This prof is infuriating!

Parents Forum
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<p>Momma- hopefully by now the issue has been resolved and your D is on her way to grad school with a completed application in the mail.</p>

<p>If not- you can help her break out of some very common post-adolescent thinking where a kid doubles down on an idea or plan that is clearly not working. One BF or GF; one college; one career; one grad school; that’s it and if it doesn’t happen it’s a calamity and my life is over. Your D has surely invested way more in this one recommendation than it’s worth. So you still have time to set her on a more clear thinking path. You are both justifiably angry about this professor- but getting your D into a grad program is likely more important than any revenge fantasies (or even speculating about how such a flake could end up with an important job) could possibly be worth.</p>

<p>So model for your D how to get what you want in life by not getting bogged down in other people’s self-destructive habits. Move on. Plan B. Next professor in the queue… any recommendation at this point will be more valuable than a self-written/self stamped one that your D has authored and that has a barely legible signature scrawl at the bottom. And perhaps it can be a dean and not a professor? Or a department chair who can attest to your D’s overall reputation as a student and person of fine integrity?</p>

<p>But let this go (or congrats if it’s been resolved) since both of you seem to be beating the same dead horse for quite some time!</p>

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This has no basis in fact. None. It simply hasn’t worked this way in a decade or more.</p>

<p>Mommaj, I am very sorry you are going through this, but I would like to thank you for posting because my D will be going through the application process for grad school next year and your experience and the advice you have received has been very informative. I hope that things somehow work out for your daughter.</p>

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<p>I have told my daughter many times the cautionary tale of my own college experience, which featured being unable to secure a letter of recommendation because my professors didn’t know who I was.</p>

<p>I have implored her to make herself known to her professors, which I believe she has been doing.</p>

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<p>Agreed. While one does not need to be a social butterfly, one also cannot be too quiet/passive to the point all they do is drop in/out of class, rarely/never attend office hours, etc. </p>

<p>As for this being like networking, kinda but not the same. IME, it’s much easier to get Profs to know you than to network in the working world. </p>

<p>One major stumbling block is that most Profs, classmates, and other folks students are likely to meet tend to be much more open to and willing to help the student. IME, it’s not too far removed from putting yourself out there to make friends socially whereas that’s not so much the case with professional networking. </p>

<p>Moreover, the socializing feels much more natural and organic in the college setting whereas many professional networking events feel much more stiff and artificial IME. </p>

<p>Closest thing to the college experience after college/grad school would be HS/college alum get-togethers where it combines the best parts of the college setting and professional networking without as much stiffness or artifice. </p>

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<p>I’d only recommend this if the student seeking the rec has established a meaningful relationship with the department chair/Dean by having them as a Prof for class and doing what I outlined in a previous post or from working closely with them for at least a semester so they really know her as a unique individual to facilitate writing a meaningful rec. </p>

<p>Otherwise, it’s likely to end up being a pro-forma tepid rec by default because they may not know enough about the student concerned to write a meaningful rec that will be genuinely helpful. </p>

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<p>Not true. I witnessed plenty of instances of newly hired inexperienced paralegals getting scolded or bluntly told by Partners, Senior Associates, and/or Case Managers that “It’s not our responsibility to organize deposition files to be produced to opposing counsel”. </p>

<p>Heck, I was given such a scolding in my second week at a NYC biglaw firm when they felt I was making the same mistake with some digital computer files and told “We’re responsible for producing the files…it’s their responsibility to organize it to make heads or tails of it…not ours.” </p>

<p>This all took place less than a decade ago. </p>

<p>Moreover, from what I hear from a highly experienced mediator acquaintance who does mediation for the Federal courts in the NYC area, this practice still happens with cases he mediates in the present. </p>

<p>It’s nearly always the bigger firm using their greater size and greater staffing resources to overwhelm the opposing smaller firm/solo practitioner with deposition materials.</p>

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It doesn’t work this way, unless you are using the terms incorrectly. But that is irrelevant to this conversation, which was clearly very important to mommaj.</p>

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<p>Did I miss something in the above posts, or has someone previously commented on the nastiness of the OP? It seems like the daughter asked the professor for the favor or honor of having the professor write her a recommendation. The professor wasn’t obligated or paid to do so. If the professor failed to honor her promise, then I would view her as a human being, like myself, who has disappointed friends and clients in the past. Perhaps the daughter could learn a lesson from this. But calling the professor lazy, inept, unprofessional, and implying she is a liar or mentally imbalanced (alzheimers) is just plain mean. The OPs daughter is old enough to learn that not everyone keeps her promises. Everyone has a hard life. We’re all dealing with financial issues, health issues, death, children, elderly parents, and other burdens. The OP had no knowledge of why the professor choose to not to come through for her daughter. What a wasted opportunity to teach compassion, forgiveness, and fortitude to the daughter.</p>

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<p>50ishwoman, I don’t think the OP was nasty. It’s reasonable to think that if someone has promised something repeatedly (not just once) and has asked for and received reminders over a long stretch of time that she would deliver. And it’s reasonable to be very angry about it if this person doesn’t follow through on their promise. </p>

<p>I think it would have been prudent for the daughter to have chalked this up a long time ago and moved on to another potential LOR writer. However, in NO WAY does the prof get a pass here. Very, extremely unprofessional. If she had a conflict, she could have at least told the young lady a LOOOONG time ago.</p>

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Please tell us what dept of American University this peach of a professor is in!</p>

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<p>Cromette: I agree, the professor dropped the ball and should have bowed out of her promise as soon as she found out she couldn’t fulfill it. But I don’t believe she deserved to be called names (lazy, beyotch, unprofessional, etc). I think the OP needs to remember when she has fallen short in the past also. When did we all get to be so perfect?</p>

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<p>While I don’t agree with the idea of students feeling entitled to Professorial recs or saying the Prof is bound to do so because "I pay her salary, I also don’t agree with the touchy-feely “forgive the flake because he/she’s human”. I find that quite odd considering most people I know…especially those from the older generations regard flakiness…especially to this degree to be an indication of a serious character flaw in the areas of common courtesy and straightforward honest dealings. </p>

<p>If one makes promises they can’t keep, the least they should do is apologize, try their utmost to make amends, and be understanding when those who suffered as a result of flakiness are exceedingly angry at them. </p>

<p>They certainly have no right to ask for forgiveness when they’re the ones who screwed up and for anyone to believe they do is IMO another example of an entitlement mentality. </p>

<p>The OP is right to be angry about the Prof being exceedingly flaky not only because it’s causing serious problems with her D, but also because IT IS UNPROFESSIONAL and IMHO…wrong ethically. </p>

<p>Moreover, while I may appear to be sympathetic about the flakiness…I am simply explaining that the educational profession is one which tends to attract touchy-feely personalities who are so conflict-adverse that they don’t know how to say no straightforwardly when it’s necessary. Hence, my practical advice that if one encounters a Prof/teacher who gives off any indication of flakiness…to immediately find another recommender without such tendencies.</p>

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<p>^^^There is a whole lot of middle ground between being perfect and a complete flake. I agree the OP was harsh, but the professor has earned a lot of her scorn.</p>

<p>I imagine her daughter will eventually get over it and think of her more charitably when it’s not so raw.</p>

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<p>Lazy? Who knows. It appeared that way, but as you said, we don’t know the circumstances.</p>

<p>Unprofessional - WITHOUT A DOUBT. Everything about that whole thing was completely and totally unprofessional. Shockingly so.</p>

<p>The other word I object to, and didn’t see.</p>

<p>In any case, I understand the anger and frustration and name-calling. I don’t think it was particularly nasty. I viewed it as someone who was justifiably angry venting (hmmm…sounds familiar to another thread), and a reasonable reaction.</p>

<p>Nobody’s perfect. But you have to understand that when one does things that are admittedly irresponsible and unprofessional and mishandles situations so completely that it has a HUGE impact on others, anger and venting are pretty normal human reactions to be expected.</p>

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<p>“Nobody’s perfect. But you have to understand that when one does things that are admittedly irresponsible and unprofessional and mishandles situations so completely that it has a HUGE impact on others, anger and venting are pretty normal human reactions to be expected.”</p>

<p>I totally agree. Well said. It takes a long time to learn how to accept others’ irresponsibility and to learn not to let others bad behavior affect your soul. After more than 50 years, I’m still trying every day!</p>

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<p>I don’t blame MammaJ for being upset. I would be too. But at this point, the rec is the crucial issue and the DD has to get one. I still would bail from that nutsy prof even though she might the best choice of the bunch WITHOUT her problems. The problems are a deal breaker in that area.</p>

<p>My friend was upset when his DS needed prof recs his first year and was sure they didn’t know him at all. He was at Harvard. But when he asked, each prof told him to give an outline of what he felt should be in the rec, info on the program and the actual request for the ref and where to send it. They wrote the refs and he got into the programs. They apparently were on the ball and knew exactly how to do this even though they did not know the student personally the way the classes are run. They just knew how things worked.</p>

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<p>Yes, 50ishwoman. It’s best for the offended to choose not to be offended (for their own sake). But it’s not always an easy task.</p>

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<p>Re: the request to remind her with hourly emails: This professor is obviously in the middle of some sort of crisis and neglecting to provide the recommendation letter is probably not the only professional responsibility that she has neglected. Thus, this professor is probably being bombarded with emails demanding immediate attention and the professor realizes that she is more likely to comply with those obligations that are at the top of her inbox. I’m grateful when someone says email me every hour; they are in effect giving me permission to nag them. Make sure to tell your daughter that every time she sends a new email to make sure everything the professor needs is included in each email (link to upload, draft letter, etc.). You don’t want the professor to have to hunt for anything she needs to complete the task. </p>

<p>In my job, I often have to rely on others to provide things that I need but where providing the assistance is of no benefit to them. Getting then to agree to provide the requested information/documents etc. is the easy part. Actually getting them to comply with the agreement is something else entirely. Most of the time, people end up complying with their promises but only at the very last minute after much drama similar to that described by OP. I’ve learned that documenting the agreement in writing (ie in a confirming email), following up with an insane amount of persistence, guilt-tripping the person based on my reliance on their agreement, and making it as easy as possible to comply with my request is the best way to get this kind of thing done. And, as MommaJ has pointed out here, there often are no reasonable back-ups (although you obviously should have those lined up if possible). </p>

<p>So, although the professor is acting shamefully, her behavior is not all that uncommon when it comes to requests that are important to the asker but not to the person granting the request.</p>

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<p>Why accept their irresponsibility…especially if they’re ostensibly older adults? </p>

<p>IME, it’s ideally far better to keep them at extreme arm’s length socially and professionally as flakes tend to be a serious drag for anyone who is unfortunate enough to associate with them. </p>

<p>Granted, that’s not always easy to do considering flakes are an occupational hazard in certain fields such as the creative arts/music fields as my artist, actor, and musician friends can all relate with their countless horror stories with flakes in their fields.</p>

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<p>“Why accept their irresponsibility…especially if they’re ostensibly older adults?”</p>

<p>Because your life gets a lot easier when you accept that you can’t control others’ behavior. People act the way they do and it usually doesn’t have anything to do with you. As you say, flakes are flakes. Accept their irresponsibility, forgetfullness and how they hurt you, and move on. Don’t let their bad behavior influence your good behavior.</p>

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<p>Cobrat,</p>

<p>REsponsible Fine Arts majors that have at least a little bit of left brain strength tend to anticipate such things and have more grace for them and have usually already thought of “another way”…just because they know the stereotype and why it exists, and have probably been burned before. ;)</p>

<p>My D definitely has a few of those horror stories. Some of them seriously heart-breaking.</p>

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<p>Worst stories I’ve heard were from friends in gigging indie rock bands. Their answer after putting up with the flake initially due to their inexperience was to fire the flaky bandmember ASAP. </p>

<p>One thing which always boggles my mind is how the fired flakes always felt they were “wronged” and that they deserved perpetual second chances. I’m talking folks who not only missed scheduled band practices they’ve agreed to…but no-showing at actual well-paying gigs they’ve agreed to do. :(</p>

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<p>Wonder if that includes keeping flakes at extreme arm’s length, ending friendships with those who burned myself or friends/family, and refusing any subsequent requests from said flakes for assistance.</p>