<p>Here it is, although only up to 2008. You should take a look at page 6, which completely knocks out your theory about urban schools and the Top 10% rule. The percentage of UT students from urban schools actually went down since 1997. The percentage of students from suburban schools actually stayed flat.
Also, the average SAT for UT students has actually gone up 10-20 points on CR and Math. Take a look at the common data sets for the last 10 years.
I’m just a community college kid trying to get into UT, so feel free to do some follow-up research to check my work.</p>
<p>I disagree. The 6-10% don’t just rule out UT because they may not be auto-admitted. If that is true then the same would exist for A&M saying the 10-25% go elsewhere because they are not auto-admitted.</p>
<p>Out of our HS for the last few years top students did attend UT from every class. Interestingly though none chose A&M. Possibly just an anomaly.</p>
<p>UT freshmen class is more than 7000 students.
NMF number is too insignificant to have any impact on the quality of UT student population (or A&M, or any other big public university)</p>
<p>UT Austin is not going to teach only rich and privileged from subdivisions with minimum free/reduced lunch recipients. No rank or prestige or whatever is worth social unrest and instability in the state.</p>
<p>So, what was the cut off in 2008? I believe it was top 10%. Right now it is top 7%. So, where did that 3% go? </p>
<p>Now, another poster has already shared how 80% of the top 1.5% of a highly competitive high school went to private universities even though these kids would have been auto admitted to UT. This is what I suspect typically happens at most highly competitive schools. So, I am asking if the the UT cut off moves from 10% to 5%, firstly where will the top 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5.1% students from these highly competitive schools go who will not be auto admitted to UT? Finally, where will the top 1.5 to 5% go when 80% of the top 1.5% already go to privates even though they are auto admitted? I am suggesting a significant number between 1.5% to 5% will also go to privates, leaving very few to attend UT from these top schools. I think this is already happening and what we are seeing in the numbers at A&M. </p>
<p>I am hearing people here talking about how the admit rate is so much higher at A&M and how it accepts the top 25% vs UT’s low acceptance rate and how it only accepts the top 7%. However, the difference in SAT is negligible. So, there is obviously something going on that some of you are missing. I am suggesting that as the cut off has changed from 10% to 7% it could be that many from these top schools are heading to A&M and +vely impacting the averages.</p>
<p>The stats are conveniently available. In addition, it takes about 215+ on the PSAT to become a Finalist in TX, so it is a proxy for how many high scoring SAT kids are present in a class when we examine stats for a school. It helps distinguish between high performing high schools (Bellaire, Memorial, Seven Lakes, Cinco Ranch, Clements etc in the Houston area that you mentioned) and the what you called the average middle class suburban schools such as, Cy-Ridge, Cy Springs, Cy Lakes, Hastings, Elskin etc type of schools. (We may differ on the definition of middle class suburban, but I am using your definition). Generally it is these kids who end up becoming National AP scholars etc and also head to top privates.</p>
<p>Ya Ya, National Achievement Scholarships are for African Americans. </p>
<p>The total number of National Merit Semifinalists is about 16,000 in the country- a figure that is very close to the enrollment number at the Ivies, Stanford, MIT, Caltech, Amherst and Williams type of schools.</p>
<p>National Merit semifinalists represent about the top 1% of students in a state. So, in the average high school class of 500 there should be about 5 of them.</p>
<p>You keep saying there is no real difference in SAT scores between UT and A&M. A&M’s average SAT score is 1683. UT’s 50% midrange is 1690 to 2040, with an average of 1859. A&M’s CR+Math average is 1220, almost a 100 points lower than UT’s average.</p>
My younger son will probably fall into that catagory. He would not want to go to A&M even if he was an auto admit. I wish I could force him to look into school such as A&M. LOL!</p>
<p>I did a little bit of research on NMSF by high schools in Texas. There’s a lot more than five per school, especially at large suburban schools and private schools. (I went to a prep school in New England).</p>
<p>And the top public university for number of Merit Scholars, with over 700, and in the top ten of all universities? Not Berkeley, and not Michigan. It’s those Sooners from Oklahoma!
[National</a> Merit](<a href=“Honors & National Merit”>http://www.ou.edu/go2/nationalmerit.html)</p>
<p>There seems to be some confusion about the term ‘National Merit Scholars’. There are two categories: those selected from the ranks of the NMS Finalists by the NM Scholarship Corporation and those finalists who are awarded scholarships by colleges and universities. UT no longer offers automatic scholarships to NM Finalists in the way that colleges like A&M, Arizona State, Nebraska, and Oklahoma do.</p>
<p>I would suggest that he go after his dream school and apply to UT. If he gets CAP’ed then he should attend UTA or some other affiliated school, earn a 3.2 and get into UT, his dream school as a sophomore.If he has a goal, he will work harder and feel motivated. I am not arguing that A&M is a better school than UT, so I am not going to tell you that your son is making some grave mistake. Kids are kids, they have friends who are going to certain schools and they should attend the schools that make them comfortable. Now, if there was some incredible difference in the quality of the two schools where attending one and not the other would make a significant difference in graduate school or job opportunities, I would say something. However, in this case you don’t have to worry. UT is a great school with some outstanding programs that are ranked higher than A&M. For example BHP at McCombs that I have mentioned before.</p>
<p>That is the average for the state, Redwing. NMSC takes the total number of students graduating in a state and determines a cut off that will allow the top 0.5% to become National Merit semifinalists. So, if 200,000 students graduate in TX, the cut off for TX will allow 1,000 National Merit Semifinalists in TX. Since everyone who graduates does not take the PSAT in Texas, National Merit semifinalists represent about the top 1%.</p>
<p>UT does not offer sponsorships, instead it offers 40 acre merit scholarships to about 40 or 50 students and it gets about the same number of NM scholars. So, it is buying its scholars just like A&M. It is just buying fewer. However, I don’t think I would hold that against A&M or UT. You get what you pay for. </p>
<p>In addition, having a corporate sponsor rather than a college sponsor does not make one a better scholar. NMF kids who attend A&M generally do not pursue corporate sponsors because they know they will get sponsored by A&M. UT, NMFs who do not get NMSC scholarships have an incentive to pursue corporate scholarships if they want to earn the title. So, if their parents work for a company that can sponsor, they try to get their child sponsored. So, if a NMF at UT did not become a scholar it was because they did not care about becoming a scholar or did not find a corporate sponsor.</p>
<p>Since many of these are from a top performing school and accustomed to challenges I don’t think they will just take the easy way out and go to where they are auto-admit. Your logic is still flawed. See my post above. These kids do get admitted, just under review.</p>
<p>As long as A&M’s average SAT scores are not catching up to UTs in spite of the fact that UT is bigger and growing faster; and as long as UT maintains an average SAT score about 180 above A&Ms (60 pts per section) then I think you could make such arguments. However, I do not think these hold true anymore. What is your explanation for the change? thanks</p>
<p>I re-read everything about NM and found out that</p>
<ol>
<li>Nobody knows how many NM FINALISTS are in Texas</li>
<li>Nobody provided the cut score for NM FINALISTS. So I believe nobody knows it.</li>
<li>There is a lot of SPECULATION where and why this UNKNOWN number of NM Finalists went and why, and some wild speculations about importance of this issue for UT.</li>
</ol>
<p>Does anyone dare to replace the bottom 57 freshmen at UT with lowest SAT scores with 57 students with NM Finalist cut scores and see if there is any big change in statistics for a student body of 7000? :D</p>
<p>SAT is just a standardized test of your ability to answer questions correctly under the time stress.
Some very intelligent students who cannot work well under time stress will never show perfect result even if they can show it without that time stress.
Some not very intelligent students can hire a private tutor or take a preparatory course, memorize the list of words, practice the same math problems (up to Algebra 2 level) for several months, and if they are working well under time stress they will make it.
Collegeboard makes sure that there is a limited number of students with perfect scores and certain number of students in different score ranges modifying the test and trying to keep the numbers flat.</p>
<p>All this “significance” of NM (finalists, scholars, I am not sure who) for a 50,000 student body is really “much ado about nothing”</p>
<p>Exactly, and those who feel that way about the SAT should continue to promote UT over A&M. UT has the market cornered on Class Rank. Although, those who do not have the right class rank can always get in with CAP in sophomore year.</p>
<p>Those who feel that SAT is a better indicator than class rank do not have such a clear cut choice anymore. The Math + CR has been improving at A&M and the gap between the schools seems statistically insignificant now (less than 60 points). Counter intuitively, this is happening as the class rank cut off has improved at UT from top 10 to top 7%, but remains steady at top 10% at A&M. I am just providing a reasonable explanation for why it might be happening. If you have a better explanation then share it. Thanks.</p>