<p>^Well, apparently OP’s D did need a backup plan. I didn’t need a backup plan, but I had one. You can blame the professor all you want, and it is probably justified, but that doesn’t do anything to fix the issue of not having the recommendation.</p>
<p>Yes, it was the attitude I was responding to. </p>
<p>I understand the angst but not the vitriol. I have a professional degree as well and have worked at universities. </p>
<p>The “flakey” professor has impacted your child’s future and it must be very frustrating. The only one hurt is your daughter. I suggest next time having a plan B. I know it may seem cynical and Monday morning quarterbacking but you asked for opinions. </p>
<p>If anyone hovers, it is me and I acknowledge the benefits and weaknesses since both my kids are not socially savvy. Not all hovering is bad … or good.</p>
<p>Any sort of delay is a huge red flag. I learned this in business, especially sales. A delay means either something is not being said or they do not have the “tools” to accomplish it which could be a host of things.</p>
<p>I really like the idea of a well thought out package with stamped envelope and a deadline and your daughter will pick it up to send. If you need one recommendation, send out three to four packages. The best rec may not cone from where you expect.</p>
<p>I wonder what % of recommendations asked for are actually written, flat out turned down or delayed until no longer an issue?</p>
<p>I’ve tried to stay out of this one, but am just sticking my head up to say that I occasionally ask students to send me an email to remind me about something that we are discussing after class…and it is a sincere request to help me remember to do whatever it was we were talking about. Often, in the hurly-burly of post-class discussions, things can slip my mind by the time I get back to the office. So I’d give the [otherwise flawed] prof a pass on that part of it.</p>
<p>D has already noted in her app submissions that her recommendations will be submitted online, and she’s not sure if any other means is even acceptable, but she will call the schools in the morning to see if a hard copy via mail is okay and, if so, follow the suggestion above that she offer to finalize the draft she prepared, print originals on the prof’s letterhead, get her to sign them, and mail them for her. That was a helpful idea, and we both appreciate it. Many CC heads are better than just our two.</p>
<p>stradmom, I agree that asking for a reminder is no big deal–I have done it many times myself with my employees–but asking in advance to be reminded “every couple of days” is kind of weird, and then not responding despite repeated reminders is something else entirely.</p>
<p>OP- your D has just gotten a terrific education in an important life skill.</p>
<p>Some day she’ll need an errant 1099 or other tax form so she can file on time- and it will require following up with a bank or brokerage house where the representative says, “you will have it by the end of the week” and it doesn’t arrive. Some day she’ll be applying for a job and the application will require an official transcript from her college and even though the registrar says they sent it out last week the company claims they never got it and therefore can’t review her application. Some day (probably soon) she’ll be standing outside a realtor’s office with a check in hand for first months rent and security deposit for a fantastic apartment which she needs to move into next week and she can’t because the landlord hasn’t completed the credit check, or she needs your W2 stapled to her application because she doesn’t earn enough on her own to qualify and you are her guarantor and you are out of town or having dental surgery or in the middle of a colonoscopy and therefore not near a fax machine so you can get it to her ASAP.</p>
<p>This is what happens when you become a grown up. You need to depend on other people to get stuff done and sometimes it works like clockwork and sometimes you’re the person at the post office at 11:50 on April 14th mailing in your tax return (or mailing in your extension) because some dumb form didn’t arrive on time.</p>
<p>It is very helpful to learn these lessons along the way. Always have a backup plan-- always. If your D has taken four classes a semester for four years and two semesters per year there are potentially 32 professors who could write her a recommendation. This professor may have seemed like the best option- but once the recommendation seemed stalled- clearly, that professor drops down in the ranking as “no longer best option”.</p>
<p>I sympathize with her plight, and with your aggravation. But don’t miss the opportunity to help her learn from this.</p>
<p>I myself am chasing a stupid piece of paper for my taxes, and have already filled out the extension form since by April 1 I am beginning to suspect that I won’t get that stupid piece of paper in time to file. But my aggravation is greatly reduced by having a viable plan B!</p>
<p>Bravo blossom.</p>
<p>I would just add that one of the reasons most places ask for more than one letter of recommendation is precisely because of this problem. As long as they’ve got one decent letter of recommendation, they’re good to go. Or they don’t mind if the second comes in late.</p>
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<p>That depends on the college/grad program. </p>
<p>My understanding is that the requirement for 3 recommendations is so they have 3 different academic/professionals so that there’s more of a redundancy in place against favoritism by one recommender and so they can see how a given applicant is seen by multiple evaluators in the academic and/or professional contexts.</p>
<p>Later, after your D is out of harm’s way with this particular prof, I would certainly write a letter about these events in addition to the impact of this prof’s negligence. Send it to the Dean of Students and copy it to the Dean of the Faculty. We’re always trying to teach our children that actions have real consequences in the real world. This professor needs to re-learn this lesson. Lack of professionalism resulting in harm to students’ futures should result in a material impact on this professor’s reputation and career.</p>
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<p>Wow. As probably one of the few who posted a specific example of a kid’s path to grad school, perhaps this bit of snark was deliberately aimed at me. There was no intent to create the impression of a “perfect kid” or any other of the above (laughing at the thought); simply making the point that she was informed from early on in the academic process (reference to helpful academic advisor) how competitive grad school admissions are and what must be done to make it happen, how important it is to have professors who take the mentor role seriously and how that actually can look, and lastly, that it does take a very proactive sequence of behaviors on the part of the student to put together a resume which will get the desired result.</p>
<p>As to having a backup plan, in this situation, the inescapable fact is that is exactly what was needed in the end. After numerous attempts to get the prof to do what she promised, there came a moment where there needed to be a plan B (whether it was already in the hip pocket or improvised at the 11th hour) if this application was going to get filed on time with the required LOR. One can vent and rightfully criticize the prof, but that doesn’t do anything to achieve the desired result. </p>
<p>It seems the OP’s kid was failed by the advising end of the equation as well as the mentor part of the equation, which are critical pieces. If the student had known farther in advance that faculty relationships need to be cultivated in order to get into grad school (an advising shortcoming), I imagine she would have done so. I would bet that the student will learn from this that in addition to the above, sometimes you have to advocate harder for yourself, because you will find that people flat don’t do the right thing and you have to figure out another way to get what you want if it’s that important to you.</p>
<p>Maybe the prof will come through in the end. Hope so.</p>
<p>Also post on Rate My Professors while you’re at it – again, making sure your D will not suffer retaliation (perhaps after she has graduated). Then, send a copy of your original letter to the President of the College. </p>
<p>Colleges want to see their students doing well with their grad school applications, and this prof’s behavior falls well outside the bounds of professional conduct. There will be substantive repercussions for her if you follow up appropriately – and hopefully, better treatment of students down the line.</p>
<p>Blossom, great post and right on. </p>
<p>OP, hopefully, this works, but if the professor balks, insists on taking the letter and doing the next steps herself, your DD might be right back where she was. I think getting another recommender is also in order. Something is really not right with this professor. What she is being asked to do should have been routine for her, and this has gone way to far. But right now the focus is on getting a rec out. Your DD is now going to be leading this horse to the water, but whether she’ll drink or not is not in her control. I hope this works, but do tell her she had better be ready to move quickly and get another rec if she does not have that rec signed and in her own hands to mail. Enough is enough, and she’s well past that point by now, IMO.</p>
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<p>Colleges do want to see their students doing well with their grad school applications…but also keep in mind that they also serve a gatekeeping role both for the sake of the grad student and the perceived reputation/integrity of their own institution. .<br>
Not every student…even ones with top grades may be deemed qualified for specific grad programs being applied for…especially if we’re talking an academic PhD program where there’s also concerns about a student’s level of “serious interest” in committing to the field and “collegiality”. </p>
<p>As for substantial repercussions…I wouldn’t count on it…especially if this incident took place at a research university where one’s research output/productivity and ability to gain grants tend to be overwhelmingly prioritized over undergrad teaching. </p>
<p>On the other hand, if the incident took place at an LAC or a teaching-centered university, there will be some serious consequences. </p>
<p>Moreover, if said Prof is herself well-known and respected for her research in her field and/or protected by more senior Profs who are as respected…or related fields, such a move may prove problematic when the D goes off to grad school as complaining is considered “uncollegial”. Thus, D may need to prepare for the possibility of potential fallout following her to grad school.</p>
<p>I too would be frustrated with this professor’s failure to complete her promised lor. I had a similar situation with a guidance director at s’s high school. later learned she had been diagnosed with cancer and had missed a substantial amount of work and fell behind in managing everything. understandable, although the private high school should have jumped in to provide support. </p>
<p>From what you describe this sounds to me a bit beyond unprofessional, to repeatedly agree, and repeatedly request reminder emails. red flag. I too teach at a small LAC, and other than requesting highlights from the student, it would be done as requested. Once I promised said letter to student, I would place it on my own calendar to insure it would be done in a timely manner. </p>
<p>All that said, I do think that once your d saw the deadline approaching and the repeated failures to produce by prof, your d needed to recognize the clear possibility that the prof would not come through. That small portion of the strategizing belonged to your d. I hope she can find an alternate and it isn’t too late.</p>
<p>MommaJ, my sympathies. The professor is acting shamefully. I would have your daughter send an email with an urgent flag with a subject line that says FINAL DEADLINE TODAY. The email should include the link where the letter is to be uploaded along with the draft letter, and ideally should include the professor’s prior agreement. This way the professor will have everything in one place. In the body of the email, she should say, “Thank you for agreeing to provide the recommendation, which is an essential part of my grad school application. I’m sorry to have to be a nag, but I’ve relied on your promise to provide the letter and time has now run out. I am resending the link for the uploading of the document as well as the draft that you had asked me to prepare and that was previously provided. You should have everything you need in this email to complete this task, but if there is anything else you require please let me know immediately. I will check in with you later in the day to make sure this has been sent. Professor X, it is awkward for me to have to be so persistent but I’m sure that you understand that my future depends on the delivery of the promised letter. I’ve greatly enjoyed working with you and I look forward to a productive future relationship. I will check in with you at xxxx. Best, xxx.”</p>
<p>She might also try and induce the departmental secretary or the professor’s TAs to intervene on her behalf. And THEN show up with the printed letter.</p>
<p>I don’t like doing recommendation letters so when a student asks me for one I like to get it out of the way as quickly as possible. I don’t really understand this professor’s procrastination on it.
<a href=“the%20woman%20has%20very%20limited%20office%20hours–like%20I%20said,%20lazy”>QUOTE=MommaJ</a>
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I wouldn’t use the word “lazy” in your complaints to the administration/department about her. </p>
<p>Also wondering what you think is a reasonable number of office hours per week and how hers compare to that?</p>
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<li><p>Professor was wrong for stringing your daughter along.</p></li>
<li><p>Daughter was wrong for waiting this long before looking for an alternative professor to write a recommendation.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>50-50 blame on both of parties involved.</p>
<p>Not excusing the professor, but is it possible there may be another explanation (personal/family issues, whatever) other than “laziness”? Agree that the professor should have told dau if she was unable to write the LOR, but agree, the dau should have stayed on top of the deadline and had a plan B.</p>
<p>I could not agree more with the last statement, my sister had to ask 4 professors and all of them had to be constantly reminded. What goes around comes around :P</p>
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<p>One thing I found common among folks in the educational field is that it sometimes attracts touchy-feely people pleasers who have a hard time saying no and tend to be conflict-adverse in the extreme. </p>
<p>This professor’s actions seem to fit possible symptoms of such types of teachers my HS and college classmates have encountered during their HS/college years. </p>
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<p>Exactly!</p>
<p>OP is right to be angry at the OP for being flaky. Unfortunately, as another commenter noted, this is a good learning experience as there are plenty of flaky people in this world…and they’re not limited to the Ivory Tower. </p>
<p>Don’t get a legal mediator acquaintance started on the flakiness of lawyers or some parties from the business world during court ordered mediation sessions. :(</p>
<p>Moreover, it’s also an occupational hazard in the creative arts world as plenty of musician and artist friends have recounted from their own bitter experiences.</p>