowed to proceed to the next step of the application process is determined solely by your CAT score. The top x % of CAT scorers get invited for interview. </p>
<p>But the point is still that the mere fact that you have taken the CAT automatically means that IIM has counted you as an applicant. That is why the admit rates are so "low". It's like if Harvard Business School decided to run its own dedicated admissions test, and everybody who took that test was automatically considered to be an "applicant".</p>
<p>Well we have to also take into account the population. However, in my opinion taking the test is a lot more committment than filling out an application, because to most people prepare for around two years prior to taking the test. This is because the university only accepts those who score 95% + on the exam and can back it up with a good application. In my opinion 1% is pretty good, but we must also remember that in India there is a high focus on education, thus more people apply, while here in the US, many just stop after the undergraduate or don't even go to college whatsoever. Anyway, those kids in India have a better chance at succeeding after their MBA than most people in the US, primarily due to India's booming economy, but the pay scales are really not that comparable, hence why the economy is booming. :D</p>
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<p>Not true. Many top Indian B-Schools take admission through the CAT score. It includes Indian School of Business, MDI, FMS, and many more...</p>
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Well we have to also take into account the population.
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<p>Well, I think this actually cuts both ways. India has a large population (1.1 billion), but you have to keep in mind that the majority of them are in abject poverty with extremely limited education, especially the dalits (the "untouchables"). I think that only about 65% of the adult population in India is literate in any language including their native language, and you can forget about literacy in English, which is the language of business. Even of those that are literate, the vast majority clearly do not have the means to get into a place like IIM. Not everybody in India is well-off. In fact, the vast majority are not. Hence, I think the educated populations of the US and India are quite comparable.</p>
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However, in my opinion taking the test is a lot more committment than filling out an application, because to most people prepare for around two years prior to taking the test.
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<p>Well, I don't know about this. I think it's highly debatable. I agree that some people in India will prepare long and hard, just like some people in the US prepare long and hard for the SAT. But I have a feeling that plenty of other Indians just take the test just to see what will happen. They might get lucky. If not, oh well. </p>
<p>Consider this analogy. What if Harvard based its admissions on just one test (just like IIT does now)? In other words, what if Harvard no longer cared about high school grades, extracurriculars, rec's, all that stuff. Your admission would now be based on one test. I think we would have to agree that a lot of people would try to take the test just to see if they can get in. Right now, plenty of people who want to go to Harvard don't even apply because they know they won't get in, so they won't waste their time. Let's face it. If you have bad high school grades and no EC's, you're not going to waste your time in applying to Harvard. But if admissions were now based on one test, a lot more people would try it figuring that they might get lucky. </p>
<p>Now, of course, IIM is slightly different because admissions are not based solely on the test. But the idea is still the same. Nothing really stops any Indian from just trying to take the CAT, even if they haven't prepared, just figuring that they might get lucky. </p>
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Not true. Many top Indian B-Schools take admission through the CAT score. It includes Indian School of Business, MDI, FMS, and many more...
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<p>Fair enough, but that doesn't invalidate the basic point that every person who takes the CAT is considered an "applicant" of IIM. It's like if Harvard Business School considered every person who takes the GMAT to be an "applicant". I think that something like a million people (maybe more) worldwide take the GMAT every year. However, less than 10,000 people apply to HBS every year. If we were to count all of the test-takers as "applicants", then clearly the "admit rate" of HBS would drop off a cliff. Let's be honest. </p>
<p>I think most people worldwide who take the GMAT would at least have some interest in attending HBS. Very few of them are sure that they would never want to go to HBS. But that doesn't mean that they all apply. Most people don't even apply because they know they won't get in.</p>
<p>^^^ Yes, very true. :)</p>
<p>perfect answers sakky...10 on 10 lol....but by the way, sakky how do you rate IIM in comparison to top B schools in the united states??</p>
<p>Well, that's an interesting question that has many facets.</p>
<p>Look, the fact is, whether you like it or not, B-schools really have a lot to do with prestige and marketing. Many people say that you shouldn't choose a school just for the prestige, and for cases like undergrad schools, that's largely true, but B-schools are a different beast. As an undergrad, your goal should be to learn as much as you can, but as an MBA student, your goal should be to do what it takes to maximize your career potential, and the truth is, the ability to self-market yourself is a key component of that. The prestige of your MBA program is an integral part of self-marketing. </p>
<p>Heck, look at things from a business standpoint. Companies worldwide spend billions and billions of dollars in trying to market and advertise themselves to consumers to convince consumers that their products are good and that they should buy their products. They make huge investments into building strong and well-recognized brand-names. For example, people who know cars understand that brands such as Lexus, BMW, Acura, Audi, Mercedes, Cadillac, and the like are synonymous with prestige. People who know fashion know that high-end brand names such as Gucci, Dior, Versace, and Armani are synonymous with high status and prestige. In fact, if you study business, you will inevitably take plenty of classes that deal with the importance of proper marketing.</p>
<p>I mention this because that is why I think that IIM is in no way comparable to the top US (or worldwide) B-schools. The education may well be just as good. But that's not the point. The point is that the top US B-schools have far better marketing behind them. Let's face it. Places like Harvard Business School, Wharton, Stanford, MIT Sloan, Columbia, etc. have extremely well developed brand names that are recognized around the world - far better than IIM is. </p>
<p>One may say that that's unfair, but I would couch it in these terms. The fact is, whether we like it or not, the best product in the marketplace does not always win. It's not enough to just have a good product out there. You also have to market it properly to convince consumers that your product is good. Often times, a technically inferior company can actually beat a better company through superior marketing. Mercedes, for example, makes some rather poorly engineered and unreliable cars, far less well engineered than the Japanese high-end name plates such as the Lexus or Acura, and less reliable than even many of the standard American nameplates such as Chevrolet. However, Mercedes has invested huge sums of money in cultivating a brand name that is synonymous with luxury and quality. That is why when people think that a Mercedes is an extremely high-quality car (when it really isn't), such that they are willing to pay tens of thousands of dollars more to buy one. That's the power of marketing. </p>
<p>The strength of a brand-name as it has to do with B-schools has another powerful side effect in that it draws in top students who will go on to achieve great things. Let's face it. Much of the value of the B-school experience is the networking. A top B-school gives you the opportunity to socialize and befriend people who will later on go on to achieve top positions in business. In business, success is often times not so much about what you know than about WHO you know. You are in a far better position in success if your personal friends include people who now occupy powerful positions in business. And let's face it. The top investment bankers, the top consultants, the top movers and shakers are far more likely to want to go to a place like HBS or Stanford than to IIM for their MBA. Honestly, unless you are an Indian yourself, would you really want to go to IIM, if you had the choice to go to a place like Harvard? I think even many Indians would prefer to go to Harvard. And that gets into an economic phenomenom known as 'network effects'. Just like an Internet auction site like Ebay becomes more useful to everybody the more people are using it in a cylical fashion (because more sellers attracts more buyers, which in turn attracts more sellers, etc.), a business school becomes more attractive the better quality the students are, because the better the students are, the more people want to go there (for the networking opportunities) which then serves to increase the quality of the students, which attracts even more people, etc. </p>
<p>Look, I'm not saying that IIM is bad. In fact, in many ways, they are very good. Their problem is the same problem that all B-schools face, which is how to create the marketing and buzz around them that the most famous B-schools have established for themselves.</p>
<p>once again after reading your reply i think your dead right...the education at IIM's are just as good if not better than the top B schools in the US but the marketing isnt even comparable...</p>
<p>now i'd like to ask you a similar question,this concerning undergrad and concerning IIT...in other words how does IIT compare in ur opinion to the top engineering schools in the US?</p>
<p>excellent post Sakky!</p>
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now i'd like to ask you a similar question,this concerning undergrad and concerning IIT...in other words how does IIT compare in ur opinion to the top engineering schools in the US?
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<p>It's a similar question that has a similar answer. Once again, schools like MIT, Stanford, and Berkeley have far bigger worldwide brand-names than IIT does. IIT is obviously very well known within India and is starting to get better known elsewhere, but let's be honest, the brand name still does not compare to that of the top US engineering schools. Might IIT get there at some point? Sure, but it's going to be a long road. </p>
<p>Now, like I said, marketing matters less when it comes to undergraduate studies. What is more important are the job opportunities that the schools present and (if you plan to get your PhD) the research opportunities available. I think the former is yet another aspect that all American schools have over IIT. The fact is, most people who go to college do so because they want to get a job, and hence you want access to your school's career office, because that's where companies go to recruit. By going to an American school, especially a top one, you get access to top American jobs. By going to IIT, you basically get access only to Indian jobs (and a few multinationals, but those jobs will still probably be located in India). A lot of Indians would love to be able to work in the US for US pay. However, I few Americans are willing to work in India for Indian pay. Don't get me wrong. India is booming and the salaries and living standards are increasingly rapidly, but the US still has a better average standard of living. </p>
<p>In fact, historically, many IIT grads would go to US graduate engineering school (even from a no-name graduate school), and not always because they really want to get a graduate degree, but often times because they simply want access to the US job market, and studying at a US school is the way to get that access. (Similarly many of the top Indian students studied at Oxford or Cambridge to get access to the British job market). This has become less prevalent as the Indian economy has grown, creating lots of jobs back in India, but still there are many Indians who want to immigrate to the US, but comparatively few Americans who want to immigrate to India.</p>
<p>yes...........</p>
<p>okay...so its pretty similar then...thanks...</p>